[Poll] If there were substantial changes would you do it?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Antrax Artek, Jun 24, 2019.

?

Would you do PVP if there were changes to make it meaningful, rewarding and less punitive for all?

Poll closed Jul 8, 2019.
  1. Yes

    47.0%
  2. I already do it

    5.9%
  3. No

    47.0%
  1. Kara Brae

    Kara Brae Avatar

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    Maybe I shouldn't have voted … I voted no but my reason had nothing to do with the way PVP is implemented. I am just hopeless at fighting, so it's like asking me if I would jump out of a plane without a parachute if the ground were soft. :eek:
     
  2. Scoffer

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    I voted No. I'm just not interested in pvp at any level.
     
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  3. Hemswal The Descended

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    I voted yes. PvP is very fun.
     
  4. Dhanas

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    Times ago me and others pvpers already proposed to devs to totaly remove ransoms from ruins ( the ones where new players go for the quest), but keeping those in shardfall ( that are a bit more endgame ).
    Totaly removing ransom from the game is not a great idea, since we don't have other reward for what we do ( reagent spent, repair cost, risk to die), but i see The point: how it is now it discourage new players that don't know how to "game the system" and will lose huge ransoms vs veteran players that don't take any reward from pvp cause every veteran know how to game the system. A Balance should be find.

    At the same time, imo ganking is not something so negative, this is something that happens in every pvp game, and i Saw Many new players here ( interested to pvp, and coming from pvp games) asking for ganking groups, because usualy ganking in group is a pvp activity that suits for new players. I was Sad to tell them that there is No one to gank here because people don't flag if not veteran pvpers sometimes and there is too much safety, like using tp scroll while you see a question marker popping in the map.


    P.S. in any mmo game based on progression we can't pretend to have new players competing with veterans, it never happened in any game, except Fortnite and other battle royal and Moba games.
    Sota is one of the game i played, most based on progression, where you have almost an endless progression. That is the reason why i suggest to have capped Battlegrounds with cool rewards, available to both veterans and new player, both matched with ppl of their tier.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  5. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Edit: this was in response to @kaeshiva

    Exactly. If this were an RP game, when you kill someone in a non-sanctioned event or duel you can never go into a town again. That's it.

    As of now you just rob them and rob them and rob them.

    Even the sanctioned events I won't do anymore, it just irritates me too much to pay for my gear over... and over.... and over.... and over.... and over.... and over.... and over.... and over... and over... and over....

    And the "inventory junk juggle" is exploiting, I try to avoid that even when things come through that could make me a ton of gold.

    It needs to be looked at from a game design perspective, not a "This is what we did in UO, toned down a bit" perspective.

    What is good PvP game design? What is good team based? What is good "out in the wild"? What is good duel?

    From a modern perspective, what is good, successful PvP design? Charging the losers every time they die is probably not falling into the successful and modern categories.
     
  6. AbstraxPhoenix

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    im not saying it will take you for months just to start out pvping or pveing, I know a person who has barely been playing a month and is probably still more powerful then you will ever be. jokes aside, the person has only been playing about a month and can atleast compete against other pvpers and get them low. Like I already said, this is a mmo, you can't jump into pvp within a week in any mmo without paying to win.
     
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  7. AbstraxPhoenix

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    One thing that could work well is when you kill someone, you get a Skull Coin, and you still get a random body party. Currently when you kill people in the obsidian trials, you get a Obsidian Skull coin. so maybe get rid of the ransom system, and add this everywhere. so you dont lose anything if you die, but the killer still gets rewarded. with the obsidian skull coins, you can maybe sell them for gold to npcs, or you can trade them in for special items.
     
  8. Dhanas

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    If there are good reawrds to trade with skull coins i am all for it. I am afraid they remove ransoms without working on better rewards for skull coins.
     
  9. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Skull coins for buffs, used in place of silver/gold ingots for masterworking (or slavagable for silver/gold scrap), convert 5 into an ancient essence, If you were to allow them to be globally useful like this, what mechanic could hinder the ability to farm friends/alts for these resources?

    You could do "only allow 1 skull coin per individual killed per day" or something, and it would discourage repeat killing (outside of griefing), But still have people with tons of alt accounts.

    You could only allow a certain max amount of skull coins per day, but we se ein other aspects that throttling rewards isn't much fun overall.

    It actually seems like the easiest way to overcome the "farming alts" problem is to have the reward be taken from the victim.

    So if you want to apply that to skull coins (or maybe body parts instead), whatever the reward is, have everyone start with it at the beginning of the month. If you are killed in PvP, have it taken away, but now you no longer have it, and your killer has 2. This is getting way way too complicated already.

    probably some leaderboard related reward for UNIQUE kills. Its not alt proof, maybe make it where you only score 1 point off a person with 1 kill and cant score anymore off that person unless they get another kill. No that still wotn work.

    Having the rewards be something that moves from player to player and is generated by players via loot or crafting is literally the only alt-proof reward method I can think of at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  10. Hemswal The Descended

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    No, there needs to be a risk when you go into a risky situation.
     
  11. Cordelayne

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    Like going to a brothel without any condoms?
     
  12. AbstraxPhoenix

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    Yes I agree, but everyone complains about ransoms. If theres really anything that you lose if you die in pvp, tons of people will complain
     
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  13. Hemswal The Descended

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    Everyone does not complain about ransoms. Some people complain about ransoms.

    No matter what the system is, there will always be complaints.
     
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  14. AbstraxPhoenix

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    Ever heard of exaggerations?
     
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  15. Helvig Ingvildsdottir

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    There is a way to make everybody happy: Either make different zones have different rules, or let people pick their mode when entering a PvP area. They will then go to an instance where they find only people that have picked the same mode.

    Modes could be (Option 1 to 5 of course contain the bodypart, too, even if not explicitly mentioned):
    1. Full loot: For the hardcore PvPer that loves the big risks and big rewards.
    2. Drop a currently equipped item (no way to ransom): Be sure that you get something good, when you get to claim a ransom.
    3. Drop a currently equipped item (with ransom option, realistic price): Be sure you get something good or a nice amount of gold when you get to claim a ransom. (People that are very good could probably still make a "crap I'm dying" deck with worthless equippables and switch to it just in time for receiving the killing blow, but I assume the timing there is not easy)
    4. Drop all potions: Leaves the winner with a wild mix of useful and crappy potions as a reward, cripples the loser for the next fight.
    5. Drop two random items/item stacks (like today): End up with the occasional good item when someone forgot to grab their junk bag before jumping into the scene, but usually end up with junk because everyone in the scene games the system.
    6. Drop a bodypart and a small reward fee in gold, paid by the defeated: Get at least something, without making anyone hurt too much. For those that PvP for fun, not for reward.
    7. Drop a bodypart: For those that PvP just for fun or for trophies.
    8. Drop nothing: Softcore PvP for everyone.
    The options highlighted are options I'd strongly suggest, the others are nice IMO but perhaps too much choice.

    For fights outside of PvP areas with selected mode, there has to be a fix mode of course, for which personally I'd suggest Option 6 (bodypart and gold) or Option 5 (today's system), but I'm not passionate about that.

    Now combine that with skill caps for individual scenes, and you get a great number of different places for different preferences and skill levels. A top PvPer might never go to a zone where the skill cap is 80 and only body parts drop. But others may find it fun, and get increasingly more daring, working their way up into more and more dangerous scenes. Like with the PvE scenes, the usage should be monitored so that combinations of loot rules and skill caps that are found out to be rarely used can be changed to the more desirable options after a few months of trying. And heck who knows, perhaps a skill cap 60 full loot scene could be a great thing for fun and giggles and display of player skill.

    There should be an easy way to see which scene currently has players in it without having to enter each scene (but of course not reveal the players' identities before engaging them).

    PvE loot should also be adapted in these scenes. There has to be slightly better PvE loot in scenes where you can potentially lose a lot of gold than in scenes where there is little PvP risk. I say slightly better because, well, if you have the risk to loose something valuable in PvP also have the chance to get something valuable. And open PvP scenes with a skill cap and hard PvE challenges must get some extra reward, too. If your party is going to fight the dragon with a skill cap of 90 and the risk that a different party jumps you as soon as you are engaged in the PvE fight, the loot be better worth it. But PvE loot needs a lot of work anyways IMO...
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2019
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  16. Vladamir Begemot

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    It might be worth reading the comments on this Massively OP "who's got the best PvP" article.

    There aren't a ton of them, but it seems that there isn't a standout game unless you're in battlegrounds, gear and level is made even (not capped, even) or are playing Eve.

    It's an insane thing to try to make popular, open world uneven PvP where you punish the loser. And I think the lack of games that have pulled it off in the last decade proves it.
     
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  17. Fungus44

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    From announcement on kickstart many people flocked to SotA as the new fabled UO2.

    Rightly or wrongly many of those players believed it would be like the good old days however the key difference was what the majority of people actually perceived as being 'the good old days' and thus SotA became a poor man's Trammel and not Felucca as many hankered for. The majority of PvP'rs left, so now the PvP discussion just goes round and round in circles with no real solution from those who stayed to fight the good fight with ways to keep its flame burning (and kudos to them)

    You could argue that real life money influenced the Trammel like decision, but again that's an old story (conspiracy theory) and has been washed and dried way too many times

    The majority of SotA players don't wish to lose items, walk the land without risk unless it's an NPC they can attempt to run away and zone from.

    It won't change, and therefore IMHO forget PvP and focus on stuff that can be successfully integrated into the game, but until then go erm fishing............
     
  18. Ranger Hagge

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    I like the PvP already but one really simple fix:
    Make ransom only be 1 piece of gear that you are currently wearing and nothing else. That way you get rid pvp bags and the risk vs reward will make more sense. And people wouldnt have to worry about big stacks of regents etc.
     
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  19. Chrystoph Reis

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    Or just make it give the same rewards as Obsidian Trials. Tokens for titles etc.
     
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  20. Dhanas

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    This is the problem, reward of obsidian trial didn't attract people. Titles and emotes are not a good reward for pvp.