Please help me to understand the Story [Spoiler]

Discussion in 'Quests and Lore' started by Stundorn, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    Due to this...

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/ice-staff.102107/page-2#post-892254

    I need an explanation related to the main story.
    To me it's no spoiler i already finished the Oracle Quest, but i maybe didnt understand it right.
    So please explain to me.

    What i understand from the Story was, that the Obsidians once tryed to "shape" the world.
    The young man who found a Book in Drachvald and becomes the Obsidian Eye created all these creatures like Elves and Trolls to fight against the old Kings / Virtues and "order" Novia and to rule it. They fighted against Boreas, Sequanna and Grannus.
    The Obsidians werent really successfull and someday just gone, no one knows.
    Ah and what was this about Daedalus the Moon. Did they appear or disappear from the Fall?
    So, but now my main question.
    Was or is the Oracle something the Obsidians created?
    As i understand it at the end, damn i cannot reread it.
    The Oracle had long forseen the coming if the Avatar, but at the end it's open if oneself is the one and only Avatar.
    There are many Outlanders who may be this special Avatar in the end, but until this, they are all more or less possible candidates to be the Avatar.
    But until then they are just one of many Avatar's or just Outlanders.

    I also didnt get the Story of Anapa.
    That's somewhat difficult to read for me because if this special style of english i guess.

    If someone can really explain me the lore more accurate i would be glad to understand it more proper to be able to take it into my RP as i'm shaping as well.
    The Seidmenn is like all vikings a practical man. He's open hearted and minded and want to adapt to some degree to understand the magic in this world better, it's history and stories.

    Sad that i didn't get it accurate :(
     
  2. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    Your question is a big one, probably not easily answered in a forum post.

    For review sake, you can look at the chat logs the game saves for you. I used them to review the dialogue after the fact and provide comments. If you can find the main Shroud folder on your PC (depending on system and personal preferences), you should be able to find the folder labeled Chat Logs.

    For now some short answers:
    - The Oracle is something the Titans created... the story of it is a little unclear from the current dialogue at the end of the Path of the Oracle.
    - There is some confusion as to how everyone ends of being the capital A special Avatar and yet there are so many avatars in the world. They said they had a plan to make this work. It wasn't clear in the story in game so far.
    - Anapa's motivations and actions are not super clear - they don't tie in well to the whole of the Path of Love.

    There should be a story reset at some point. At least it has been promised. Then we can all try it again, hopefully with less confusion. I would probably wait in getting more answers to your questions so that you can test if it is clear when they do the story reset. If you learn everything now, you may not be as good a tester! And it needs to be said - thanks for testing and providing feedback.
     
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  3. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    @Vyrin, @Stundorn, the story reset is planned for this next release R47. I say planned because, while it is mentioned in the release notes, I don't know that it's hit QA yet. I haven't checked out the last build or so, so I can't say for sure. And even if it hits QA there could be some major issue that prevents it from going live. So planned is the best answer so far.

    From what I can tell, Anapa plays a major part of the Love path. First, and foremost, he is responsible for the undead horde that sprung from Malice and attack Novia. At first he fought against the Obsidian order, but died. His homeland was crushed and his spirit raged, and has never stopped raging. And now he wants to finish what the Obsidians began. So he is the architect of the undead coming to life and invading Novia. By capturing Sequanna she was no longer able to guide the undead to their final resting place.

    I see thhe path of love as being Samael's story, about his love and loss of his Muriel. Anapa took Muriel, gave Samael the ring to bring him unbearable pain and suffering, because of his love for Muriel. He baited and lured Samael with the ring, torturing him. It isn't until Samael reaches Sequanna that he sees how much pain his love of Muriel has caused him, the regrets he has felt since Muriel left him. Only Sequanna can show him this, and in the end she does. He becomes free of the pain of loss and regrets when he gives up the ring. And in the end he finds his lost love for Muriel.


    Remember that the story is being told in five parts, much like a television serial. Each part will have a story arc that concludes, but not until the final chapter in the serial will all the previous parts come together, forming the larger story arc.
     
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  4. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    I think your assessment is very accurate and a generous interpretation. It has been important for me take the dialogue in the game at face value. A lot of things you mention were not mentioned when I played the path of love (it's been a few releases at least), and they could have been added since. However, if they reset next release, I will be scrutinizing the dialogue again and will expect it to tell the story. Even though the story is 5 parts - there needs to be some coherence to Episode 1.

    In the interpretation you gave, I would still have a lot of questions about the story making sense and hanging together, but I will wait for the reset. Let's hope it's R47; DS said in the telethon question answer thread that it is on. I will believe it when I see it.
     
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  5. jiirc

    jiirc Avatar

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    Some of the dialogue changed with R46, which is when I went through Malice. R46 brought a better understanding of what was going on, but all of the keywords need to be hit or you miss parts of the story. Very little of what I said was interpreted, it was stated in dialogue from Samael and Sequanna in Malice.

    As with any serialization, only the story so far has to hang together. Gaps are fine as they are likely to be filled in later.

    I will say that, if it's really about Samael as it is in the end, I would wonder if he shouldn't play a more prominent role earlier in the story. For me the story starts out about a mystery of why the undead have invaded Solace Bridge, then it becomes about Siranto and the other gal in Ardoris (and Lin at the Shuttered Eye). Only about half way through does Samael come in to play, but still as a secondary character (ie. Necropolis). Since I did Necropolis early on, maybe there is something there and in Kiln. Samael's role doesn't seem to come to the forefront until you see him in Spite.
     
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  6. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    That is one of my concerns too. I think those are the kinds of things on which they still need feedback.

    (FYI - I made a point of hitting all the keywords when I played it a few releases ago - so I'm glad to hear there is more in R46. However, at the time I played it, they were just supposed to be "polishing". Sounds like substantial improvements may still be needed and I really hope there is a new round of testing!)
     
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  7. Tetsu Nevara

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    Based on the Novel:
    The young man esablished the Obsidian Order, Headquarters in Epitaph in Grunvald. I think the Book was full of Chaos Magic or Obsidian based magic cause they use the Obsidions from the Sharfall for it. The Obsidian Order created the Elves, Kobolds and co out of Human transformation and weird experiments to create better Soldiers.
    They said they fight against chaos cause order can only be reached if everyone is under the banner of the Obsidian Army.
    They didnt fight against the Titans in the novel cause the existence was not revealed yet. The Titans are no gods, as i remeber they are from another dimension like the Avatar and couldnt find a way back (have to read it again for exact answer). After Opalis get attacked the Titans escape and split up into the citys and armys to support the fight against the obsidian army. They needed the help of the mayor citys. The Titans later build the Oracle.

    Drachvald was the first region who was defeated through the Obsidian Army, cant remember if Anapa wad mentioned but i think (speculation) he was some kind of ruler and is angry because Ardoris aka the Perennial Coast didnt helped them. The big problem in the early War was, that nobody helped cause they where afraid of getting attacked if there Army is out of the Region. So they lose because everyone was fighting by thete own. Later they build a Alliance to fight back.
     
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  8. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    Yes true, thats is what i also remember.
    Again yes, that sounds familiar to me.
    I remember that Anapa was some Kind of King who fought against the Cabal, but when feel betrayed become the evil Lich King. Betrayed by Sequanna?
    Yes i think so, thats because she was imprisoned in Malice.

    So yes this was very helpfull, i t came back to my mind when you told me the Oracle was build by the Titans who were also former Avatar's from another world and become related to the Virtues Love, Courage and Truth.

    So we Avatar's are in some sense a sort of Virtue followers, the new Titans maybe.
    And the Oracle can give us guidance on the three paths, we can ask about our Virtues and the Oracle supports us.
    Ofc it's everybodys choice if he wants this support or connection to the Oracle.

    Maybe someone has a clue about the Dread Artifacts???

    They are something that brought the Titans to Fall. Like "Ring" gifts from the Obsidian Cabal?
    Or were they Titans Magic, but then why are they dread?

    I also understand that The Obsidian Eye wanted to order and rule Novia through Chaos, or lets say end the ruling of the Titans and order the Land in his own way.
    That was something told in the Epilog iirc.

    So what i still do not understand is this.

    Novia was peaceful, there were 3 Outlanders what become famous and the Titans of Virtues, right?!
    Then the Fall happens, the Moons Trammel and Felucca Crashed and the new shattered Moon Daedalus appears and Shards Fall down to Novia or NB.
    Sidenote:
    Novia = continent
    Hidden Vale = "Continent" or Isle
    New Brittania = Planet (where more continents will be revealed in episodes 2-5)
    Correct?

    So from then on the world was filled with Magic, Chaos magic from the Shardfalls.
    Thats why Obsidian Chips drop the most in Shardfalls and Ruins.
    The Ruins become heaviely influenced by Obsidian Magic (PvP) while the Obsidian war and the Obsidian occupation or destruction!?

    The Obsidians shaped humans to Elves and Trolls with magic, but also the Kobolds?
    Or are the Kobolds an old race of NB/ Novia?

    So, we dont know why the Obsidians disappeared?
    The only thing that lasts from this war are the destruction or Ruins, the Shardfalls, the other "races" what for example try to become self sufficient and evolve on their own like the Elves in Vertas?!?
    Also the old Titans Statues and the Dread Artifacts.

    But here is a logic Problem or?

    The story at the end says we Outlanders are the Avatar's, maybe one is the Avatar of the Oracles Prophecy, that also Marcus has forseen?

    But then, how can we all have the Dread Artifacts?

    The Story was trying to bring it into the MP, but if all players are possibly Avatar's or "the Avatar", how can everybody have the Dread Artifacts?
    And why do i need to sacrifice myself if i want to charge and use them?
    So i guess these Artifacts are Obsidian Artifacts, you also get a Virtue hit when using them iirc.
    And these Artifacts then need to be not unique but available for every Avatar?
    Like "Rings" (from the Obsidian Cabal) to rule us?

    Many questions and Confusion.

    Who can help me to clarify?

    @Vyrin @Bowen Bloodgood @jiirc
    @discipleofweb @Paladin Michael @Vladamir Begemot @High Baron O`Sullivan

    Added you as i think you are familiar with these topic.

    Thanks and i hope i didnt spoiler something to you.

    Have Fun - Stun o/
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  9. Vyrin

    Vyrin Avatar

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    Some quick responses:

    The Fall happens first in the lore of this New Britannia. It changed the nature of magic and destroyed society as it was before. (Assuming it to be somehow a world of the previous Ultimas) The Titans came after the Fall and before the Obsidians.

    When I played the story several releases ago, there was not much information of the backstory of the Titans, especially how they became the paragons of virtue. I didn't learn the origin of the Kobolds, and you are correct they are not Obsidian creatures. I didn't learn what exactly the dread artifacts are.

    There is the problem of capital A avatars in a multiplayer world full of avatars. LB said they had a solution to this a long time ago, but it hasn't been obvious in the story. He said they are still working on it. Hopefully when we can get in and play the quests again next release it will be more clear.
     
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  10. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    I'm sorry Stundorn but it will be too much to try to explain everything, since it is easier to try to teach someone something new than to re-teach someone who has learnt the wrong thing first.
    Your timeline is mixed up, your view on the history is mixed up, your view on the motives are mixed up and your view of the plot arc is mixed up.

    So lets just give you an appetizer with history...

    Timeline:
    • Before the fall
    • Cataclysm/Shardfall
    • First era - Age of Survival (the era of the Survivors)
    • Second era - Warring Cities (the era of the Warlords)
    • Third era - Obsidian Wars (the era of the Obsidians)
    • Fourth era - Oracular Enlightenment (the era of the Oracle)
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...-the-dire-prophecy-spoiler.97707/#post-861706


    Incorrect.

    Titans are specifically not from earth, while we avatars are. Titans are very much separate from avatars.
    We are not necessarily to follow virtue but rather to rediscover it.
    Incorrect.

    The Obsidian Eye is anti-chaos and pro-order.
    The Obsidian Eye did not necessarily want to rule, instead he created the Obsidian Order which could handle that.
    The Obsidian Eye saw himself as the good guy, he wanted peace, prosperity and unity. But to him the only way to get peace was through war (the war-to-end-all-wars). The only way to bring prosperity and unity to him was to defeat all the other rulers which he saw as unjust and evil so that he and his order could dictate the future through the prophecy.
    The Titans only ruled one tiny city when the Obsidian Order started out.

    Incorrect.

    See timeline above.

    There had been constant strife and warfare for over a hundred years before the Obsidian Order. (second era)
    The Titans ruled a tiny city, they were not particularly famous outside the richer classes.
    The world was not peaceful at all, including the parts surrounding where the Titans lived (Paladis).
    One of the goals of the Obsidian Order is to bring peace.
    http://sotawiki.net/sota/Blade_of_the_Avatar/Sword_of_Midras

    Correct.

    and about the Hidden Vale
    http://www.todayifoundout.com/index...nd-is-an-island-and-australia-is-a-continent/

    Incorrect.

    The world had magic etc before the fall as well - however the magic was different. So the rites and formulas that used to work stopped working and one needed to find out how magic worked differently after the fall. One of those differences is Chaos Magic but it is so much more than that.

    Correct.
    Obsidian Chips are really shardfalls bits.

    Incorrect.

    It is the shards and the floating stones that leads to the wild and aggressive nature of the shardfalls etc.
    Obsidian Magic was trying to tame the wild effects of the shardfalls.

    Incorrect.

    The Kobolds predate the shardfall.
    The Kobolds according to Kobold lore even predate humans.

    Incorrect.

    The Obsidian Order were defeated by the united nations around them.
    Also they didn't disappear, they never went away.

    Correct, in that the fomorian races like elves etc remain.

    Incorrect, some of the ruins predate the Obsidian era, some even predate the fall, that is how the Blade of the Avatar was found.

    Incorrect, the shardfalls predate the Obsidian era by centuries.

    Incorrect.

    The multiverse of the multiple shards (UO) was shattered and formed a single shard (SotA).
    There is an endless number of Dread Artifacts.


    You don't and you shouldn't. Unless you are a very bad person - or if you ignore lore and just play the game for fun.
     
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  11. Stundorn

    Stundorn Avatar

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    Thanks a lot for clarification, some things I was aware of, but just poorly explained myself .

    But then why are ruins PvP zones, are there also Shards? Don't remember, visited just 1 or 2 ruins.

    That's just cool, i can't help, but although i live in Norgard I like the Kobolds somehow :D

    Oh okay, that's new to me, I remembered a wiki entry about that they disappeared, but the entry seems to be updated also http://sotawiki.net/sota/Obsidian_Empire

    About the multiverse and dread artifacts and why it's bad or evil to use them I still am a bit confused, but very helpful.

    Thank you @Spoon.
     
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  12. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Mostly what Spoon said.. except..

    There's nothing to support the idea that the shards of UO have anything to do with SotA. It's certainly not official lore or even hinted at.

    That there are multiple sets of Dread Artifacts is a major flaw in the story when attempting to make a single player story accessible to everyone, work in a multiplayer environment and is one of those things which is better left understood by players but not explained in-game as no explanation really works. Unfortunately, there are quite a few story elements like that. :(
     
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  13. Bowen Bloodgood

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    One of those previously eluded to game mechanics that should NOT be explained by story. Then again I find the whole idea of the Oracles "protection" to be utterly absurd. For example: If she can interfere in the free will of Outlanders.. why can't natives take advantage of this as well?

    The ruins however do have quite a few giant shards so presumably the same excuse as the shardfalls apply. The Oracle apparently has trouble dealing with 'wild' magic.

    You should be. Again, major flaw in trying to make a single player story work in multiplayer without making adjustments. However, inconsistencies in game mechanics shouldn't be explained away by lore if it can't be done well. It's just the nature of a game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  14. Bowen Bloodgood

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  15. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    The Obsidian Empire disappeared, correct. But the Obsidians just went underground. Literally in most cases since the inner core are undead.

    See it like the Nazis in that Nazi Germany lost the war, but even though that empire was defeated there were still Nazis after the war ended and there are still Nazis today.
    Same thing with IS, just because IS has lost all its conquests and lost most of its leadership doesn't mean that it is gone or disappeared. It just means that what was the caliphate is gone.




    I'd argue both.
    Yes, agreed it is not official lore and not mentioned in the game.
    But Richard has definitely mentioned and hinted the unification of multiple shards into one and that each avatar was THE avatar in their own world etc.
    Does the multiverse thingie explain some things, yea sorta, but is it a good explanation, nah not really. It is what it is.
     
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  16. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Hinted at publically where the rest of us would know about it? Not that I think it particularly matters. That particular explanation is as inconsistent with his own story as.. well to follow a theme as it were.. each and every player being THE only one to read the Dire Prophesy.. and having the prophesy specifically name them the one and only Avatar.. all in the same world of course.. It just.. doesn't.. work. No explanation makes it work. It doesn't matter if Richard hinted at it at some point or not. Not even being fantasy can force clear contradictions to somehow work.

    If you're going to go the multi-verse influence route at all.. you're basically reforming the Gem of Immortality (at least in part) and who is doing that? (on the assumption it's even possible).. Of course.. the shards never had unique Avatars from Earth in the first place. They'd all be copies of the same 'hero from another world'.. and if copies of the artifacts survived the merger of shards.. when what about the people? If we want to say the copies of the same people merged then that'd be the case of the Avatar as well..

    There is no lore to suggest it was even possible to interplanetary travel between shards or in and out of shards. So any new avatars from the shards would be natives.. and not from Earth. Unless you want to make the argument that the entire universe was copies in each shard.. but that wasn't part of UO lore either which only states that the world was bound to the power of the Gem of Immortality.. (not the universe).

    So yeah.. multi-verse explanation isn't doing it for me.
     
  17. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I hope that eventually, the Shroud of the Avatar and the Dread Artifacts would only appear to *you*, and others wearing them would appear to be wearing something else. That way, we could at least be internally consistent that there are only one set of artifacts. Sure, conversation wouldn't bear that out, but it would still be so much better than 1001 Dread Artifacts...
     
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  18. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Another issue with the multi-verse theory is that it doesn't explain how the same 3 titans (and the people around them) are in the exact same situation over and over again with new artifacts and no memory of past resolutions or other outlanders coming to help.. all in the same world..

    If that weren't bad enough.. was not the bonesteel crown made in Artiface? You could theoretically explain the other two away as having unknown origins but if we know where the crown came from then it didn't originate from any kind of alternate universe. So the multi-verse idea doesn't explain why there's more than 1 crown.

    Only way around that might be to argue that all the Avatars are really in their own universe still.. but of course then why can we see each other's artifacts in the same world?

    Multi-verse.. causing more issues than it solves..
     
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  19. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    I'm not sure they are not. After all, we've been in this world for 125 years now. Every NPC is still alive, none have aged, and they keep coming back from the dead.

    Maybe Outlanders are not as special as we think.
     
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  20. Stundorn

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    @Bowen Bloodgood @Browncoat Jayson

    thats the typical logical issues with quests and MMORPG where all do the same quests, play the same story more or less.
    If Story were SP offline only and the MP Modes were the Sandbox with just "outlanders" and no main story - but why not still have introducing, learning, daylie... etc... quests - it would be 2 different things, but still the same game.
    They could also do an option to start offline, play the story and then transfer the character to online when done with the main quest.
    Than the multiverse version would maybe fit?!?
    doing the main story in this multivers and then going to a parallel where nothing of that happened?!?
    makes that more sense?

    ya, but splitting up is maybe too hard to overcome this. i'm undecided on this. just an idea.