Player owned towns now avail on the store

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Brass Knuckles, Jun 30, 2020.

  1. Brass Knuckles

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    mostly I agree with you however portal had control when they started to resell expired rares via renaming with 2016,2017 then ultimately adding them to the vault.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
  2. Sulaene Moon

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    New management = new game rules or no rules!
     
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  3. Warrior B'Patrick

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    Greetings all
    I understand your frustration with the promises made by Port. So many things were supposed to be unique and exclusive only to end up in the COTO store with the same stats and a new skin on then. But as far as Catnip buying the game, not the company, it also acquired all debts and obligations at the time of the sale unless specifically noted. Although the EULA probably gave them a way out of some of that as well. There is a lot to be upset about like the Subscriber Rewards being in the COTO store the same week they release. Or the lack of Patch notes so we can see what is being worked on. I am just happy the game has not folded and even though many things frustrate me at least I can still play.

    As for the Seedinvestment, I am no securities manager but I just check my account and I still have my share and they are still active. They will probably never make me any money buy maybe one day I can sell the Certificate of Ownership to a Lord British memorabilia collector. :cool:
     
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  4. evillego6

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    This is not accurate information.
     
  5. Sulaene Moon

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    Some people think they are lawyers. Most of us just play one in video games.
     
  6. Morgathys

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    That mean.. the solution to break all the promises you did to gather funds can be reverted by changing the company number?
    We agree the staff doesnt changed much ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2020
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  7. Warrior B'Patrick

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    Greetings evillego6
    My comment was not specific to Catnips purchase of the game it was a template language of most sales/purchases. I would be interested to know the actual language of the agreement since you have it.
     
  8. evillego6

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    I do not need the contract to know you are incorrect. I'll begin with the fact that Catnip did not purchase the game from Portalarium, they purchased all operating assets (not liabilities) of Portalarium, including the name Portalarium itself. I know this because this was discussed by both Starr and Chris at the time of purchase.
     
  9. Brass Knuckles

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    At this point it pretty much became Chris’s game, I think Starr and L British like the community and support Chris when they are able but no longer involved in directing the project. Chris is bound by no hard agreements and can make decisions on stuff as he sees fit aka he’s the boss :)
     
  10. kaeshiva

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    Honestly, they need to make money and I think we all understand that.

    However, a business plan that includes making content not available through expiry or some other means, when that content still needs to be supported, is well, a bit stupid.
    Creating artificial rarity only helps resellers in the secondary market - which seems a bit shortsighted.

    I wanted a POT for years. I would have happily bought a POT from Port/Catnip and invested in making it bigger over time.
    But I missed the deadline. No PoT for Shim. Wasn't really keen on doing the RMT market thing, its a lot of money without a lot of security that you'll get what you're paying for and I deemed it too big a risk.

    Ep2 pots came along and I considered it, but having no insight into how ep2 landmass would even work (they've changed their tune on that a few times) I didn't want to be miles away from everything and exclude people who only had the base game, esp. since this was before teleport-to-zone and cross-country-galleon and other travel amenities.

    I finally did get an original overland POT from a friend who decided he was done with the game . And the first thing I thought was, well, there's a big pile of money that Catnip Games would have gotten from me, if they had just had it available to buy. It seems they finally wised up to the fact that they have customers willing to drop thousands of dollars and no way to do so.
     
  11. Brass Knuckles

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    it’s a really good point you have there is a cost though to the many who bought them at a much higher price knowing they were getting something that would have rarity and be exclusive I know people who paid a premium in the secondary market for Novia+overworld. Those early people who had faith in the word of the devs were sacrificed, is it needed Mabey I’m not sure the games finances they might be at that point where this change on policy is required.

    im not saying your wrong but it’s a bit more complicated. When you say 10x times “this is your last chance to ever get some item” then they just open the food gates later it does violate the spirit of the original agreement.

    with that said they do need money to stay open and I want them to stay open!!!! Chris said the “whales” have vanish maybe with this they will get some of those big dollars back idk.

    @Chris some of the loss of whale money is attributed to the devaluation of tax free deeds. People stopped buying them when rent got cheap and gold got easier to get FYI.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  12. Datendrache

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    Anyone planning to drop larger dollars expect to get the value they sunk into it back out of it in terms of entertainment, game advancement, psychological advantage, convenience, etc. This is one of the drums I keep beating -- understanding what I think of as "value" is a vague notion at best -- but value needs to be present to attract people willing to sink in large amounts into the game. PoTs are social constructs, and as such, I wholly support increasing their availability because friendship is priceless.

    This also means that its a very smart move to increase the overall value of PoT game play. That anticipated "castle siege" mechanic might be more valuable for Player Owned Towns, or creating new forms of blessings/perks that can be either fought for or randomly distributed (like fishing bonus), and who knows what else (maybe limited Governor powers that work like GM potions only inside a specific player owned town.) The ideas about making mini-games from PoTs was batted around a few times.

    But in my mind, a group of players that work well together that start in an outskirts zone can aspire to create their own little holdfast as friends whenever they desire to, while they are still filled with motivate and a sense of discovery and adventure. They aren't hindered by a second-hand market, long delays for being added to the game, limited inventory, etc. I believe this is exactly how it should be, and how it should have been originally. More fun, less stress about intermediaries and fear of being ripped off, and returns one of the biggest ticket items back to the control of Catnip.

    I believe the only thing missing is enough inventive to dissolve a PoT. Being able to merge PoTs is one interesting way just added, but it might be an even easier decision for a solo governor to dissolve a PoT for 50% COTO value in return. I'm assuming this is simply to create a way for PoTs to enter and leave the game so there's less unused ones laying around, so might as well sweeten the PoT a little (bad pun).

    Sincerely,

    Engineer
     
  13. Scanphor

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    Anyone who puts 000's into a video game and sees it as a saleable asset with monetary value and not cash spent at the moment they spend it needs their head examined TBH IMO ;)
     
  14. Oakenhammer

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    On the livestream, Chris mentioned that the "whales" were still around, but were spending less because of the uncertainty in the global economy caused by the pandemic. As one such "whale," I've definitely curbed my usual spending pattern and put off making some larger purchases.

    I never considered the reduction in rent as a devaluation of tax free deeds. To me, the value of the tax free deeds was just the convenience of not having to worry about managing the tax payments, regardless of how much gold was required.
     
  15. Brickbat

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    As the present owner of 5 Brick-towns and previously 6 more that I resold.

    Yeah, whatever - they are just trying to keep the game from dying. End.

    Enjoy your gaming today,
    Brickbat

    PS - they gave what 50% discount for Episode 2 towns by taking $500 deposit then no further funds required...so this skullduggery seems tame.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  16. Circe2

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    @kaeshiva shiva, I have followed the forum for years and you have always shown a great insite tempered with logic. Your wealth of information has always leaned to temperance for the game as a whole as well as for the difficulties the dev's endure. If for no other reason I appreciate your candid and insightful manner, I encourage the dev's as well as the community to listen consider and then ACT. Def ears do not hear. You are truly an asset that has not been... Tapped... Time for engagement. I believe your approval record speaks for the majority and this FEEDBACK needs to be considered.
     
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  17. Brass Knuckles

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    right I was talking whale dollars and not the players them selves. ;) honesty I don’t know why they use that word it does sound offensive especially all the current craziness going on in the world. I think those players have higher stick rates for several reasons. Investment passion deeper social connections etc.


    I feel like there was much less market for tax free deeds after they made the tax one cheaper and increased the gold in the game. People went from spending $200+ to not really needing to with cheaper taxes and you can preload now like a tax free deed. Prob good for people in general but it’s a Big revenue loss to portal.

    defiantly should be priority #1

    @Datendrache the idea I liked years ago was have them work like tax free deeds when you don’t log and refresh them they drop into your account. 70% would poof then you would have plenty of room for new town owners and not feel crowded.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
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  18. Vladamir Begemot

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    Can't say we didn't warn him.
     
  19. kaeshiva

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    The devaluation in tax free deeds, while certainly impacted by rent reductions, is more directly impacted by the fact that the 'upgrade deed with cotos' implementation gave them two things they did not originally have:
    1) unlimited availability
    2) fixed coto price

    This establishes a baseline for tax free deeds that is far cheaper than they were when they existed only in pledges or as parts of bundles.

    Knowing that both
    a) cotos go on sale
    b) deed upgrades go on sale

    allows someone to wait for the associated sales on firstly buying the currency and secondly upgrading deeds, meaning that after double dipping the sales the actual amount of money that had to get invested to get a tax free deed is significantly less than the fixed asking price.

    We saw the same thing happen with commission free vendors, which used to sell for $150-200 a pop when they only came as parts of pledges/bundles, and then Portalarium stuck em on the shop for 30 bucks. Same thing with the crafting tables. These items have not had any change in functionality but are worth a fraction of what they were early. How much money did the devs lose then? I mean sure, some people will buy bundles just to cut them up and sell them. But ultimately this was only viable because people wanted the final goods and were willing to pay. If there was profit in reselling, there would have been profit in just direct selling to begin with.

    Many of the "whales" invested heavily in these items with a view that they'd retain their value and well, that 'investment' bottomed out with the changes. So a lot of spending that you'd see from that sector has dried up because its simply not a good/reliable/sound investment anymore. Some may argue "well, it shouldn't be an investment, its a game, not a stock market." And some will agree/disagree. I think in the long run, losing the "things people bought to resell for more" hurts, sure, but I think the goal is that players will take their money straight to the source when they want something. The Pots are a good example of this. Catnip missed out on a lot of money here - just look at how many pots got sold on the market for thousands upon thousands over the last few years. Did some people only buy pots to flip them and sell them? Perhaps. But making something exclusive from all new people who come to the game ever just doesn't make business sense.

    Most people will decide they need to buy something 'cause they see someone else has got it and think "oh, shiny! i want!". Sota is no exception here, and I think its a real shame that there's a lot of cool things that time/effort went into creating (and time/effort is required in maintaining, ensuring these houses/items/etc. still function as the game undergoes changes/patches) and yet there is no way to get them except to pay a premium to a reseller. The vault assuages this somewhat, but you're missing out on a lot of people who will simply lose interest while they wait for the vault to come round or wait for the random sale to come round.

    Example:
    I have a themed town of all shogun-style buildings, and a second themed town of all-adobe style buildings.
    Guess what I can't just straight up buy anymore?
    Do you know how many adobe houses I would have bought if the other 2 styles hadn't been pointlessly "retired" ?
    Or how many more deeds I would have had to buy to put those houses on?
    That's not me being petulant, its admitting that I am a compuslive buyer of things and I just can't help myself.
    I used to get folks asking about moving into Rinzai (which has a semi-strict shogun-or-desert appropriate house aesthetic) and the first obstacle hits immediately - well, you can't get these houses anymore, only the inn or the pavilion. Sorry tough luck. Its not the end of the world. I can put em behind stuff or on empty villages or up on a hill or they have plenty of other places to live, but it just seems a senseless restriction and vault isn't a 'solution' - its a band-aid, but its a band-aid that often isn't available until the cut has healed.


    This is the other issue as time goes on we see it both with pots and with individual land claims that things get abandoned and we're left with a world full of empty places and half-built dreams. My personal development of my town is 'on hold' because the npc quest/dialogue/ink system seems to have been abandoned, and that was key to what I wanted to achieve. We see more additions of individual furniture and things to buy but less work on core structural items that are key (such as different flavors of granite, etc.) to building something unique. Dungeons is another example, I bought up loads of dungeon stuff in anticipation of being able to build something really cool but the actual implementation fell far short of what was hyped:
    - encounter rooms only from killing (mostly) un-soloable stuff for 1% drop rates
    - encounter rooms static, boring, same in every dungeon
    - 2 years in, still the same boring 4 creatures in the same dozen rooms, no variety. Basically a dungeon is just stringing together the same prefabs as everyone else and as such, is not very interesting other than how you decorate it. But not being able to decorate encounter rooms at all because of 'exploit reasons' reduces their appeal significantly, and the loot/xp for player dungeons (except if you're one of those people who go nuts making the endless troll dungeons) is far inferior to static dungeon alternatives.
    I had huge plans for a dungeon, I had a back story, just waiting for the appropriate tech and creatures to be added, but it seems that's on hold, too.


    So in conclusion, why aren't people spending? For me, I'm not spending on stuff that requires certain systems to be 'finished' anymore, because there's been too many changes of priorities/disillusionments in that area. For me that means no dungeon purchases, no purchases for my pot until the player quest/dialgoue stuff gets fleshed out because until then, its just my own personal storage area. No more vendor /storefront / shopping related purchases until the market system gets an overhaul, its just too tedious for too little return. That doesn't leave a lot. I bought a bathing suit and that's about it for last 6 months.
     
  20. King Robert

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    “But making something exclusive from all new people who come to the game ever just doesn't make business sense.”

    A counterpoint - offering things that are unfinished (e.g., pledges to this game) for sale requires an incentive to early backers else they would wisely wait until completion to purchase. If consumers have no urgency, they will wait to purchase. Once those who purchased based on exclusivity learn subsequent options exist, the urgency to purchase is eliminated. Why have ‘whales’ stopped funding the game? Because what was once exclusive is no longer so (e.g., Heritage items) Catnip inadvertently destroyed its own market. Short term decisions without proper economic analysis have caused the funds to dry up. Sadly, in my opinion. As (1) I do not think Catnip thought this through; and (2) I love the game. Unintended consequences are the most impactful on an economy - and Catnip continues to make the same mistake over and over. From upgrading of deeds to new POTs to the economically imprudent ‘soft cap’ xp system, each decision disincentivizes investment in the game both financially and personally (viz., playing). When levels lose meaning, why earn billions of xp? When items don’t expire, urgency to purchase is removed and those who don’t buy early are rewarded by getting things cheaper later.

    If Chris wants this game to make it, he just needs to make decisions that encourage 1) people buying things and 2) people playing the game. Reintroduce urgency to purchase (exclusive things that are awesome will do that) and provide incentive to play (remove the absurd soft cap and install a system that rewards game play MORE as you level up, not less).

    Why does Ferrari not make more cars? Why so many limited edition cars? Because 1) it would dilute the brand and 2) limited edition cars hold their value. Ferrari is the model for SOTA. An exquisite product with an impeccable reputation for keeping its word on exclusivity.