PVP QUE FEEDBACK

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ShurTugal, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    Yes, guild wars 2 is a great example of a system that is well fleshed out. maybe if they came out with PVP specific gear or stats that people can work on to that is seperate from pve stats. I've seen that approach and it works well to.
     
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  2. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    Great idea. In Crowfall, the NPC's are basically AI players with player moves, responses reactions based on the race/class/build they are running. this uncertainty on if your fighting an actual human or AI cause they both act the same sounds very intriguing. :)
     
  3. krakenvarados

    krakenvarados Avatar

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    That PVP QUEUE is absolutely a BULLSHIT.
    why i need to know with WHO i am doing pvp and in that case i can accept/refuse the duel????that absolutely inappropriate. in every MMORPG u DON'T KNOW who u are going to duel until u don't ACCEPT IT
     
  4. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    <3
     
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  5. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    This isnt a pvp queue. This is a LF DUEL list... an expansion of the LFG channel. Nobody asked for this.
    Unprotected Avatars have been asking for a RANKING SYSTEM that isnt broken or exploited.
    The current system is broken and exploited.
    Via multiple bugs/issues:
    1. Fall damage steals kills.
    2. Chaotic feedback steals kills.
    3. Torpid torment steals kills.
    4. Pets steals kills.
    5. Mobs steals kills.
    6. Resurrection immunity now allows players to attack while immune.
    This queue system is pointless without anonymity and a ranking system as discussed by @devilcult and many others in the thread.
    @Mangar has created an elaborate version of a ranking system afaik that could function if implemented.

    Nobody asked for a LF DUEL list. We can already do this with the LFG window anyways.

    @Chris said on stream that I was a proponent of this concept. I NEVER asked for any queue whatsoever. I believe in the sandbox concept of the game and to have players create content. What is needed for players to create content is what I would like to see. But before that can happen, the @Devs need to fix all the god damn bugs in the game and stop adding stuff that breaks game integrity and game balance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  6. Jikininki

    Jikininki Avatar

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    I busted my ass for my high skills. Tbh, my player skill is trash, the only thing I have going for me is my time spent grinding xp for high levels in the skills I use. Anyone in the game can get good gear. Anyone in the game can get xp (especially now) If they don’t want to, then that means they may not be able to do ALL things in the game and that’s ok. (I don’t want to be a fire mage, so I can’t attenuate on my own. It’s the choice I made) I don’t mind losing, but if the pvp que capped my skill levels and stripped my gear, I would heartbreakingly pass. Which sucks because I want this que and have been looking forward to it! This is why we don’t pvp in opalis.
    Also showing us who’s in que? Terrible idea, especially with the tiny population we have.
    Additionally the scoring based on adv level is wack. Level means very little in the game when it comes to pvp. Look at one of our current top pvpers, he’s level 113(?) and whopping asses of level 135+ players. So with this system, you’re saying a player like this would rack up points, which is fine because they’re very good, but if a level 136 beat them, the higher lvl player gets no points. Despite that they’re are actually not an uneven match. Please consider a ranking points system. If someone gets 100 kills in the que, they should be worth points no matter their adv level.
     
  7. Sulaene Moon

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    It pretty much is a LF duel and not a proper pvp function. Oh well.
     
  8. Mylady ‘Gin Gin Darlin

    Mylady ‘Gin Gin Darlin Avatar

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    I offered a suggestion not an absolute. Hardly worth roasting me for. Are you just trying to start an argument or something?
     
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  9. Bow Vale

    Bow Vale Avatar

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    imo the game doesn't need this, just like it didn't need battlegrounds or whatever it was they introduced a while back.

    All it needed was Factions. I don't see their issue with putting factions into the game but its been so long now, even after promises from years back that they would be looking into it, or have actually started planning it....that they aren't coming. Factions with something to fight over, promoting team play/community between players, allows all levels of experience and play styles to play together and work towards goals. Instead this rewards by the sound of it solo play, 1v1, and doesn't do nowt to foster any sort of community... doa
     
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  10. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    I hear what your saying and I appreciate your feedback. thank you. Let me explain further where I am coming from. First, I agree, adventure level is meaningless and any system based around that is doomed to failure. Also @Chris @Elgarion your really diluting the pool with the number of catagories your designing, specially now with as small of a population as we have. It needs to be kept simple, a unranked and ranked system (or some variation of that) where there is a minimum to joined the ranked matches, maybe based on points earned in unranked battles. maybe there can be different number of points for different things, kills, assists, wins, captures (assuming we have something more fun than just a ring match), you get the idea.

    I understand your argument about "busting my ass for my high skills". To that end, maybe we could have Ranked and unRanked matches or some variation of that (as explained above) where in the ranked matches nothing is done to "level the playing field" but we have to think big picture here and the big picture is to get people who may not be inclined to actually want to pvp to pvp so they can build their confidence and enjoyment so that they get hooked. If we can't get more people to jump on the pvp bandwagon than it doesn't matter how good the system is that is designed, its doomed to fail.

    The problem with pitting a person or group of people who have 2+bill exp dropped into say earth tree (or some other variation) and a person with 200 mill dropped into a tree is that the first person has much much more power at their finger tips and they will ravage the second person which will discourage people who are dabbling in pvp from ever jumping fully in. I've seen some of the crits people like fzol and others inflict on people. Its insane. The argument, which I have heard, that they just have to die over and over and over and over again until they get better is not realistic. A vast majority of people in today's world would walk away from that which means people will NOT join your pvp system which means it fails. Maybe that's a hard truth to grasp now (it is for me) but we have to live in reality land if we want to succeed and not some world we create in our heads where people act how we think they SHOULD act.

    The point of "leveling the playing field" (I really hate that term by the way, very socialistic. ugh!) is to make the matches more about your knowledge of the skills you have, how to use them, how to counter your opponents use of skills, etc than about who has the highest level fire arrow. Guild Wars 2 does this really well. When you enter into the PVP area, your character is scaled to the highest level and your given all the skills and other things you would have earned once you got your character to max level and then you have to create the builds based on that so that when your in the fights, your fighting with ALL the tools you could potentially have and it becomes about who uses those tools the best. Once you leave the pvp zone, your character goes back to what ever level you had achieved. this is ONLY about levels and tools and NOT about the gear you wear. I believe there is seperate PVP specific gear you can get to add to it. In star wars the old republic, there is a specific PVP stat that only matters in PVP matches. I don't know if we want to go with that idea but its an idea that's been done and vetted and seems to work in those other games. Good luck in star wars the old republic fighting a pvp match if your not in pvp gear. :)

    Ultimately, I believe for us to succeed in this endeavor, we need to have an entry level system in place (like unranked matches) where the playing field is leveled so players can learn and grow without being demoralized. By all means, lets have a Ranked system (or some variation) where people can go insane but there needs to be a reasonable path forward for the carebears among us so that we can turn them into wolves.

    Also, rewards, rewards, rewards, and great ones, even for the losers because lets be honest here to, regardless how "fair" the system is made, noobs will die over and over and over until they finally learn and so we need to sweeten the experience a little to keep them engaged. Clearly the winners need to have Amazing prizes that far exceed that of the losers but if people don't have a "reason to fight" beyond just fighting, they won't. This game has a terrible history of properly rewarding players. Please learn from that when you design this system. that's my view and thanks to everyone for giving their feedback and keeping things civil. :)
     
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  11. DavidDC

    DavidDC The New Guy Moderator SOTA Developer

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    I said it many many many times over 3-4 year the times i played this game and ill say it again. The deck system is a pita, cannot work, cannot be balanced. It was a cool idea, best of them. But it doesnt work. Remove dynamic deck, keep static, balance the game, and rejoyce. This will eliminate the level gap between players and fix half of the problems in the world.
     
  12. Rook Strife

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    All backwards. It should be "Lets make a feedback thread so we can"


    Make combat far more enjoyable and engaging for our current playerbase

    Improve it so it appeals to a much larger audience



    Then you can worry about advanced PVP queues, battlegrounds and leaderboards
     
  13. Crowquills

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    Wrong. I was "ravaged" as you say by Alexander John when I was a lowbie player. This only fueled my desire for more exp and pvp knowledge. Just sayin'.

    If they die on their first try to a boss mob, you dont give up. You learn what went wrong and get better and come back better equipped and with more experience. This is the essence of player versus player combat. Eventually you reach a soft cap. You learn the counters.
    THIS IS NOVIA!!!

    I agree, but the rewards can be the same. Just easier to get if you are good. Eventually the top players will get the rewards and "move out of the way"... just like in most games.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
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  14. Crowquills

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    HELL NO. The deck system is the best thing about this game. Its a work of ART. A genuinely REMARKABLE achievement imho. Its balanced because its not restrictive at all and everyone has the same amount of possible decks and choices. There is no balancing a game anymore. The cat is out of the bag. As my bro has said in many posts before; adjust, evolve or fail.
    The deck building system is the same for everyone. Everyone can respec their exp. There are no excuses. Builds exist and counters exist. Learn them. Be a jack of all trades like me or be a focused sharp blade like Fzol. It's up to everyone to chose. Fairness is in the fact that we can all decide on our own.
    The ONLY problem is legacy masterworks with new heavyweight masterworks on 2handed items.
    These items cannot be crafted anymore and they need to either be removed completely or fixed somehow or allow everyone to make them too.
     
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  15. Crowquills

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    Nobody wants dumbed-down pvp.
     
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  16. Rook Strife

    Rook Strife Avatar

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    loooooooooooooooooooooool

    The only thing remarkable is how you can break practically every part of combat and yet still have people defend it


    More like,

    Nobody wants Sota pvp.



    Honestly it's this kind of feedback that the game is in such a broken mess

    Great job guys, our combat's wonderful. Just need to tweak this skill....
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  17. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    That's your experience and that's great. we have this issue as humans of taking our experiences and pasting them onto others as if others will behave the same way we will. The reality is, most don't. Another reality we need to accept, we live in care bear land. Novia is care bear land. Look at some of the activities that draw crowds. can anybody say dance parties??? You want a hard ass approach to the pvp que, you will only have very few who will utilize it. Look who actually really pvp's in the game currently. Its not a lot. the same names keep circulating. Also I would make the point, Raids, while challenging (at least at first) are part of care bear land to because a raid is all about Ai's that do very specific things in very specific patterns and once you learn the patterns and the moves and counters you have to do, your golden. Pvp on the other had is constantly changing. Your going up against a real player who is acting and then reacting to what your doing. Nothing predetermined there so its much more intimidating for a lot of people. If we want to have ANY luck converting any of these carebears to wolves, we can't give them the fire hose to the face. They will need an entry level version of the Que to ease into it and learn the ropes. Yes, even then they will probably die, a lot but putting the heal to their throats and stepping down hard will not win them to our side. That's not saying we can't have a hard ass pvp que mode to because we can. Like many things, its not an either or. We can have both and we need to recognize that we probably NEED both.
     
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  18. ShurTugal

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    lol, maybe YOU don't want "sota pvp". many of us do, except done right. :)
     
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  19. Rook Strife

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    You just made 2 contradictory posts lol


    At any rate, when you say "us" what it boils down to is a small portion of people in a game with a tiny playerbase.


    If they ever want to see some real numbers, they're gonna need to make some changes to our combat.




    Here's an example of some of the skillful non-dumbed down Sota PVP vs what you see in other games


    Sota = Take an air mage and spam off a limitless number of stuns

    Other Games = Limited number of stuns

    Rando spamming stuns vs the well-timed and executed stuns you see in other games.

    Yes. Much better PVP


    And here's an example of some of this Fantastic Combat our players seem to enjoy

    Not reliably even being able to send a pet in to initiate a basic attack

    Superb
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  20. Ancev

    Ancev Bug Hunter

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    Yeah Shadowbane had a nice way of handling stuns.. there was an assortment of dispel-able debuffs like snares, stuns, power blocks, attack debuffs, defense debuffs, bleeds, etc. Normal high level heals could cure bleeds.

    When you cast a stun on someone, it gave them like 3x the amount of stun immunity. So if you hit someone with a 9 sec stun it gave them 27 seconds of immunity - so the first 9 seconds were basically nullified because the player was unable to do anything but then after that the player had 18 seconds of pretty much total stun immunity - if someone used a stun on them again it refreshed the stun immunity so the attacking player had to use correct timing to utilize the stuns properly, especially the long stuns.

    Power Blocks could be just as effective because if you hit someone with a powerblock it prevented them from using skills for a certain amount of time, but if you hit your opponent with a power block while they were using a heal spell for example, they wouldn't be able to use that school of spells for 2x the amount of power block duration iirc. Using stuns and power blocks together were very effective. The hit point pools in Shadowbane were much larger and the damage from skills and spells were balanced enough so that 1 hit kills were mostly a rarity unless the character was sitting down to rest. (you regenerated more hp and mana, but you took a big damage multiplier if someone caught you resting)

    I'm for the making the game more accessible to a larger audience of players. Wish the skill and combat system was more like UO or other popular MMO's and properly balanced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020