R69 Build 1036 - Heritage items

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hemswal The Descended, Sep 6, 2019.

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  1. Hemswal The Descended

    Hemswal The Descended Avatar

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    "Obsidian Item of Heritage removal"

    I'd like this. This would make me absolutely ok with heritage items.
     
  2. Elnoth

    Elnoth Avatar

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    Yeah sorry I didn't understand the OP until I saw it in the crown shop for myself.

    What a wierd thing to do, create heritige items from brand new unreleased before items.
     
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  3. Bryce Pallaton

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    Yes, that's what they told us when they unveiled the Heritage items. Only it's not a lower price since there's nothing to compare it to: a tradable equivalent item does not exist.

    The method used to determine the price has not changed: It cost X to design and create this deco item, which equates to a certain amount of money, and they have to guess how many they'll sell and then it's simple arithmetic to determine the minimum price at which they will make a profit. These items are not being sold for less.

    It's like when you go to the page on the Rewards Program. The very first sentence tells you that a subscriber gets the best rate on crowns. The thing is, there is no discount. It's the exact same rate as anyone pays, regardless of subscription. It might as well say that a subscriber gets the worst rate on crowns. It is a misleading statement.

    Really Portalarium, I love your game, and I support you monetarily as often as I can. But it seems you're being a bit shady, and I don't like the trend I'm seeing.
     
  4. Sentinel2

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    Same.

    I'm waiting for them to appear in the Vault and tradable ... eventually it will happen :D
     
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  5. Oakenhammer

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    While there are no direct comparisons, you can use other decorations as a relative comparison for some things. As an example, the Bonfire heritage item is 425 COTOs whereas one of the small Fireplaces is 700 COTOs. They have a similar function, both are light sources, and they can be interacted with. There is a pretty large difference in those prices.

    The breakeven point is fairly low. The art for these Heritage items already existed in game, as does any functionality they have. It is a low level of effort to convert that asset into an item that is usable by us--probably a few hours of total work. It is true they would need to do some sort of market assessment to set an appropriate price, but given their overall intention to lower the prices (in an effort do drive more overall sales) I am confident that these items are being offered at a lower price than they would have otherwise. They need to continue to increase the value proposition of purchasing COTOs packages and having a store full of exclusive no-trade premium items at low prices would be a reasonable marketing strategy.

    Now this is entirely incorrect. The Rewards program at $9 gives you 900 COTOs and 3 Obsidian Potions every month plus a 12-pack of Dyes every 6 months, a Title every 3 months, and the monthly reward items. Since the statement is "Exclusive Rewards + Best Crown Price", we'll exclude the Title and the monthly rewards from the calculation since they are exclusive to the program and only look at the remainder of the offering.

    Obsidian Potions have a value of 100 COTOs and the Dye pack is 400 COTOs. So, in total COTO value for the Rewards Program you have 900 COTOs + 3 * (100) + (1/6) * (400) = 1266 COTOs of value. At $9, that is 140.7 COTOs per $1. As a comparison, the largest COTO package is 10,7500 COTOs for $100 or 107.5 COTOs per $1.

    Even if you bought that same large COTO package at the 20% discounted price when it is offered once a year, it would still only be 134.3 COTOs per $1. Additionally, because I live in Texas and Portalarium operates here, I have to pay sales tax of 8.25% on any of the COTO purchases I make, which brings the value of the large COTO package to 99.3 COTOs per $1 normally or 124.1 COTOs per $1 when discounted. I don't have to pay taxes on the subscription, which makes the Rewards Program all that more attractive.

    I think it is safe to say that their statement that the Rewards Program has the best rate on COTOs is both truthful and accurate.
     
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  6. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Talked with Viola about it. We won't be buying any more no trade items.
     
  7. CarlNZ

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    No trades are great. People that don't want them for actual use won't buy them , people who do will buy them from Port instead of a reseller . It's a sensible idea.
    If you're looking to "invest", there are plenty of other options. Almost everything in fact.
     
  8. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    Yupp, I also made the mistake of buying heritage items. Won't do that again.

    I was so excited over the bonfire which I've wished for for years that the fineprint didn't trigger my thinking cap.

    Non consumable account bound items is a big nono for me and one which simply means I will never buy them.
    This since I regularly trade items with others who do a lot of deco for events. Where heritage-no-trade means one cannot pool cool stuff together for RPG specific things without messing a lot with permissions.
    I also give out a lot of stuff to less fortunate players when I've tired of them.


    So made that mistake exactly once - will not do again.
     
  9. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Yeah as cool as these new things are, the no-trade thing makes them extremely clunky to work with from a decorating perspective.

    I do a lot of collaboration on projects, and this no trade flag basically makes these items unusable because it means nobody else on the lot can pick it up and so everyone's gotta wait for me to log back on and deal with it. I agree in principle with the idea of having a heritage item for a lower price because its for you, and only you - it made sense with things like prosperity tools, you can buy these to use, but you can't sell them on - fine.

    Most decoration projects you're going to want more than one of something. Case in point, with the new firebreathing dragons, one per account. So I logged on my alt and got hers. And put them both in 'my' house since I wanted 'one on each side' of something. Now guess what, can't pick them up unless I log on other account. Its just annoying and unnecessary.

    The new obsidian platforms - I bought one to see what I could do with it. Thought it was cool. A friend of mine bought a couple two and we were shuffling them around on one of my properties. Guess what, I can't pick them up now because they are "his" and because they are pretty big I can't simply move them. My house is unusable until this friend logs on and deals with this stuff, and as there is other deco on top of them, it adds a whole new complication of having to unload it all.

    So while I can see the merit in the heritage 'system' I think we need to be more selective on what its used for. Wearables make a certain amount of sense, assuming you can still store them on your property in a box with their no trade tag (and nobody else can take it out of box). Deco just creates hassle. Its not about reselling it for me, as I'd be unlikely to ever do this, its just the use-case limitations that make me less likely to buy a heritage item and instead find an alternative.
     
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  10. Bedawyn

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    If I understand the point of the deco pallette that they're working on (and I might not, but if I do), then that will solve the problem of not being able to share deco items temporarily for joint projects, at least for the lot owner. But it still won't allow people to sell or give away items that they no longer need or that they'd intended to use as gifts or prizes. :-(
     
  11. Xee

    Xee Avatar

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    I bought a lot of these items, but my intent was to use them for sure however one of the items was bigger then I though and could not shrink down small enough so not I have a few of these going to sit around until I find a use. I don't mind the idea of them being marked as such. I think the idea is to force players to spend money on crowns rather then through the other trade channels.

    Myself I would love to see away for us to sell items for crowns and not just igg, this would open up the market for more crown sales further but not sure how much of an impact it would have on store sales.
     
  12. Vladamir Begemot

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    Ironically, all this attempt to make money is making the one unique part of the game less usable and fun by the moment.

    Decoation and housing is a huge market not addressed properly by other MMOs. The trading/merchanting system as well.

    Take away combat from Shroud and you still have a great decoration and events system. Take away the deco system and you have a generic combat game.

    Heriage hamstrings the deco system as well as says "we don't want people trading or selling items anymore".

    All new deco is showing up in the store, crafted stuff seems to have gone away.

    Wood prices intentionally kept high so even though our crafted deco is ugly, it also has to be expensive? Just to drive people to the store?

    Obsidian platforms can be placed on things, but stages can't? Functionality in Heritage items that doesn't exist in others?

    I think on top of boycotting Heritage items I'm going to boycott new deco that doesn't have a crafted counterpart. Not sure yet, we'll see how much more annoying everything gets, but we're teetering on that edge right now.

    But not yet. I think they are just trying to figure out revenue streams. Unfortunately the wild flailing is punching us all in the face, and themselves indirectly by making items less disirable and more of a pain in the.... face. So I'm only boycotting no trade for now, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Edit: Heritage, not heraldry
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  13. kaeshiva

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    I'm not sure re: the palette, with the heritage items, I think you're meant to be able to 'move' something if its on your lot (though I had problems with this)) but not 'take' it.
    On paper, it sounds all quite reasonable, until you get into the practice of trying to pick up a large structural piece that can't simply be moved aside and, can't be picked up to inventory because its not 'yours'.

    Heritage would make sense as I said, on personal equippables or perhaps very small decorative items that could easily be moved around. I'm not against the system in principle. But you'd still run into "someone's put their no pickup thing on top of your rug, and you want to pick up the rug" situation so you just have to boot the deco to their bank. Why even bother having it then? This sort of direction is killing cooperative decoration projects and making it so if I want to deco something for say an event, whoever owns the lot has to buy all the things and do most of the work themselves or be constantly flustered.

    I also find I can't put a heritage item into a container on my property. I must, if it not placed as deco, always carry it in my inventory or try to cram it in my bank that's already brimming due to the new "lets let everyone look in our containers" bug/feature.
     
  14. Bedawyn

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    Ouch. Not being able to put them in containers will be a HUGE drawback. There goes any chance of my buying heritage items. My understanding from the streams is that they do want to make non-tradables able to be put into containers, but that it's a low-priority and not something we should expect anytime soon.

    This thread feels like exactly the sort of useful feedback on Heritage item use cases that they should have had (but didn't) before implementing the new permission system. It's the sort of thread I WOULD want to tag a dev on, if I knew which dev was actually working on these things, but alas, I don't.
     
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  15. Xee

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    that would suck if you could not put in containers.... I would not want it taking up space and would have to probably get a basement to store when not in use lol
     
  16. Datendrache

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    Well, I'm not calling for a boycott. I just don't understand why Portalarium is doing this, not limited to these items. I.e., if this is to make money, exactly how does that work?

    Let's hit the most obvious that I do understand:

    The three story wood and plaster row home. This home was meant to be a "slight upgrade", something that is worth between "free" and 20,000gp or whatever the cost at the homes merchant is for a row home or the 10K or so price of a crafted one. The idea behind it was to avoid competing with other items that were similar and part of the economy. Okay, I give this thinking an "A".

    Here's one I really don't understand:

    Prosperity Tools. Prosperity Tools that weren't a part of Kickstarter and are left exposed by Vault policy need to be limited in the world possibly due to their overabundance(???) or their second-hand market is killing Portalarium's sales(??), they decided that these need to be limited. They are kinda pay-to-win at least over time and supposedly expired, so .. uhm.. reasons, right? But honestly, I'm missing the core reason -- what about Prosperity Tools is so different than other bundle/Vault items that makes them require being flagged Heritage?

    Most of us older players got our prosperity tools in select-your-own bags from players that didn't want to craft and got them from bundles. Often we can find missing tools easier in Bags than in the bundled sets Portalarium is offering now. Seems to me like if Portalarium wanted to improve sales, they should offer them for sale in bags so players that need 2-3 can just get the ones they need. People might feel more satisfied with their picks as they need them, and Portalarium would make more money because its always more expensive to buy one at a time than in a pack anyway...

    I give this a "D-" for "Didn't show your work, come see me after class."

    Here's an example of what I feel we are losing from flagging new/original items as not tradable:

    Login reward was a nice little "Mojito" dog.

    Engineer has cute idea: Get a big greyhound and three little greyhounds to make a doggie family just for fun. Awwwwww. so cute, right? @kaeshiva is a cat lover, so you can imagine a cute kitten as the Login reward. :) In fact, I really want a kitten as a login reward now, tyvm.

    Problem: I get one, and only one, miniature greyhound. Because-- reasons that aren't clear to me. Something about being elite. But let's look deeper, assuming Mojitos were tradable... (Alternative problem possibly is that I can't use them as an NPC but let's assume its possible...)

    So, I find someone who received this as their login reward and they only want @Elrond to make a nice bow for them for PvP. PvP Guy doesn't use Mojitos in the Fall or anywhere else, they just want PvP. So, I'd go look for vendors that have adoptable miniature greyhounds and get my puppies for mama by buying them from vendors that aren't as interested in the sandbox. Then that player buys a new bow from Elrond. And then Engineer goes out and makes a cute little scene to screenshot that gives us all warm fuzzies.

    But instead we're likely to see Mr. PvP get a bank filled with untradable rewards over time. Doesn't benefit the economy, doesn't grow the game at all, Elrond is out a sale, and we don't have a doggie kennel screenshot.

    First and foremost, I want new players to have fun and have opportunities to advance both inside the regular game mechanics and through other boosts that are associated with trade and working with the community. When I see things like this going on, I get confused because the older players should be good right now -- its the new players we need to give opportunities to. Giving them more free stuff as Login rewards is an A+ in my opinion, but not letting them trade feels against the spirit of the game and the goal of raising the population. This could be doing more for them and improve their own satisfaction with the game.

    Sincerely,

    Engineer
     
  17. Bedawyn

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    At least the login rewards aren't something you have to pay for, so I can understand making them non-tradable. But I still think it would be better if they made the login rewards nontradable for a limited time (6 months or so), then they'd turn into normal items. Then people wouldn't be creating new accounts just to get the login item, but this crazy cat lady could still get rid of the dog I don't need by giving it to a new player who'd love it but wasn't around back then. Right now the login rewards are just accumulating database debris for everyone who doesn't have a use for that month's reward.
     
  18. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    For small stuff like that then it is kinda manageable.
    You get three folks to come to your spot, each with a small doggie.
    Then give them permission to lot
    They place their doggy
    you take screenshot
    They remove their doggy
    Then you remove permissions
    ...

    Kinda works.

    ...

    However, now multiply that with 8 people helping out with decorating a whole City lot for an event in different time zones etc.
    This used to be a common occurance.
    Now with heritage items and with the new permission system. Nah, don't work.


    Hence, I made the mistake of buying one heritage item- the bonfire - I will place that and keep it as a reminder never to buy any other heritage item (unless consumable).
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  19. Chrystoph Reis

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    Sucks for me as I have 7 accounts and routinely move deco between them. Don't think I will be purchasing any more as it's a hassle.
     
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  20. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Yes, they would just sit on the items for six months then sell them.
     
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