~Player Made Quests and Their Structures in Feelings~

Discussion in 'Quests & Lore' started by Time Lord, Oct 5, 2016.

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  1. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    Time Lord, finally had time to read the entire thread. Whew. This touches on so many concepts I fear your intentions may get lost. So I will try to tease out one small part here for comment.

    The phrase I quoted is important. In that gamer psychology or maybe let's keep it simpler, gamer preferences, come into play. With all the games out there these days, solo and MMO, and the whole wide world of things to do besides, I don't buy the complaints you encountered. Sure they may not enjoy just bashing monsters. (Or bathing them haha! BORING!) But there is SOMETHING they enjoy that is keeping them there. Maybe it's the desire to get the reward of leveling, maybe they want to be ranked higher than others, maybe it's that they simply have invested too much time and they don't want to give it up. These players always need to be asked, "Then why do you keep playing it?" If they stopped, and the MMO's player numbers dropped, the MMO and the larger industry might have to adjust. But there is no need with people willing to "complain" and keep playing. We get grindy MMO after grindy MMO. Something keeps them there... is it ego? I don't think you can necessarily say that.

    So what does keep people playing non-Cthulu games? Because games are designed first and foremost to be entertainment. Some people encounter things in real that terrify them and they don't like to encounter it in their entertainment. Call of Cthulu was not the best selling novel ever. Nor was Darkest Dungeon the highest seller ever. People enjoy being heroes, being the king, happy endings, being in control of their surroundings as an escape from real. They want their egos stroked, and sometimes, that's not a bad thing. Life can be hell. Gaming has given many, as you know, as sense of self and liberation that they could not get in other arenas. Reminding us of our smallness in games is not for all or even a majority. In fact, it can be downright dangerous for some people. We cannot survive without some level of achievement and affirmation in their lives. I promised to stay away from psychology so I will stop there!

    Cthulu can be a component of thoughtful gaming, but it is not the only one. It is not even the end goal that maximizes every player's experiences. The things that are non-Cthulu can't be thrown into the realm of the selfish sense of "ego", any more than saying people who like to play card games are egomaniacs. No, there is entertainment on many levels. The simple joy of figuring out a logic puzzle does not do injustice to questing or gaming or self or anyone else. You can't only emphasize our need to enjoy what is outside ourselves by diminishing our sense of ourselves. Both are important and both are real.

    As a side note: the examples of forum things you mentioned were not Cthulu in the sense that they were not realities that cannot be grasped and remain unaffected by others. They were changed sometimes in light of players who knew well what was going on. That is not Cthulu. I have no opinion on whether that was justified or not... just saying, not everything can be put under that classification.
     
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  2. Kambrius

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    You make great points, but the way I look at it, separate Kickstarters for each subsequent episode (if there's such a plan for them) seems iffy. To me, it seems that it is the add-on store that will sustain the funding efforts. The way the model is set up seems like it's a necessary evil. If it was a 'baked in' service such as with STO and Neverwinter Online, that would be cool, but those came out before those games went F2P.

    Also, I would imagine building a cool quest scene would be easier as a collaborative effort, so, say if a few folks got together to purchase a scene space (cloned or not) and worked on it by populating it with NPCs, event triggers, quest objects, mobs, etc. using asset and programming tools that come with the purchase of a scene, then that's a cost that is shared and possibly promotes the longevity of the game while further progress on the episodes continues by the Devs.

    What @Time Lord mentioned in the above post about tools is exactly what I was envisioning. Purchasable asset packs, NPC packs, monster packs would be good too and would help towards generating a lot of interesting content that would further enrich this game. I think through spotlights and contests sponsored by Portalarium with awards in store credits and/or asset packs, scenes will help offset the initial cost. Raffles similar to the deed system we have now would also help offset the cost.
     
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  3. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    Hey @Vyrin 's here :D Hey Vyrin :)
    So, those guys in the internet café, they were players with opinions and to me any opinion is a good and justified opinion from anyone who made the opinion, because to them, this was from what their own view what they perceived as truths for their enjoyments. I may not agree with their opinion, yet I must allow myself to accept that from their own point of view, it was what truth was to them. Now, we can say that their opinions needed a perception change, but that's seeing something from another's point of view, which could change their minds through motivation, but it's what brought them to their own opinion that matters. They were mostly playing a "team game" where all the motive was to zen out and bash monsters on their heads...
    Hmm... it looks like after a few beers my dyslexia can get the better of me... but you know what, I never caught that, but hearing you point it out got me thinking of that Video the Cavers put out one Christmas throwing the snowballs at the troll on the bridge o_O... That looked like they were having a blast :D!' So now I'm trying to think how much fun it might be "bathing" a monster on the head o_O hmm... it's got me thinking :p
    Everyone would naturally agree that being a hero is fun, yet with no contrast, the most wonderful field of flowers can get fairly boring after a few millennia.
    But I don't understand you at all here with this statement o_O because psy is what feelings are all about. That may be coming from a false assumption on your part or some misunderstanding on my part, but I've been in some of the most challenging psy there is in the world which had direct consequences. Many times in the world we assume that we are all the same and have the same feelings all in the same way, or that there's some wrong way or right way to having feelings, yet the feelings are there none the less, no matter if we, from our individual standpoint believe them to be valid or not.
    What you say here is a comfort zone statement, if that comfort zone is changed outside of it's feeling of safety, then priorities and perceptions in your psy can change.

    Cthulhu can also be something like this picture;
    [​IMG]Cthulhu is a presence that has ultimate power far beyond your own which invokes a feeling. We could believe that this Cthulhu is something we could feel good about being around, unless we're a flying monkey o_O... Then that perception can change with drastic consequences. This Cthulhu could also change, because we have no control over it, it's only from our assumptions that it couldn't change if it wanted to, or from outside laws which we may not be able to understand, because we ourselves are not a Cthulhu. Cthulu is something we can't understand, has ultimate power from our point of powerless view and invokes mystery in everything it might do. We in sota live in a Cthulhu world where the one Cthulhu we know is here, or suspect is here, is our Oracle, because we can only assume we understand her. Cthulhu provides mystery and only our preconceived assumptions empower us to feel secure, when we are anything but secure. The only security we have of this one in this picture, is the thought that she just seemingly saved us. We can only assume things from what they may seem that we are powerless to truly perceive, because only the Cthulhu actually knows what power a Cthulhu has and what laws it of the universe it may follow.

    I can guarantee you that walking into a crowd of 12-16 year olds holding loaded AK-47s feels a whole lot different walking through them than the Cthulhu in the picture would feel doing the same. This is that exact feeling those Thailand players you may feel as disqualified to feel the way that they do wish they had in their game, which is mystery and something that's untouchably powerful and possibly foreboding o_O...
    ~Time Lord~:)
     
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  4. Time Lord

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    ~Mental Challenge~
    How could this be best be used in a quest o_O?...
     
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  5. Vyrin

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    Time Lord, thanks for taking the time to respond. I have a few things to help you keep the discussion going here... at least it gives it a thread bump!

    What I was saying is that the contrast is provided by most people's lives. Very few get to experience being a great hero outside of gaming. It's appealing in games because of that. Games are not as closed a system as they seem, but weave into and out of people's lives. I think from earlier statements you understand that. But yes, I agree that even the field of gaming needs variety. BUT a critical point is that not everyone NEEDS Cthulu. It has a proper place in the tapestry, and yes it can evoke great feelings in games. It is not an absolute good, because for some it can be a real turn-off, and not just because they want to remain in their "comfort zone".

    Think of my statement more as taking a bite rather than shoving a whole pizza into my mouth. It is not outside my comfort zone to eat pizza or even shove it into my mouth, but I find it more enjoyable to go a bite at a time.

    I certainly don't assume people have feelings in the same way, and that's why I say Cthulu is not for everyone.

    There are deep things going on in the tension between selfhood and otherness in Cthulu. Cthulu is a dramatic device to explore that tension, but has limitations and yes, even criticisms that can be leveled against it as a device, like any other device. But I find a forum like this so inadequate in getting into those discussions.

    You really misjudge my sentiment here. I do not feel their experience is disqualified, I said they hadn't fully expressed their experience. That is the value of "why" questions. I fully accept that they find bashing monsters boring. I accept that they may even be saying, "I want Cthulu." But as any good psych person would know, there's more to the story here. And that's what I find interesting to understand rather than just saying everything can be solved with a Cthulu experience. Maybe they want mystery that can be investigated and figured out, a different device than Cthulu. But who knows until we ask them more questions and treat them as individual gamers.

    But here's the real point at this point... maybe you can say more about why *you* are trying to cast everything into Cthulu meta-narratives. If Cthulu is realy Cthulu, it doesn't need a defender. And yes even Cthulu can be Cthulu'd. But sometime Cthulu is not really Cthulu, it's just a big, slimy squid that really should be cleaned up and taken out.
     
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  6. Time Lord

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    To me, assuming I or we know anything about what a general public "from all places" may or may not feel, is an assumption. yet there are examples which invoke universal feeling, "which need no explanation or assumptions".

    I guess I should be asking, "what does this have to do with increasing quest?" Have you any quest experiences that you can share with us?

    :rolleyes: That's what these players of the conference in question were saying and why they were saying it. "They wanted compelling quest through mystery" and not any change of perception through some personal explanation of why they should like or dislike something. They also didn't need anyone telling them they needed to enjoy what they have.

    Terminology of what you or I perceive as Cthulhu or our individual understanding of mystery can differ, but that's not aiding us understand anything more about how best to construct quests which have deeper meaning or holding the interest of the player.

    We can both slice up what words mean when "we or the individual says all day long", but we need to better our quests and this is how we do it, through mysteries.

    You are a good story writer... or you have wanted to become one which we all do, even if you're Steven King or Tracy Hickman. How we then can transition your writing into a compelling quest in meaningful lasting ways is all about bringing uniqueness to the seeker, or it's just a story which every NPC encountered then is just another page turned in that book, instead of a rewarding the seeker with something more than our writing abilities. Quests are different than that, they most provide a puzzlement to the adventure which can then have the experience much more meaningful than turning your book's page.

    We must transition from story telling to quest. Sometimes that may involve abandoning the script and staring with the questing mechanics available to us, which is a difficult thing to identify if we are to put out something that is truly unique and held the seekers attention in a more involved way.

    Here's an opening to one of my past and future quests, which you may wish to bring something here just as I have to see it's differing elements, yet it was first made to fit a questing mechanic and not taking a story and adapting it, which is one of the things I'm working on now to adapt it here to our SOTA;

    This is from a Quest I call, "Time in a Bottle", By Time Lord:

    Stranded on a coastline in the barren waists of an abysmal beach, I press my heart within this bottle in hopes beloved's hands it reach. My castaway soul has met it's keeper's will, across the waters, near the breakers, where good and evil kill. The shape of time in-which I'm thine, has cast my heart adrift, while it's stranded I am, while through my hand, short sands of time doth sift. Lost am I as I sit upon it's sands, a lost man in time forgotten left for not, in the god's forsaken land. Fore it's by bandits I crossed and now I watch as they make their way, with all of my life passing them with each of the ocean's waves. It's fitting now that I should look once more into eyes as beautiful as thine, as I stare into death's doorway, abandon in the waists of time. Beautiful dragon doth come for me now, while my arrows lay in a murderer's fleas. I could pry them out, but t'would only delay thy loveliness's feast. Come for me now as I am forgotten within your arms I prey, fore death is my cradle and I in love, in your beauty's death I lay. Forgotten for your love I'll sleep, as I cork my hearts content, looking into eyes so beautiful as thine, in a dragon's love I commit. No more love have I left to give or coddle, as I press my heart's release, within this bottle.
    Forgive me my beloved, all else is silent...

    :rolleyes: Do you see any mystery in there? Did it make you feel anything that lingered?

    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  7. Vyrin

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    A lot. From your first post, you seem to be trying to cast everything into a Cthulu meta-narrative, even discussions that have taken place in the forum. That's what I was responding to first, and which I think you understand. But there is no need to belabor that point.

    Let's just say that questing always involves some sense of mystery, or at the very least uncertainty, and the feelings it invokes. Cthulu is one way, standard fantasy adventuring, a la Lord of the Rings, is another. I'm all for Cthulu-style questing, but I have enjoyed so many different styles in so many different games it would be hard to catalog. Evoking feelings is something we can agree on.

    Again, let me state clearly I wasn't saying anyone needed to be told anything. What I wanted to do was understand them more and better so that what they truly wanted could surface. Is it not curious to you that people who complain a game is boring keep playing it? Wouldn't you want to know why? Not to tell them what they should or shouldn't do, but to get to what is going on at a deeper level? If you don't understand them at that deeper level, you're not going to create something they enjoy! Please don't say again that I was trying to invalidate their experience or tell them what they should enjoy, that is patently false, and my intent was exactly the opposite.

    I hope to see this more fleshed out into some quest in the future!

    They are two different media, but make no mistake, writing/reading can evoke deep feeling. The only difference between the two is that questing is more interactive, but that doesn't make one or the other more inherently meaningful. But I do get what you're trying to say, that quests should be meaningful. A lot can be learned from the craft of storytelling, and needs to be learned, because there is not as much on the "craft" of questing.

    I would say a way forward is not to talk about a particular device like Cthulu or standard fantasy tropes, but to consider the elements of fiction as a basis for starting to talk about how to develop good quests. Some standard elements you will see in the lists are things like: Character, Plot, Setting, Point of View, Theme, Style. Maybe I would add a unique one for questing called, "Options", or the choices the player can make and the response of the quest to those choices. All these must be well-designed to evoke a strong experience. What we can't control is the type of experience someone has (people respond in different ways), but designing these elements thoughtfully and well gets you there. It can seem a little more technical getting into the details like this, but it really does get you to where you want to go. For example, many great authors tell you that the process of writing starts with creating characters and then listening to the stories they tell you. I don't have much experience with that, but the point is you can start with a really cool character, or some great theme, or conflict, you don't necessarily have to start with a mechanic.
     
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  8. Time Lord

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    "its large tentacles reach out of the still waters beside the west-gate of Khazad-dum and grasp Frodo in the dark"
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    I think this is where we are differing, you see things from a story writers perspective and I may see thing from more of a gaming perspective where story can and does change with almost every turn in decision making the seeker may choose. One is very static, while the other is more pliable and able to be changed by the seeker. This is the opposite view of completing the story before the quest has begum to be then adapted as a quest, where that storyline has a predicable outcome because of the storyline's constraints.

    Quests are like a (sorry to use the term again) Cthulhu, because no matter what branch in decision one takes from a story which has multiple consequence to it's ending, they all lead back to other branches where possibly useful things may have been disregarded because of the decisions the seeker had made.

    I'm never saying that you're wrong in the ways you choose to write your own quests, I'm just saying that there's "allot more out there" which could provide a creative mind like yours and mine, some alternative ways for better quest creations.

    Here's a video I'll be using in one of my own quest creations which may provide a sense of where some quest maker in my style may be able to take the seeker.
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...the-day-whats-yours.43823/page-67#post-678476

    I know there's common ground here we can find to possibly working together, "everyone" and come to a possible new level of interactive quest design. The works of the one, are never as great as the works of the many, unless those many are individuals and not working as a team... "which is why I'm glad someone like @Vyrin , "a good writer", is with us here on our better questing discussion thread :)!'
    You really did think I was welcoming him here to troll him did you o_O?'... Cthulhu :cool: Even in lord of the Rings;

    "We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. They were not made by Durin’s folk, Gimli son of Glóin. Far, far below the deepest delving of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he. Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day. In that despair my enemy was my only hope, and I pursued him, clutching at his heel. Thus he brought me back at last to the secret ways of Khazad-dûm: too well he knew them all. Ever up now we went, until we came to the Endless Stair."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  9. Time Lord

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    One of the things I always find within those who fear, is that they never rose up from their fears and faced them which only the brave do. Just as any child awakes from their sleep and believes there's a monster that lives in their closet, it's only the parent that can then encourage them to rise up out of the bed, face the door and open it which reveals only that it was the fear alone with nothing to fear there at all.

    Our SOTA is one of the safest environments there could ever be in gaming, where absolutely nothing can actually harm you or your character unless you option or choose for it to happen. Yet my work here always suffers from those who are frightened that something actually could happen here which would offend them, even when such material is rated (G).
    [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] afraid of Cthulhu...
     
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  10. Womby

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    Branching in quests is in theory a great and powerful mechanic, but it brings with it a potentially exponential increase in the work required to implement the quest in game: the writing, the decorating (and crafting), etc.
    Most games that support branching quest lines are fully aware of this and have those different branches merge later in the quest. A classic example of merging is the ending of Mass Effect, which for most players was profoundly disappointing.
    For that reason I avoid branching in quests unless I can make it meaningful, and that is far from easy without a huge increase in difficulty for the quest creator.

    It is worth noting that different players seek entirely different experiences in quests. Those who gravitate towards PVP are more likely to be seeking an adrenaline-related or emotional experience. Let's call these visceral quests. Others may prefer puzzle solving. Let's call these cerebral quests. Other games (platformers, in particular) reward players with good hand-eye coordination. A Super Mario quest does not generally involve any serious visceral or cerebral components. Let's call these reflex quests. Another kind of quest is the so-called "walking simulator". This is a quest where the player must form a view about what has transpired, based on set design and found text. Let's call these scene stories. My interests lie in scene stories and cerebral quests (the latter wrapped in a story to give the puzzles context and meaning, and add further entertainment).

    Having stated my personal preference, I do however think that there is plenty of room for visceral quests, and would love to see how they can be implemented in SotA - particularly given the assumption that the quest should be available 24/7, and not require the ongoing active involvement of the quest creator.
     
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  11. Time Lord

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    Yes!!! This!!! and from the other bookstore keeper excellent, because I think you 2 could do some extremely special things!!!
    [​IMG]

    In particular (and this is always something I think of when I think of our Womby's works of interest)...
    I'd like to see some video quests, where there are umm... "of the VCR game types" but not exactly... but sort of exactly o_O as I like hands off quests that run themselves as well;

    I think those could be done better and SOTA'fied :confused:!'
    There's a few different ways something like that could work using SOTA styled 'things", yet also could be different than a murder mystery... yet could be one if it was wished to by the writer/creators.

    Through "books" such a thing I believe could be achievable.
    Through linking scenes, into a puzzle another form could be created... "going to look for that vid hold on a sec"... here it is;
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  12. Time Lord

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    That's something that's easily, or can be done with video exp as you have Womby. I've seen those short stories you did or helped do in the past and those sort of fit into this style of video quest? Yet maybe you could feature as a "part of the story" then link that to something inside the game.

    But I'm surprised no one has yet to see the versatility of the ballerina yet...
    I'm intentionally referring back to it, because it's such a great questing mechanic that can be used, but also as a quest of my own presenting it to you, so you can quest as to how you all may see it as useful.

    ~Time Lord~
     
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  13. Time Lord

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    I want to also see some ways where we can actually inspire players to go outside. I'm not going to give away the things and places I may use, but it's enough for those that "know where their friends live" to be able to use that knowledge of them to have them wonder what the heck your quest may be taking about when it asks them to step outside and check out the real life world, or common household items.


    Leaving things hanging in the air and incomplete as an art form;


    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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  15. Time Lord

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    ~Welcome Everyone the SOTA Player Research and Development Thread~ of the ~SOTA Seers and Troudabour Kickstarter Program~
    (A non-Portalarium supported player quest support group and training ground for all who wish to learn and teach the art of quest building and advanced concept designs)
    ...part of the...
    ~Players "Helping" Players~
    ~Initiative~

    o_O Doesn't that look more official un-officially? o_O
    http://www.uoguide.com/Volunteers#
    That's just a reference of a possible SOTA future
    Time Lords make predictions like that you know
    There's room for everyone
    For Both Seers and
    Troubadours
    "alike"
    (!)



    Mondain, Minax, Exodus, Lord Blackthorn, The Shadowlords, The Guardian, Batlin, Elizabeth, Abraham, (The Oracle? o_O)...
    These are all examples of Cthulhu that have been used throughout our Ultima's beginnings and into the now.
    From Ultima I-IX and UO, "some Cthulhu" has always been with us.
    Whether strong or weak they have always been here,
    and will continue to be here,
    without end,
    (!)

    The subject of Cthulhu is a difficult one because it congers up horror visions "in our head" which are fictitious in reality. It's because we find it repulsive in it's anti-virtues when compared to mankind and when read as a complete book is sometimes too much for us to handle. Yet when delivered in tiny SOTA style quest sound bites of text, they seem no more harmful than a few words scribbled on paper. This is the Cthulhu we face, which is an incredibly small and harmless Cthulhu only if we then see it for what it could be, which is a harmless bread crumb trail into the mystery which can carry it's Cthulhuism forward for us to wonder about throughout our daily lives in it's intrigue.

    Our SOTA can't afford a large R&D Department who's soul purpose is to think up new ideas from anyone outside of a small circle which is our Portalariums small number in Staff. Yet they are a wonderful small Staff with decades of experience behind them. For we players, we only have ourselves which have the need to come together for better and possibly more innovative player quest design.

    Do we all know that our Portalarium had a trading in rare item's game, which almost spawned it's own TV Reality Show? Many projects or ideas don't take over the world, yet we should continue by mimicking our Portalarium's example in bold gaming concept design, or remain in our safety zones of the more common in generic design, accept our low numbers in participants and the short durations of interests within our works.

    "So this is my sketch pad" and I hope you all feel welcomed in using as your own as well... because no matter if I'm working on a Cthulhu, you can work on anything you like (as if anyone needed my permission) and maybe we can begin to see where writing and mechanical design can meet in a primal unity without taking any issue to destroy or control it, or any "it" anyone else has to offer.

    I love "in my face" critics and I love you all for tolerating my seemingly endless dribble. "Yet for my outside of this thread's critics, who haven't the courage to say things in a public venue"...
    Our outside critics only defeat us when we choose to fear them and overcoming them when we face them for what they are, which are just plain trolls and greifers. What they can do when fed, or allowed to destroy, is our own dam fault they were allowed to control and dominate through their own egos desire to have more power over our creativity. That road they wish to take us on looks like this, which I will never allow to happen by holding onto what is artistic individualism for everyone which I will hold onto even past my own mortality's eventual end. I will never go gently into the night and allow this to happen;

    The lord of the south sea was "Abrupt"; the lord of the north sea was "Sudden". From time to time Abrupt and Sudden got together in the territory of "Primal Unity", and Primal Unity treated them well.
    Abrupt and Sudden planned to repay Primal Unity's kindness.
    They said, "People all have seven openings, through which they see, hear, eat and breath; Primal Unity alone has none. Let us make openings in Primal Unity".
    So every day they gouged out a hole. After 7 days, Primal Unity died.

    Control is something that's difficult for people to give up or surrender to when it comes to forces which dominate in their control or desires to control. The one single most difficult thing that resides here in SOTA as fact to do when it comes to quest writing, is providing anyone with a sense of loosing their control, yet this is what Cthulhu does, because it takes away control from us. Yet this intrigues us to continue reading or seeking forward. Why does Cthulhu sound like such a struggle in desperation, because it is desperation, because it is something we cannot overcome, which provides the monster in the closet so the hero can attempt to dispel it, or conquer it, or drive it away, or kill it, or die in the trying.

    It's easy for any quest writer in SOTA to create an item collecting quest, a puzzle quest or a hero quest, yet it's more difficult to bring anything Cthulhu fear into our questing creations because of the mechanics available which protect us. this is why I personally set myself to that challenge, not because it is easy but because it's difficult to do.

    Each of our Ultima Primes have had a Cthulhu within it, from Ultima 1 through to the present time of Ultima Spirit we now find ourselves in. A hero thus to me, is one that display's true bravery in the face of overwhelming odds and is not always the likely victor. This is the hero's display of true sacrifice which then separates the fantasy hero from the real. One of the oldest myths of man kind is about the zodiac sign of Cancer the Crab. In that story there was a Queen who asked for a champion to step forward and defend her honor at the Mount of Olympus Games, where the hero named Hercules was putting to death all that challenged him. Yet no one of the Queen's subjects wished to go to their most certain death. It was then only the humble Crab who stepped forward and voluntarily went to meet that challenge to defend his Queen's honor. Within that following fight to the death, the humble Crab latched on and held tight the heel of the mighty Hercules and wouldn't let go even after his own death, which then became the myth of Achilles Heel and for that selfless heroic act of sacrifice the Queen granted the Crab immortality setting his likeness in the stars.
    :rolleyes: That's what it is to face a Cthulhu.


    Yet we even have a Cthulu here with us, which begs us to admit that we do not have our own natural control within our real world. The simple Ballerina who only asks us to choose which way she is spinning for us, to prove that we do not have full control of our own minds unless we can conquer our own mind to allow her to then spin in the opposite direction from what she first appeared to us to be spinning in.

    The Ballerina always first spins to her left for me which indicates that I'm mostly using the creative and abstract side of my brain, until I consciously choose to make her spin in the other direction which then holds. Yet it's more easy for me to have her spin to the left again, than it is to have her spin to the right again. For some people, she will always spin to one direction and not the other.

    Information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music, music is the best... Wisdom is the domain of the wiz... which is extinct. Beauty is a French phonetic corruption Of a short cloth neck ornament currently in resurgence... "Moon Unit Zappa" from Joe's Garage of 1979...

    What I am seeking through the Ballerina is if the player is using the right or left side of their brain. If the seeker chooses one side or the other, this could then lead them to an experience which best fits their own personality type or brain activity interests. This could lead in two different directions yet both achieve the same for the seeker except with a more enjoyable trail for the seeker to follow to the same outcome.

    Concepts in depth and how great storylines are planned...
    The Final Chapter #15 – Dippy arrives in Novia. Aarun returns to Brightwell and goes back to his village to rebuild so it could be a trading post between Nimbus and Segura. Dippy discovers that the Obsidians meant well but used chaos to bring order which was why the sorcerers of the Obsidian could not reach the success of the mages of Nimbus. Dippy discovers a Tomb of an Avatar. Much time is spent studying the stories on the scrolls. Dippy comes to the conclusion that the return of the Avatars if left alone will only bring the world to its final destruction. He vows to convert the Avatars from “these virtues that obviously didn’t work” to see the truth of how Order, Chaos, and Balance are the only paths that exist. Dippy changes his name to “Atos”, for those who bring only Order or Chaos will learn to fear him. By: "Golem Dragon" of (the awesome, the great) "The Cult of Spears"... http://ultimacodex.com/2016/07/shro...pears-final-post-and-why-i-am-done-with-sota/
    ~Time Lord~o_O...
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2016
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  16. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    Remember, SotA has given us a basic set of tools to conduct quests in-game right now. Of course, more could and probably will be added. So talking about it is one thing, but we can also experiment. This is what I would encourage people to do: try things in-game.... get in and do something! This is a basic problem people face with writing... they want to write, but they don't actually sit down and do it.

    People like Pikegirl and Womby are venturing into the fray already and deserve credit for doing so.

    We can talk about steering the community, teaching, improving the game all day long. But at the end of the day, the community should be first and foremost about doing stuff in-game.

    So when do we get to experience a Time Lord quest in-game? ;)
     
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  17. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    I love challenges, so thanks so much for that! I've always thought that it more important to be challenged and compete, than it is to win or loose. I'm also mentally set up that way from years of government service. If someone doesn't ask or tell me to do something, then there seems to me something lacking in my motivation to do it o_O Time Lord is mental that way... :p

    So, I sure hope so my friend :)
    In the current catalog, There's one I've done before which is around 90% complete which is a psy spy self discovery quest which will carry much of whatever Cthulhu can be managed to keep going in, yet that one's currently on hold. There's other past works of my own I'm rejecting because I've challenged myself to use more mechanics in, because they were only Barkeep style simple UO quests. So... there's allot of adaptation needing done on those, because I really think they're lame by my new goal's standards. I may have to chop an ear off getiing those to be more... so I may just scrap or totally bypass them until we can get some Troubadour things going on to help raise those from the dead. I feel it's a cop-out in I can't fix them to be anything more than they are without having to add some super power "and attended". I want quests to stand alone, with no need of RP.

    I want to try something new...
    I've been working on one that involves clue videos and mind hacks. Once I get the mechanics I need together, I'm actually hoping to either do the writing myself or bring in help, which could be sparse within it, yet solving though some clue style, so it can stand alone without attending to it. I'm not sure what it's about yet, as in subject matter, yet it may be centered around a character from The Cult of Spears. That way if Golem Dragon hears about it, then maybe it will suk enough for her to come back and fix it her self :D... But there's another author I'd also enjoy resurrecting, which may become mixed within The Cult of Spears mythos, by injecting The Red Hat Gnomes :confused:... But then also I've challenge myself to include some Cthulhu, which I truly have never done within my past works, which is now expressing itself through a sinister mandate from some Avatar who has haunted me to do so o_O... I don't like everything dark in any storyline, so I have to find the points where levity can be placed inside.

    This is one of the videos I want to use in my current incomplete endeavor, followed by a video of what I envision as a healthy objective to obtain of player interaction and reaction. Elements of it will be possibly recognizable within the quest, but that's not important. It's not the substance of that video I feel is important, but the way in which an average quest seeker should expect through experiencing emotional Cthulhu styled content with points of levity. So it sort of serves as my current target of seeker experience.

    This is the one I want to use within it... followed by the other target of seeker experience and contrast...


    I don't mind sharing most all of what I will go through along my own quest in the development of this quest, because I feel that it's important for others to see how a hack like me can do it, which may inspire other future visitors to the thread... yet also, I always take elements of what I use, jumble them all back up and put out the same quest again using the same mechanics (added to or subtracted from) sort of like a jigsaw puzzle of pieces. But even further than that,
    this is meant as a new player quest, meaning that it's a fresh audience that therefore doesn't possibly know about this thread, or how to "find" the video link to the first video... which was placed here:
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...the-day-whats-yours.43823/page-67#post-678476
    How the seeker can find the video needed which matches each quest, or element within it, then is included within the puzzle designs within the quest. But BTW, this video is pointed out, while in the future, other quest videos may not and only identified by puzzle clue.

    In our distant or not so distant future, the planets will be (I'm Hoping @Berek ) will become more easily to find of their final rotational cycles, names and influences, which will then provide the quest builder to say things like "Upon the second cycle of the sacred planet of the Dunkin' Donut, when it falls within the magic cup of coffee in the sky, there will appear for a time a babbling Time Lord in the anal abyss of the seemingly headless lands of Kings Crossing. Then the player can (I hope through the easily accessible gaming mechanics/astrolabe) tell what time that is, instead of having to use in game time clock or RL time. That's not a big deal, but I'd like things to be user friendly which help us get deeper into the immersion in our game. "I think we're getting close to that, but I'd like to see that portion of our game become far less of a math problem through possibly accessing a rendering much like this:
    I want our Portalarium to create a paper made construction set which can be then made into a Novian Orrery . If the Portalaium company could print out such designs, then the player could order the construction set from the company. That project could easily pay for itself (because it's paper/cardboard simi-sturdy somewhat stylish "but cheap") This could then lead to a more robust Orrery of finer matierials which could then be sold through the add-on store as well + shipped to the customer's location. The initial orrery wouldn't have to be totally accurate, yet could be "calibrated" by the user and give some approximate indications of upcoming planetary events. It's a product to think about just as described within that simple video, easy to cut out and construct by the player and could be produced by Portalarium at a very low cost. This also takes a bit of the game, and then places it on the game player's computer table, thus helping to draw them back into the game from it's reminder of being there, as a symbol that our game's alive and waiting for them. *just a thought aye?* please pass it along ;)
    @Berekut There's something inside that spoiler I want you to see and pass along...

    That's the current quest plan in the making o_O... Will it work well or not is another story, because I have to at least provide 2 branches which can meet the ending together.
    There's more to this quest I'm building, but this post is getting to be a large text cloud, so I'll cut it off here for now, yet I'll post more on it later and how it should all interconnect.
    Thanks for the challenge @Vyrin :) I'll try and meet that challenge soon!
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
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