PVP QUE FEEDBACK

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ShurTugal, Jul 24, 2020.

  1. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    I hole heartily agree with your assessment regarding combat. I have some things I believe should be addressed BEFORE tackling this pvp thing to. Unfortunately, I have no influence over them and they seem set to walk down this path so I am merely giving feedback on my opinion. To be honest, I don't believe in an instant they will actually implement any of what I want so ultimately, I'm just talking to the wall. Also, I anticipate that they will do what they always do, implement a half hearted "queish" that never really gives people what they actually want and then say "good enough" and move on. If past behavior is predictive of future action, than I have every reason to believe this is what they will do..... apparently good enough is good enough is the battle cry around here.........
     
  2. Joe Zhudarak

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    @Rook Strife

    1 - You get Crowd control resistance that stack each time you have CC effect;
    2 - Knights grace remove stuns

    I know its hard to get these information because a lot of stuff is hidden, but for almost every skill in this game you have some kind of counter.


    Torpid removes air shield and chaotic feedback for example
    knights grace removes bleed, stuns, slows
    Purify confusion, fire dots
    Escape removes stuns and slows
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  3. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    As a Trammy/Care bear -- I agree!

    I go to the dance parties sometimes because people are there that I like, the music is good (DS has great taste IMHO) and it's something to do - but I get bored very quickly and wish there was something active to do. Most of them you can't even fish at, because they're not near water.

    My FAVORITE dance party ever was the one Alleine did on Torc Dawl's island -- people could dance & AFK, others could fish, I could kill Torc Dawl every so often to try and protect the dancers/afkers, I think there were a few PVPers ... it was fun.

    Also --
    I would like to maybe do PVP, but anonymously, without affecting PVE gear, and with a way to start from the ground up and learn without being harassed or tormented in game or outside of the game, since the current PVP "vibe" I feel from SOTA PVP is a lot of aggression, name calling, taunting/teasing, bullying, etc. and that's not why I play SOTA. (Sorry if that is wrong, but that is my observation from the PVE world)

    I have a very stressful life, and I come to SOTA to escape and try to have some fun - which is getting much harder these days.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  4. Joe Zhudarak

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    @Echondas

    Feel free to send me a PM when you online, ill duel you without ransom. Im always open to learn and teach about pvp
     
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  5. Prada

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    Perhaps PVP schools are in order?

    The level thing bothers me, a Jack of all Trades non PVP precisionist is at an extreme disadvantage.

    Possible solution: Not unlike the combat deck system...could their be a skill tree system? You select the pre-trained tree? Certainly convenient, and offers a use for longer term players for their experience, while creating an incentive to "Trudge" forward and gain more...
     
  6. Rook Strife

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    The point was skillful use of stuns vs rando spamming them.

    Not even gonna talk about this games idea of counters lol


    Pretty much sums it up

    You never know though. Maybe these guys will wake up one day and start getting at some of the underlying issues.

    At least they'll have some general ideas how to go about it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  7. Crowquills

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    Correction:
    Legacy masterworks and enchanting with new heavyweight masterworks and enchanting on 2handed items.
     
  8. Crowquills

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    Thats an air mage... I kill them with a fucking sneeze... its the playstyle. Nothing special and very VERY EASY TO RESIST if you know how to counter... but you clearly dont want to do the work or think just a bit...

    At least I agree on the pet part... :p
     
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  9. Crowquills

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    You are just mad because you are probably light armor and cant do anything about stuns other than putting on a shield... but you are most likely an archer too... guess what you just met your counter.... an air mage...
    Either get some stun resist on your helm, wear heavy chest piece and put a shield on and stack bolster balance and torpid the air mage and kill it while it tries to stun you repeatedly with futility...

    We arent here to give training lessons about pvp, this is about the pvp queue also, stick to the subject please
     
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  10. Crowquills

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    I dont find that I have any problems playing my bard/taming spec against the best pvpers in the game. I can even win sometimes while outnumbered... lvl has nothing to do with it.
     
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  11. Rook Strife

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    What does killing an air mage have to do with anything lol

    The issue was

    How is rando spamming stuns more skillful or entertaining than having a limited number of them and using them strategically


    At any rate, you are correct. This is not the place to discuss combat.


    Main point I have been trying to bash into these guys heads is that our combat compared to what else is out there is terrible

    Might want to address that if they ever hope to fill these pvp queues
     
  12. Prada

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    My apologies, I failed to type enough words to make sense I'm afraid...

    I meant that "Level" may not be the best tiering metric to rank player strength for a PVP QUE. Perhaps attributes and total experience trained would be better than level?

    And I would love to see a skill tree system that allowed various options like the combat deck system does...many possibilities, and creates an EXP sink/incentive for senior players...
     
  13. Ancev

    Ancev Bug Hunter

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    PvP is definitely an acquired taste in this game.
     
  14. Crowquills

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    Attributes would definitely be the best option, but for total experience trained, that wouldnt that be a good metric, I take everything in the game because I like to have it all, I dont necessarily use it all, just like to have a lot of GMs. Like I said in a previous post, you can be a jack of all trade or a sharpened knife with billions in 1 tree. That still doesnt dictate how good you are in pvp after a certain amount because the soft caps work really well. Attributes on the other hand would be good since it would take into consideration gear which is a huge metric for pvp combat. But that would mean that you would be forced to take the fight with the set you queued with though right? But then how would someone adjust with a different deck or to put warding against a certain player? We have decks and skills that affect deck changing and gear swapping for a reason, these shouldnt be neglected in pvp even though many prefer to ignore them and chose the single build approach.

    All this is why a ranking system would be best. In World of Warcraft, a top veteran pvper with 2200 ranking would never face off against a player with 2000 or below... sure at first players will get wrecked when the ranking starts, but that is the way rankings work. Let the cards fall where they may... Ranking is the only way to go.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  15. Prada

    Prada Avatar

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    Very good points...

    What if the "use it lose it" program could be initiated, where you do actually have "PVP" items that are right clicked and locked into PVP use similar to lock into inventory feature, auto equipped when flagged, and you can lose it because you use it, or some portion of it? This could include consumables, and if not locked in when flagged, you cannot use it...
     
  16. Crowquills

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    Whats the point of creating a classless system if we cant use it? Whats the point of using a deck system with bound gear if we cant use it? Whats the point of have passive skills like deck swap if we cant use them?

    You are trying to make pvp fit your idea of what it should be to equalize time spent playing. Sorry no. Pvp shouldnt be equalized. This isnt something that needs to change. If someone wants to be 5 different classes at once and can carry the gear and pvp better than the rest, all the power to him/her, they are actually playing the game properly to its fullest extent imho. Nothing should change there.

    The top pvper in this season of shroudbert pvp is lvl ~113 death mage. That should prove to everyone that the soft caps work perfectly. He usually kills even when outnumbered, not enough life mages out there too. Sure the rating is skewed because of the things I listed in my first post here about certain ways to avoid getting the kill recorded properly (chaotic feedback, pet kills, etc) but that can be fixed.

    PvP is not an equal opportunity employer nor should it be. Adapt, evolve, or die.
    Too low? Level up. Too undergeared? Work harder, grind harder, or go talk to the oracle and beg for it's condom. It works 100% of the time against pvp.
     
  17. devilcult

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    Match making for balanced teams once you got a ELO scores on each of them. I could make the elo score storing too.
    Code:
    <?php
    //The array holding all the players and their current ELO scores
    $allplayers = array(["Name"=>"RandomGuy1", "Score"=>"1100"],
                        ["Name"=>"RandomGuy2", "Score"=>"834"],
                        ["Name"=>"RandomGuy3", "Score"=>"1152"],
                        ["Name"=>"RandomGuy4", "Score"=>"1024"],
                        ["Name"=>"RandomGuy5", "Score"=>"921"],
                        ["Name"=>"RandomGuy6", "Score"=>"1400"],
                        ["Name"=>"RandomGuy7", "Score"=>"1300"]);
    
    //Variable used for the final ELO scores difference between teams
    $ELOTeamsDiff = 0;
    //This will be the array used for the final result
    $copyOfCurrentBestEloTeamsArray = array();
    //The more players, the more iterations to obtain best result.
    //This is why i keep the count of players for the numbers of iterations. So it scale dynamically.
    $numbersOfIterations = count($allplayers);
    
    //Temporary variables declarations
    $totalELOTeam1 = 0;
    $totalELOTeam2 = 0;
    
    //We start our iterations and set temporary variables to 0
    for ($i = 0; $i < $numbersOfIterations; $i++) {
        $totalELOTeam1 = 0;
        $totalELOTeam2 = 0;
        $tempELOTeamsDiff = 0;
     
        //Randomize the array on every iterations to get a random teams
        shuffle($allplayers);
     
        //Calculate their total ELO scores, we take half the array as team 1 and second half as team 2.
        //If the numbers of players is even, the first team will have 1 more player.
        //Note: (On the client, you can put team 1 as team 2 randomly so its not always team 1 having the surplus player.)
        for ($x = 0; $x < count($allplayers); $x++)
        {
            if ($x < count($allplayers) / 2) {
                $totalELOTeam1 = $totalELOTeam1 + $allplayers[$x]['Score'];
            }
            if ($x >= count($allplayers) / 2) {
                $totalELOTeam2 = $totalELOTeam2 + $allplayers[$x]['Score'];
            }
        }
        //Get the difference between the 2 teams and keep the one with the lowest score (which mean the best result)
        //And save shuffled array into the final array. This might change on furtur iterations.
        $tempELOTeamsDiff = abs($totalELOTeam1 - $totalELOTeam2);
        if ($ELOTeamsDiff == 0 || $ELOTeamsDiff > $tempELOTeamsDiff) {
            $ELOTeamsDiff = $tempELOTeamsDiff;
            $copyOfCurrentBestEloTeamsArray = $allplayers;
        }
    }
    
    //Temporary variables for printing the result
    $team1string = "";
    $team2string = "";
    //Going trought our players team and placing em in the temporary string variables
    for ($x = 0; $x < count($copyOfCurrentBestEloTeamsArray); $x++) {
        if ($x < count($copyOfCurrentBestEloTeamsArray) / 2)
            $team1string = $team1string . $copyOfCurrentBestEloTeamsArray[$x]['Name'] . ", ";
        if ($x >= count($copyOfCurrentBestEloTeamsArray) / 2)
            $team2string = $team2string . $copyOfCurrentBestEloTeamsArray[$x]['Name'] . ", ";
    }
    //Printing results
    echo "\nTeam 1: " . $team1string;
    echo "\nTeam 2: " . $team2string;
    echo "\nTotal difference in ELO: " . $ELOTeamsDiff;
    >
    The final teams will never end up to be the same while trying to keep the difference in elo scores as low as possible. I think its perfect
     
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  18. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    Looks like gibberish to me :p
    What is all this in code noob terms?
     
  19. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Hello world!
    Hello world!
    Hello world!
    Hello world!
    Hello world!
    Hello world!
    Hello world!
    Hello world!
     
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  20. devilcult

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    Team 1: RandomGuy5, RandomGuy1, RandomGuy4, RandomGuy2,
    Team 2: RandomGuy6, RandomGuy7, RandomGuy3,
    Total difference in ELO: 27

    Team 1: RandomGuy1, RandomGuy7, RandomGuy5, RandomGuy2,
    Team 2: RandomGuy4, RandomGuy6, RandomGuy3,
    Total difference in ELO: 579

    Team 1: RandomGuy4, RandomGuy5, RandomGuy2, RandomGuy7,
    Team 2: RandomGuy6, RandomGuy1, RandomGuy3,
    Total difference in ELO: 427

    Team 1: RandomGuy2, RandomGuy6, RandomGuy5, RandomGuy3,
    Team 2: RandomGuy7, RandomGuy4, RandomGuy1,
    Total difference in ELO: 883

    Team 1: RandomGuy5, RandomGuy1, RandomGuy3, RandomGuy2,
    Team 2: RandomGuy4, RandomGuy7, RandomGuy6,
    Total difference in ELO: 283

    Team 1: RandomGuy3, RandomGuy5, RandomGuy4, RandomGuy2,
    Team 2: RandomGuy1, RandomGuy6, RandomGuy7,
    Total difference in ELO: 131

    Team 1: RandomGuy5, RandomGuy7, RandomGuy2, RandomGuy1,
    Team 2: RandomGuy3, RandomGuy6, RandomGuy4,
    Total difference in ELO: 579

    Team 1: RandomGuy1, RandomGuy5, RandomGuy2, RandomGuy3,
    Team 2: RandomGuy6, RandomGuy7, RandomGuy4,
    Total difference in ELO: 283

    Team 1: RandomGuy4, RandomGuy2, RandomGuy5, RandomGuy1,
    Team 2: RandomGuy7, RandomGuy3, RandomGuy6,
    Total difference in ELO: 27

    Team 1: RandomGuy5, RandomGuy2, RandomGuy3, RandomGuy4,
    Team 2: RandomGuy1, RandomGuy7, RandomGuy6,
    Total difference in ELO: 131

    It match random people into random balanced teams, it will never be the same player while trying to keep a low difference in both elo score of the teams

    You can see in the array the randomguy 6 and 7 have highest ELO score, sometime they are both in same team, but they are in second team with 3 dude only. Can happens but pretty rare
    This is also considering 7 peoples joined the que, it could be 6, it could be 50, code still work the same
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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