Progressing through the game without combat/mage skills

Ok. Im sick and tired of games that always expect you to battle your way through with weapons and spells and fighting skills. I think there should always be an alternative to play a character that does not use combat or magic at all, yet is still an adventurer. If the stealing skill is going to be completely nerfed for PvP like it was in UO, then at least allow the rogue type character to be playable in PvE. NPC's don't care if there stolen from, there NPC's! In UO the PvE rogue player sat around in yew abbey waiting for chests to spawn all day long. Not that that was completely boring, but it could have been much much more interesting. And then if you started a character and selected the stealing skill, well... you pretty much made a crippled character who could do practically nothing. Level one chests cant be opened with the "stealing" skill. You couldnt even steal from NPC's! That really got on my nerves... I wanted to be a theif, and the ONLY way I could do it is if I macroed my stealing skill all the way up to GM, because, you know... you cant do anything with that skill unless your GM. Then go over to felucca and try to steal from another player... but unfortunately the goodies they have are all banked by the time they go to felucca all that is left is bandages, regs, and exceptional quality weapons which only can be stolen a few at a time and really the only thing that stealing was good for was flagging yourself grey to lure people to attack you. Dont even bother with halberds, they are too heavy to steal.
Basically what im saying here is: GIVE US ROGUE CHARACTERS! Yes, trammel rogue characters as well as PvP. But having rogues is not the only thing I want to touch on this thread...
The other thing I want to bring up is that there should be a way to stealth around and make your way through dangerous quests and dungeons by being cunning and sneaky. Maybe your not a rogue or a theif. Your more like a hobbit and you acquire your loot and play through the game by being able to fit in those small spaces that a big tough heavily armoured warrior cannot. Instead of valiantly slaying the dragon at the end of the dungeon you lure him into a trap. Havent you played a game where the main boss doesnt have hit points and instead you have to run around the area and activate all the switches to defeat the boss? Why cant we have this sort of thing? No, we cant just allow all players to be able to easily defeat a dragon with 2000 gold on it's carcass just by hitting a few switches. It has to be a challenge regardless. Its just the alternative to casting spells repeatedly, or swinging your sword, drinking potions and using bandages till the dragon's hit points are zero. Flipping the death switches will have to be challenging, dangerous, and time consuming, and the only way you can do it is by having very developed stealth skills or something.
Now I can see how this could be abused in a group/party situation where you have the wizard, the knight actually in combat with the dragon while the hobbit stealths around looking for the death switches. Maybe when you first meet the dragon you have to vote for what challenge you want, to pull the switches, or to engage in combat with the dragon. If you choose death switches then the dragon doesnt have HP and is invincible and the wizard and knight are just there to soak damage for the hobbit while he finds the switches.
Bottom line, what I want is alternatives to combat and magery for game progression. You should be able to finish each quest in the game with the style of play of your choice. If your a merchant... Maybe the goal will be to assemble a group that will take you through the dungeon of whatever safely. So you will be stuck in a village to mine and smith(or fish). Until you have made enough gold to hire the team that you need to progress. If you dont collect the appropriate amount of money to hire the team with the appropriate skills/strength to safely guide you through the dungeon then you and your team are going to be slaughtered. The "team" will be all NPC's if your single player online/offline. But in friends only/OPO you'll have actual human player options as well. There would be many ways to pay the player/NPC. You could learn about the dungeon your going to by reading books in the local library then show the NPC or player the book and promise them the treasure if they take you through the dungeon thus allowing you to get to the next town which has new and improved resources for your trade. Or you could pay them all out of pocket... And if your a rogue.... you could possibly find some way to have your cake and eat it too! (I dont know how this will work with other players... since we still dont know how PvP will play out, but if your going to screw over another player by grabbing the loot and leaving nothing for them it might be considered "greifing"... but if I cant do that to other players, PLEASE allow us to scam NPC's as much as we like! >=-P)

 

Oh yes I have and enjoyed them completely. The Legacy of Kain and Soul Reaver Series. Soul Reaver was more or less a full blown series that played like Ocarina of Time's Water Temple. Where every boss battle besides the end was using the environment to defeat the bosses.
Every game in that series was pretty awesome except for Legacy of Kain Defiance. In some places the camera panning is completely jacked up and it becomes your worst enemy.
And overall great series though

 

Interesting. I was kinda thinking of conker's bad fur day where your not at all tough or anything like that. You just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and conker uses his cunning and wit to progress through the game. This is a pure comedy game and all, but it definitely involves using cunning and wit to overcome everything more than any game I have ever seen. I guess zelda is the only other non-comedy game that does this since in zelda theres not really any experience points or skill gaining. Its all about using your brain and your tools you have available to get through. In conker's bad fur day you don't carry the tools with you. You just press B when the lightbulb appears over your head and theres your tool... its "context sensitive" =P. Conker never builds his skills or strength, he just is adventuring through the game. Hes just a red squirrel. And he gets attacked by all kinds of nasty critters. Giant hornets, a poop monster, evil teddies, a robotic hay stack.... He defeats his opponents by using the environment against them all. So why cant there be the option to play through the game this way if you are looking to pursue a career as an adventuring merchant?

 

Yea, I'm ready to stop fighting my way through everything.
Lets find other ways to complete your goals.

 

Quite agree. The lack of diversity in playstyle is what made games like WoW uninteresting to me. No matter what different type of character I was, my only option was to attack every enemy until one of our hit point reached zero. Well, or run haphazardly through every dungeon to see where I ended up, but it was pretty clear I wasn't supposed to do that.

My main gripe, other than monotonous button-pressing being boring, is that a lot of games seem to assume that you either want to kill or get quests from NPCs. An orc? Evil monster to be killed in combat, no sneaking by, no tricking them, no disguising yourself, no diplomatic solutions (Kobolds attacking hunters might very well just be angry that someone stole something from their camp, in which case it might make a lot of sense to convince them to let you find the culprit), just combat.
It's probably unreasonable to expect too much diversity in the options for such a huge world, but it would be nice to have some elements that allow you to be a rogue, a charismatic bard or a mage with sleep spells or mind-control spells. A bit like the Deus Ex games, where some paths let you sneak by the enemies, some let you simply knock them out and others let you murder them mercilessly. It's probably not easy to make so many options for SotA, though. ^_^'

 

Agreeing with OP. If I want to play a gatherer/crafter I should not be forced to fight monsters or PK's to get my resources. If there's no options other than fighting it becomes a one dimensional game, and everyone will end up running the same templates. Look at ultima online for proof. 90 percent of people run identical templates due to this issue

Other options should include stealthing, speech etc. As completely viable.

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I was always amazed to see characters on UO who displayed titles such as 'Grandmaster Herder", or one of the, shall we say. 'less useful' UO skills. It says a lot about a game to have skills like that, and a lot about a player who takes the time to master a skill like that. I hope SotA carries on that tradition.