Quests - What's wrong with people?

I don't have the heart to follow steam forums. The generation of gamer that want it all for nothing and right now would wear me out.

 

Which will work for some but the people being pointed out in this thread are not looking for more. They are more the type that want to blaze passed all that stuff and get to the "end game" (ugh that term is hard to swallow)

 

Thats why I would use my personal time to log on unity and make it better... if my job depended on the long term success and funding of the job itself, I would put all my heart into it and people would be amazed at the opening scenes.

I thought that was why we hired so much young devs... so they would do more than what their job required. So they would have a chance to prove all the haters wrong.

 

You're right in a way, but since we're imposing the gypsy and the opening quests on them, we should make sure people will have a little taste of every feature.

Oh we can cut trees and make chairs in this game, then we can destroy a chair. Oh we can mix dough and eggs I found on the opening scene and feed it to the bard so he decides to help us tame a wild rabbit to give me a taste of taming.

People want it quick and easy, but thats only because they know nothing can be gained in the opening scenes, we've suggested many ways around this by giving unique deco items that can only be "unlocked" in the opening scenes and more.

I'm not saying super sword of flaming doom... but stuff that is rare and actually makes you want to unlock every damned secret before leaving the scene.

 

I spend days in the castle when I first started playing U6, Trinsic in U7, Monitor Part II, U8, U9, all of them, many many hours in the first scenes we had access too. More is always better and it's always what the Ultima series offered.

 

He just needs elocution lessons.

 

A great example would be the town of Paws in Ultima 7. From the main quest standpoint, you can COMPLETELY ignore this entire town (except for needing to buy the hourglass from the shop) and all the NPC characters involved. They have zero bearing on whether or not you can win the game, and offer almost no actual incentive to your character (there's no cool weapons, armor, special gizmos, etc)

But it's also one of the most memorable and first experiences you have in the game, if you take the time to explore it. First, you find out that a local merchant has lost Silver Serpent venom (a very dangerous substance), and that the new Fellowship group is harassing and causing problems for a local farmer and her son. You learn about a man who's been falsely imprisoned in Lord British's castle, and would you please go find out in Castle British what his fate is for his wife and unborn child? The local miller and the tavernkeeper are secretly in love with each other, but neither one recognizes or are willing to do anything about it until you take the time to talk to them and make things work between them.

It's little stuff like that. Sure, you can zip through Point A to Point B as quickly as possible for the bare bones of the game, but the actual MEAT of the enjoyment will come from the exploration and knowledge gained learning about the world. It's funny, the plot to Dragon Age: Inquisition was great and all, but I was so busy off hunting dragons and poking into every nook and cranny, I was often annoyed when the game MADE me go back and actually, ya know, save the world

 

Exactly, even in UO when I logged in I spent days upon days begging NPCs to afford a small armor so I could present myself to LB's castle and look ready to join the kings guard and so many people tried to discourage me, I had seen LB once at launch so WHY in heaven would he not ever log again in his own castle I thought.

Then after a few months I realised he would not come, well I became a career beggar and started to steal around, especially server birth rares some of which were very challenging to get because of guards and NPCs... thats a very simple thing that kept me entertained for months, before I even began to think about creating a "normal" character.

We can add many more nested secrets, like unique dyes and other things that can only be accessed when you first join the game. I think to be really fair these things should not be available everytime you create a new character but only when you first activate an account, a kind of reward for taking the time to really read what is going on.

Subtle hints... not like "hey I think there is a special dye to be made if you mix the dirt in that barrel with water". But little hints that tell you that there might be something special like when you ask the bard how he got that nice looking dye he might tell "I am not sure where he is but a wandering tailor did that for me with things he found around here"

 

@HoustonDragon,

The great things in Paws weren't only the narrative elements.

For instance, the fact that you sorted through layers of things in bags to find a venom or find a key -- a mechanic that you learn from your experience in Paws and apply to other parts of the game.

Also, you had a lot of nice background stuff; the actual fact that the mill worked, the blood at the slaughterhouse, the tavern where everyone met at a certain hour, the beggars, the curio shop, kids playing with dogs in the field. You also learn a little bit of how to play the game from all of those small game elements.

So, its one thing to talk about going through the storyline quickly and skipping Paws, but the beginning part of the game, both Trinsic and Paws, kind of worked as a teaching experience also that allowed you to understand the rest of the game. You didn't need little Tutorial windows to tell you everything, because you were gradually introduced to everything.

 

Exactly, and the choices you make would depend on the virtue path you choose. But if the story taught you the blacksmith is a scammer and steals from people, you should be able to snoop his pack without virtue penalty to find out for example that he is also part of a secret cannibal cult and then you can use tracking to follow the trail of blood to his hidden lair where you find out yet again about things you can do further down the path...

 

Oh, a key was beneath the bucket of blood in the slaughterhouse, another beneath a plant in his house (?) the venom was inside a chest that a key someone else gave you.

 

Thats the spirit !

If some of these perks are nested very deeply, its even a kind of public pride to be the first person to unlock that secret. That also a kind of incentive we should not forget.

 

That's something I was hoping SotA would offer, too.
Moving a cushion on a bed in the house of a widow and finding a key underneath it. The key opens the cupboard in which we find the hat of the baker, indicating that the widow and the baker are in love...

 

Other than the insult on snails, this thread is exciting. I sure hope that the devs take some of this to heart. Hopefully they have a robust conversation mechanic in the box, even though I have not seen evidence of it yet. Simply matching keywords to a list of defined responses just is not going to work IMO.

 

haha I think using the word snail qualifies as an insult Indeed I also hope some dialogue AI can be programmed in the game just like in UO, I've been trying to help but someone at the head of the pyramid told someone working on AI that they should not be listening to me because I'm oh so controversial. Meh.

Yes Lord Darkmoon thats also what I hope to see, but with nested perks... like you can steal the hat while losing some virtue but then when you show the hat to the baker he goes redfaced and gives you some of his special cakes while asking that you keep your mouth shut about it.

Then you can be the "nice" guy and use those cakes to get more information from a guard about some unrelated stuff, or be a "bad" guy and go show the hat to the baker's spouse, still following virtue of truth and make real friends or real enemies in the game by those choices.

Choices that have lasting consequences.

 

I feel your anger Darkmoon.

My hope is that they only dumb down the starting quests - that at least lets those who can't be bothered figuring out the quests into the world and then they can make more satisfying quests for the rest of the storyline / game.

 

@Carlin the Druid Archer ,

I don't know...

Like the examples with Ultima VII showed, starting quests and starting areas are a good way to acquaint you with complex mechanics you use later on in gameplay.

 

It was more for copy protection initially in Trinsic, but I liked how you couldn't actually complete the quest to leave the town, unless you DID go through the steps required. Just knowing the answer ahead of time wouldn't work, as it didn't kick the proper flags.

 

Well, in Trinsic, you also learned things like looking for murder clues on bodies, and I believe you had to find some letter, gold, and Fellowship medallion in a chest in Spark's house, and you also learned the whole NPC schedule thing with people going to the tavern, then to the Fellowship building at night. And there were several books about potions, armor, etc. So it was a good introduction to the gameplay. Then, you go to Paws, and it puts some of these things into play even further.

 

Oh, yes, and the most important thing about the quest in Trinsic: it taught you to actually pay attention to NPC dialogue. Because you had to go around talking to people to find out the clues to report back to the mayor and get the password.