Portalarium Currency Sales (Please Read) -- (Dev) Replied

Lets work on definitions:

Pay to Win: In order to progress through the game and reach a "win" state you have to pay for it. Also can be described that in order to achieve the best equipment/levels in the game you have to pay for them. (Or the option is too unrealstic to achieve without it, such as playing for 8,000 hours)

Microtransactions: small payments, less than a dollar that give in game items. This would generally be a new shirt, cloak, weapon, shield. so .25 for a new shirt, .75 for a new weapon, etc.

3rd LB has said that he is considering making a free to play version of it, where to get past a certain point you do have to buy it. In some ways that turns it into some people will misconstrue that as pay to win or pay to play, but really.. it's a demo version. and maybe he'll give you the option of just buying the ability to play a slimmed down version with different features unlocked by buying them. (he hasn't mentioned anything other than a demo version though)

It is different from what he promised us, we get the full game, alpha/beta access of Episode one.. and depending on your pledge level, even more episodes. So if he changes the terms on others, but not us, he is well within his rights to do so if he chooses... (Not that I expect anything like that, he wants a fair transaction that is worthwhile to people, he has said he likes how League of Legends handles it.. you buy extras if you want, or you can play for free)

He has mentioned selling new skill trees though in a recent interview. Maybe that would apply to non-backers? or new episodes.

 

@Isaiah

You are using false terminology, and personally criticizing me this should not be allowed in a constructive idea thread.

My plan has 15$ transactions as examples this is in no way a micro transaction it is a company currency that is used to purchase these "expansion" features that can be traded on the in game market.

In one of the Developer Chats here on ShroudoftheAvatar.com had him stating if the team spent considerable time on a skill tree that you would be able to try it out but would need to buy it if you wanted to use it past an undetermined point so they can re cooperate costs for that development.

 

here is the video where he discusses it (he is in germany, it's in english)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l5224EIFEDA

skip to around 14 minutes for this specific subject. (15 minutes in is where he talks about the transaction options)

It sounds like he is discussing people who pick up the base episode 1, and then want future content that is created later.

I support those types of things, I spent $750 on this game so far (thinking of going to lord) not to just play the game, but to get all of the extra little goodies along with it. So I am already a part of this "paying to get stuff" group. And if you only pledged for the game alone and have that kind of mentality, then I understand that and I think you will find that you get what you want out of it, you get the game. I get extras...

 

Just from the kickstarter a lone you can see that there is a "paying for content" I wont get to win, i might have some advantage over lower tiers, but they just have to put in a little extra time or be a better player than me and I'll fall behind them. it isn't pay to win by any means.

sorry for spam.. wish I could edit my posts for a longer period of time... (I usually edit my posts quite a bit before I'm happy with them on forums)

 

@Sir Mishri

Yeah these forums are pretty terrible with the editing and barely any of the HTML tags and attributes work.

Yeah, I love the complaints I hear about pay 2 win on here if you paid 3.5k - 10k on Kickstarter you already win you will be the richest person for a LONG time.

I am looking into a solution that is actually on the verge of being anti-pay to win by letting players use in game currencies to unlock game content without having to spend real life capital. While at the same time Portalarium can make potentially more money by having a much larger purchasing power by leveraging paying customers.

No one is being taken advantage of this either since it will be traded with the in game escrow agent (the marketplace) so no scamming or other hazardous activities will occur in this system.

 

@ Gold Farmers

Also this system has a built in deterrent to Gold Farmers this currency actually begins to be worth more the more gold there is in the system it is basically ?self leveling? lets say gold sellers hit the market and people start buying a lot of gold from them.

Let's say they increase the amount of gold in circulation by 20%, this would increase the price of the ?British Bars? by up to 20%, this happens when a commodity becomes more common, or there is more of it in circulation the price naturally decreases?

This means the more sales the gold farmers sold the more they have to lower their prices and raise the amount of gold they are giving to still compete with ?British Bars.?

 

Isaiah THANKYOU, I thought I was losing my mind and had some how gone to the wrong website, especially when B agreed with this. We were SPECIFICALLY promised NO MICROTRANSACTIONS, that the ONLY things they would charge for was going to be things that take a lot of work like whole new skill trees if they made them, effectively expansion packs and yet here we are with people ADVOCATING not just microtransactions but a pay to win system which would ALSO cause rapid inflation destroying the ability of the rest of the players to play and even the crafters to craft AND B agreeing with them

 

I might need to get in on this discussion !! Let me collect my thoughts first.

 

@ Sir Asguard

I specifically stated this whole concept was meant for spending on "expansion, skill trees, and the sort" not micro transactions it is fine if you do not read the thread at all and have an opinion on it, but to post the exact opposite of what this system does - is a little dull.

What the system was conceptually designed for, was to create a way for people to buy "expansions, skill trees, and the sort" specifically...

This system is anti-pay 2 win actually since a player can use in game currency to buy "British Bars" on the marker to then purchase these "expansions, skill trees, and the sort" and in return another player gets that players currency based on the agreed price on the market.

Also this system is inflation PROOF!!!

@Summary!

This is how the system works for everyone skipping to page 3!

Basically at this point there is no NPC that will redeem the ?British Bars? into ?British Bucks? to do this you have to use the escrow system built into the game lets call it a ?market? to sell your ?British Bar? which is worth 15 USD but worth absolutely nothing in game, to ?British Bucks? which is worth absolutely nothing in the real world, but it is worth money in game.

This is 100% inflation proof no money is being created, it is just a commodity that is being traded from one player to another.

Player A wants a 15 USD expansion and has loads of in game money that he earned just like everyone else.
Player B has USD and wants in game money to buy things with.

We help both these players! Without inflating anything, it is basically just leveraging players willing to spend money.

There are NO downsides that would negatively effect someone that is not using this system.

There is 1 main downside for someone that is using this system, that would be at launch there will be little to no value to a "British Bar" since nothing will be available to buy with it most likely. However, over time with more expansion content and goods to buy with real money it will slowly grow in perceived value, this offers an excellent time for traders to take advantage of this opportunity and all the arbitrage ( buy low, sell high) possibilities with this system. I believe this will make it so the "British Bar" currency is always worth some in game "British Buck" currency.

 

@Gunga Din

Yes! Please do the more the merrier we need more ideas and more points of view, if time permits try to read the majority of the thread so you can get a strong idea of this idea and all the possible issues we could run into.

Thanks Gunga Din looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

This is how SWTOR raised USD for their game:

There you use USD to purchase cartel coins. Those coins could be used to purchase cosmetics or cartel packs. The cartel packs had items (cosmetics etc) that could be sold on the market.

The only thing is, you weren't allowed to purchase the cartel coins from another player, only the items they used their cartel coins on (Cosmetics or the packs).

If you didn't want to purchase any cartel coins with USD, all you had to do is use you in game currency (Credits) to purchase packs people listed on the GTN for sale. Most of the items people bought with cartel coins could be resold to in game players for credits.

Either way, in game currency will be needed.

"Player A wants a 15 USD expansion and has loads of in game money that he earned just like everyone else.
Player B has USD and wants in game money to buy things with."

See here, player A will need loads of in game currency. Won't he need to purchase it from a gold seller, if he doesn't have loads of currency? Am I missing something?

To block the gold seller, SotA's "Gold Bars" would have to be untradeable to other players for in game currency.

 

"Also this system has a built in deterrent to Gold Farmers this currency actually begins to be worth more the more gold there is in the system it is basically ?self leveling? lets say gold sellers hit the market and people start buying a lot of gold from them.

Let?s say they increase the amount of gold in circulation by 20%, this would increase the price of the ?British Bars? by up to 20%, this happens when a commodity becomes more common, or there is more of it in circulation the price naturally decreases?

This means the more sales the gold farmers sold the more they have to lower their prices and raise the amount of gold they are giving to still compete with ?British Bars.?

This won't really deter them, they just won't make as much per transaction.

 

@Gunga Din

Hey,

Player A was a model based after a large portion of gamer's that hate to spend money after they buy the game. Player A was the type of player that rather play a lot of hours to be able to buy 1 "British Bar" to get an expansion just to be able to say he didn't spend money on it.

Player A is not the type of player that would buy from a gold seller. Even if he was why would he if he could buy it straight from Portalarium for 15 USD.

Player B on the other hand is the type of player that would buy from a gold seller so instead he is able to have the "non-payers" pay him money for his "British Bar" he purchased from Portalarium.

That is the idea.

SWTOR just added another unnecessary step by letting people sell the individual things they purchased with their USD currency and then trade it. Instead of just letting them sell the coins so people could pick what they want.

 

Yea, I see your point. Its the purchasing the "British Bar" from Portalarium (USD) vs Purchasing the "British Bar" using in game currency - provided by a gold seller (USD). If you are willing to pay a gold seller, why not just pay Portalarium.

However, what if a player does not want to spend (USD) and can't make enough in game currency to purchase the "British Bar" ?

SWTOR did it this way because people complained about the items becoming unattainable by casual gamers. They considered new cosmetics and additions in this manner as content. This caused issues with people complaining that they were denied content because they could not afford to purchase cartel coins.

The British Bars would have to be cheap enough that people could earn them in game with relative ease.

 

What is this about thread about? This formula is applied to nearly all recent online games now, it is kind of redundant to be talking about it.

It would only be news if Portalarium actually CHANGED the silly formula being used and locked people out of "gold farming" and whatever else you want to call it.

I say, open up the online transactions. I don't have a lot of time, I don't have a lot of patience, and I don't have a lot of compassion for other players. What I do have enough of is cash. Let me buy what I need in a short period of time so I can dominate this game in whatever way it can be dominated. Don't oppress me with your socialism.

Please and thank you,
IM.

 

The good thing about SotA is that it isn't going to follow the "Rules" that the standard online games play by these days. Those little transactions are a huge turn off to me and I'm assuming the majority of the kickstarters who backed this game thinking this stuff will not be in the game.

I won't be addressing this thread again because this is ridiculous. I'm with you Sir Asguard this thread has lost it's mind, and is totally out of place in this game. Such transactions mechanicalize the game and loses immersion. I have no problem with what Lord British said regarding facilitating transactions for gold farmers, but this goes beyond that.

This isn't debatable since RG specifically stated his stance on this. If he changed it I'm sure we will see. Nevertheless I'm taking note of those voices who are trying to stir things up and am gathering a picture of who might actually be real fans and false members of this community that only want to bring up ideas to ruin this game or turn people off to it. Again the only thing that really bothered me is the Dev B seeming to buy into this. Either I grossly misunderstood RG or B needs to listen to his boss better.

 

There is one other issue with using the "British Bars" (micro transaction) for cosmetics or other items, you end up having the developers lose focus of the game / content.

In SWTOR, their Cartel shop / packs / coins, ended up being their primary concern and they neglected the rest of the game. Soon, the only new content was any updates they made to their cartel shop and items for sale.

Thats a reason I left the game recently.

 

@Gunga Din

(1st post)

Your 1st Question:
However, what if a player does not want to spend (USD) and can?t make enough in game currency to purchase the ?British Bar? ?

My answer:
They would play they game normally and just ignore that system all together they can still buy expansions etc. with real life money when released.

Your Statement:
The British Bars would have to be cheap enough that people could earn them in game with relative ease.

My answer:
The "British Bars" value in "British Bucks" is determined by the players trading on the market. So it will be the same cost as whatever someone would pay for it.

@InsaneMembrane

Your Statement:
What is this about thread about? This formula is applied to nearly all recent online games now, it is kind of redundant to be talking about it.

My answer:
This model is slightly different then any current model it is more of slight variation of Eve Online's PLEX system built to function on a free to play platform.

Your Statement:
What I do have enough of is cash. Let me buy what I need in a short period of time so I can dominate this game in whatever way it can be dominated.

My answer:
Luckily this system is supply and demand based, and you need an actual player to pay for a "British Bar" for it to be worth anything... So it would be very difficult to abuse it to the point of any large advantage.

@Isaiah *MGT470*

Your Statement:
Those little transactions are a huge turn off to me and I?m assuming the majority of the kickstarters who backed this game thinking this stuff will not be in the game.

My answer:
Listen companies and businesses need to pay bills to keep the lights on, if there is no income between development cycles then the game falls apart as the team falls apart. Guild Wars 2 has a similar model to how Portalarium is doing SotA, if Guild Wars 2 stopped and transactions from occurring other than full expansions the game would be shut down very quickly.

Basically you can choose to sell content, or they could do another crowd funding round between each release... this could also work.

However, Kickstarter rewards are 10x more pay to win then this system, if you donate more then 750 USD this Kickstarter you will be FAR better off then if you bought 50 "British Bars" and tried to unload them on a free player driven market.

@Gunga Din

(2nd Post)

Your Statement:
There is one other issue with using the ?British Bars? (micro transaction) for cosmetics or other items, you end up having the developers lose focus of the game / content.

My answer:
In the model I presented there are no cosmetic items.

And as a counter to that look at League of Legends, they produce cosmetics for champions, and they make a great deal of their money on this; however, they have never lost sight of their development. They have done multiple graphics overhauls, they are always adding new champions, updating the whole item store each season, as well as rolling out weekly balance fixes between major patches. So that is not always the case.

Your Statement:
In SWTOR, their Cartel shop / packs / coins, ended up being their primary concern and they neglected the rest of the game. Soon, the only new content was any updates they made to their cartel shop and items for sale

My answer:
This was an Electronic Arts game, they need these games to be profitable they have stockholders breathing down their neck. SWTOR was an extremely high budget game estimates are well over 200 million for the development, they though this MMO would unseat WoW as the premier MMO, when this did not occur they needed to attempt to recover as much as they could from the failed project.

So, they went for a money grubbing monopolization of SWTOR to try and make it profitable to minimize their stockholders loses.

 

Isiah.. wow.. B said, "good thoughts, thanks" and you take that to mean, "Yeah, lets ride this pony! woohoo!!"... I dunno buddy. slow those horses down a bit.. we are just discussing some potential things that might benefit portalarium and the player base. We wouldn't even be discussing it if any of this thought it might harm anything.

You have to admit that real money has played a part in every multiplayer game, including UO. This is a discussion on being involved in it, and curbing the negative influences on it.

All of the current MMORPGS that i'm aware of, sell these types of items for real money for in-game items, UO does it, WoW does it, SWOTR does it... Is it right just because they do it? no, but that is what we are discussing here, how is it right, who does it benefit, who does it hurt?


also... i left swotr because after the story line it was incredibly boring to play... cartel coins had nothing to do wit it.. (not that the story line was all that compelling to begin with, but i wanted to give it a real shot, i had high hopes)

You could say I have the same hopes for SoTA, except we have a top notch writer who I have really enjoyed reading, and an amazing and visionary video game designer(s). I don't think we'll be disappointed.

 

No... Just no...