PvP Scaling Danger Zones

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Hemswal The Descended, Mar 26, 2019.

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  1. Hemswal The Descended

    Hemswal The Descended Avatar

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    Hey folks!

    I'm proposing a major overhaul to the existing PvP system to make it more immersive and meaningful. The different danger zones would be color coded.
    I've heard a few versions of this idea now. But, I'd like to share something I've put together that would hopefully make the PvPer, casual PvPers, and non-PvPers all happy.

    Scaling dangerous zones with an emphasis on risk vs reward. Including factions (semi-permanent pvp flagging based on your faction of choice)

    All risk is based on zones and factions.

    Low risk - If you die or are pick pocketed, you lose very little. A town with guards. Where if a criminal activity occurs, the guards can be called (sort of like in UO) Once the guards are called (beef up the Guard NPCs so they're tougher) they rush in to fight off the criminal and either kill them or force them to leave the zone. If the criminal should die, the offended party could loot the dead persons corpse. Note* Some towns would be no risk. A healthy mix would be good for variety. *note *25% less than Normal risk would be what is lost from a pick pocket or kill.

    Normal risk - A town with very few guards and most zones near towns but guards can still be called for aid in towns. However, they might take a little longer to get there as this is a larger city and thus, there is more land to traverse. (larger towns like Central Brit would be perfect for Normal risk towns.) Normal risk zones would use the existing oracle value system as it is. But, calling the guards would have the same effect as the low risk area, it just make take a little longer for them to arrive and there would be less of them.

    High Risk - Towns and zones with 1-2 guards, or possibly none. Hired guards will come into these zones but they charge a little extra. If you die or are pick pocketed in these zones from another player, they get 25% more than they would in a Normal risk zone but 25% less than they would in a Extreme risk zone.

    Extreme risk - Half loot, (Because, let's face it, full loot will never make sense in Sota) no guards in these zones and no hired guards are willing to come to these zones. It's far too dangerous because of the mobs and other hostile players. But, high risk means high reward. The loot would be better in these types of zones and the mobs would be harder. Also, teleporting in and out of these zones would be magically blocked.

    Keep in mind, All players would have the option of hiring a guard to to follow them on a daily/weekly basis for a fee. They would only help against other aggressive players but not mobs. If a guard is killed by another player, they are gone and so is the fee they charged you. To get another guard, you'd have to go hire a new one.

    All of the zones would be ranked on risk based on proximity to an NPC city and skull rating of the zone in question.

    This is easily expanded upon and tweaked to work well with exising systems.

    Thanks for reading!
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  2. Hemswal The Descended

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    @Chris @Lord British

    Check this post out please. LB, I know I spoke with you about something along these lines in the past. But, Perma-flagging could also play into these situations.
     
  3. beandipcabra

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    This would be a great addition to the already fantastic gameplay.
     
  4. Sarek

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    The flagging system currently lets those that want to PVP and those which don't to not have to. As a currently non PVP player why should I be forced in paying for guards or restricting what I can do in game so that PVP can take place. Of course the higher risk vs reward but if I avoid those areas then the PVP community get all the goodies right? Seen this in other games where you have organised groups taking control of key areas and resources (Darkfall and key nodes / spawns anyone?), it's not about role play, inter player challenge, it's about greed. Are you suggesting that the game turns to PVP to win?

    I think your trying to fix a problem which does not exist in the mechanics of the game, the problem might be you don't have enough PVP players to meet your demands. If you want the scene drama flag PVP, go open and farm your scenes and the PVP player base can organise and chop lumps of each other all day long. Not wishing the fan the flames as I have PVP'd heavily in games before but lets be honest PVP "can" attract certain player types, I have seen plenty of disrespect and disregard for others in my time (even recently in SOTA) if the problem your trying to fix is not enough sheep for the wolves to abuse then I will state now - force me to or restrict content or access further and I won't be anyone's mutton chops, I will be gone.

    And to add I think you under estimate the dark nature of people, now the game is free to play and the time to get a semi viable character up to speed reduced. What stops those who seem to and want to hurt the name of the game, come organised and effectively kill the game for a large part of the player base - whilst you might get your PVP Ragnarok it would be effectively the end once they complete their mission and move on leaving the handful which don't have enough people to PVP with currently to an empty server and a game which now has a reputation for hardcore PVP and roaming gank squads. Whilst your idea might be noble in intent, not everyone is noble. Don't say I didn't warn you..
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  5. Hemswal The Descended

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    Even most non-pvpers are begging for immersion. This is about as immersive as it gets and it's not very damaging in the worst case scenario (in a low risk zone). It would pave the way to bounty boards and other content rich situations. It would also encourage hunting parties. What is a single PvPer going to do to a couple of PvPers? Nothing, kill them like any other mobs or send them off running.

    It would encourage you to hire a guard, or run around in a group. Guards don't have to be expensive, but we do need more gold sinks in the game to keep the economy healthy. Or, just develop skills to defend yourself, or both!
    You know, be challenged and rise to the occasion. Like any good game.

    Also, the current flagging system holds no bearing over PvP POTs that have looting turned off for PvP. We need changes that are balanced instead of one sided. This change is a boon for RPers that want PvP with no loot but it's a jab to PvPers that do or do not want RP. There is nearly no incentive to PvP. Aside from the seaonsal PvP ranking system that rewards PvPers at the end of a season. A scaling system is a way to meet in the middle. It doesn't make either side of the coin completely happy but it's not about pleasing one group or another, it's about making a balanced game that everyone can enjoy.

    Also, you could avoid the dangerous zones if you have no interest in any conflict. But, as a spiritual successor to Ultima Online, this is a VITAL part of the game that is almost entirely missing. This isn't a spiritual successor to Trammel, or Felucca, but to Ultima Online as a whole. UO had both safe zones and dangerous zones. It would be prudent to have both here as well. Even Trammel had guards. Guard whacking worked just fine to protect people.

    BUY BANK GUARDS!

    I keep hearing the argument; Why should I have to flag for PvP if I don't want to PvP? Honestly, this question is dead. The player base is low and needs a boost. This particular system with some tweaks to make it fair to everyone would bring in all sorts of people. We need more people in the game, desperately. This would bolster our numbers.

    Cmon, so what if you get pick pocketed in a low risk zone and lose 1 recall scroll. Pay the price of the oracle 50 gold and move on. You get 500 gold just for talking to the oracle. I just made 30k gold farming UT for a few hours. It's not hard to get gold at all.

    It would also cause people to play smarter. It's a win win win situation for everyone as long as it's implemented correctly.

    The criminal element in UO was one of the most fun things about the game for the Trammies and the Criminals. The criminals created a challenge for the Trammies and the Trammies would respond and go hunting in force. It was a beautiful thing! I played both sides and enjoyed both sides.

    This system is intended to be a fair compromise that enriches the game for all participants, not something to turn the game into an all out war.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
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  6. Sarek

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    Ok lets simulate that, for the next month send me X% of all you farm outside of the hidden vale. Also when your enjoying yourself outside the aforementioned hidden vale and are relaxed please randomly pull out the power cable on your machine to simulate the disruption to your gaming session. Then go stand in front of a mirror and repeat the mantra "Getz good you nOob, thanks for the Ghetto LootZ!" for twenty minutes. Oh please only play two hours a day to simulate the causal potential new long term player exploring the game. Don't forget to shout guards randomly to no effect, you can enjoy that and I can inflate my account worth before I sell at the dawn of PVP Ragnarok, deal?

    PS: I am a long term solo player, I can end game pretty much anything on my own. I spend money on the game, do you want me to leave as my idea of fun does not match yours? Sorry for sounding off but I don't think you understood what I was originally trying to say.
     
  7. Hemswal The Descended

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    I understood. I just don't agree.

    I've been here since before Day 1. I can also solo most of the content in the game. What is there to do after that?

    It worked in UO and UO had (still has) a lot more players than Sota. So, I'm not sure why you don't think it will work here.

    Regardless of if we agree or not. I appreciate your feed back.
     
  8. CatweazleX

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    I think this goes a little to far for SotA. We can think about to have more PvP marked adventuring zones and how to improve PvP marked towns. Also may nested pvp (unprotected) zones and towns.
    The major problem of PvP marked towns is, that there is no protected market. That is a point where functional guards can come in. Not to protect the whole town but a area large enough for a market. There should also be two type of guards, the one that fight and may loose and one with insta-kill (like the guards in UO). Or, to set up town like UO was, protected and unprotected areas. This can also be done to semi-PvP zones -> PvP adventuring zone that as a protected area.
    Also flagging should be changed, lets say one stays flagged for 3 days after the last kill. For a bounty system trophy data for the skull needs to come first, else people use the already in stock skulls... And this still not solve the problem with the alts. (First collect the ransom, then ask your alt to collect the bounty)
    A thief should stay flagged to his victim only (the grey ones in UO). But for this, the guild war system should be fixed, first.

    The no loot option should be changed. At least body parts (trophies) should be available. That means an empty gravestone is produced and when picked up the trophy is send to the inventory. May, the gravestone contains gold, the same amount as the adventure level of the victim is. If one kill a adv. level 100 the gravestone contains 100 gold and when kills a adv. level 10 it contains 10 gold. May a multiplier, *4 ?
    The no loot option only make sense during events, but not full time. May the no loot option is restricted to 8 hours (in total) per release and the town owner can switch it on and off without needing a patch.

    Regarding the sheeps, i think the PvE'ers are the ones that want sheeps. Or what they think mobs are?
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  9. the Lacedaemonian

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    PVP has a stigma with about 50% of any given player base. What Applerust is proposing is a system for hesitant players to find some enjoyment from a light-PvP scenario. A low risk, regain-loss scenario.

    I like how this design idea scales upward.
     
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  10. the Lacedaemonian

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    You did very good points make. I suspect you are not understanding Applerust as I do.

    OP wants players to gain something from PVP participation in tiered stages. The idea I personally see in this, is to motivate edge case players into attempting extra risk, and be rewarded in parallel.

    With extra levels of risk-reward.

    You can always opt out.
     
  11. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    Ah. Kinda eveish. I like it but prepare for some serious opposition. Cuz, PvP.
     
  12. Hemswal The Descended

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    Trammies speak up a lot more than PvPers, I've noticed. That's fine with me. I'm part Trammie, part PvPer. I like both! I see no reason not to bring the two together and create something very immersive for the entire player base.

    Honestly, implementing something along these lines would require minimal effort and would have a very positive impact.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  13. the Lacedaemonian

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    To be fair, Trammies is an unfair term to use. I'm not so sure so many people following this thread remember UO with respect to that term.

    Regardless! The OP idea is a great one to assuage shifting our game to an all-encompassing and inviting Challenge to bring more players together, in the same zone.

    Maybe there could be a new zone made that has a "team up" with any joiners to defeat waves of bosses and get seriously cool loots. .

    Still thinking about this.
     
  14. Spinok

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    I like your idea, I almost sure, that any idea will be better then its now. Ideal societies never work, utopia never work, and in SOTA we have a mix of it, which for sure never will work. Also for sure we need some forced pvp mechanics which will limit private mode grinders.
    But as you can see here there are grinders who want to grind in private mode and then sell their goods in multiplayer to other players.
    They are ok with breaking the economy, they are ok with 500ppl online, but they will cry if you will try to get them out from this swamp, they like it, they selfish, and think only about their own not about the health of the game.
    P.S. And another their marker, YOU WANT ME TO LEAVE THE GAME ??? :D:D:D
     
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  15. Hemswal The Descended

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    @Spinok

    It would be nice to see a lot of zones have a little risk and reward that include the risk of PvP. It's not something everyone will agree with but it sure would bolster our ranks in the game. A LOT more people would play the game with a system like this in place.

    In my guild alone, over 20 people left because of a lack of meaningful PvP. Most of which said they would come back if some meaningful PvP happened. I'm waiting for the day I can tell them it's happening!
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  16. Spinok

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    Thx changed to grinders.
    I very often get such questions from my guildies:
    1) We can kill all NPC in-game, what next, where is PVP?
    2) Where is pvp "siege type" encounters?
    I do all As I can for people to stay ingame in my guild... But many left, the main reason is lack of endgame content(very little content for parties to be effective), lack of pvp, lack of conflict.

    P.S. About ganking and etc. Now 3 top guilds in PVP are AA, HotM, SP, we actively fight group vs group, does anybody really think that for example group of 120+lvl players will be teleporting between the zones to gang single avatars ??? Its not interesting, it not give a reward to us (if it is a group of 4 divide possible reward by 4), why we should do it?
    P.S.S. Also we need to not forget gold sink in PVP, yesterday we have group of players who fight in fall each other, 9 players all VERY high level, each of us can earn 40k-50k gold per hour while grinding, so when we fight for an hour economy sinked 350k-450k per hour, + reagents +durability hit. PVP can be the MAJOR gold sink, which will be great for the economy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  17. Cyin

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    I think that one of the issues between the PvP and non-PvP groups is the PvP group tend to resort to name calling when non-PvPers disagree with their ideas that would force them into a playstyle they do not enjoy. If this part of the PvP community stopped the name calling and actually debated their side with civil words they would not be as negatively looked upon. The name calling only signals that your argument is weak and your only option left is to name call. I prefer to let PvPers fight each other and allow non-PvPers play the game they enjoy. A different play mode similar to how they have private and multi but instead would be PvP would be a better idea. This way PvPers can get the game they want without forcing others into their playstyle.
     
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  18. Spinok

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    How we should call guys who have problems with 7grade school biology lessons? Trying to build an ecosystem without predators/competition for resources - zero chance to succeed.
     
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  19. Cyin

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    I suppose you could call them by their name or if you need to address a group of like minded players who dislike PvP as non-PvPers. The same goes for the other side as well, if someone enjoys PvP just refer to them as PvPers and none of the other derogatory terms. As far as the 7 th grade biology, I don't remember them ever discussing virtual worlds designed for entertainment purposes, but I am rather old and 7th grade for me was way before virtual worlds so what they teach now may be completely different.
     
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  20. Feeyo

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    I love it!
     
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