R69 Build 1036 - Heritage items

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Hemswal The Descended, Sep 6, 2019.

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  1. Hemswal The Descended

    Hemswal The Descended Avatar

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    @DarkStarr

    Crown Shop – Added obsidian round dais ornate, obsidian megalith statue, obsidian dragon sentinel statue, obsidian Round Dais, Obsidian Plinth, bonfire

    Are these actually meant to be Heritage items? Perhaps listed this way accidentally? They're brand new. Why would they be account bound as new items?

    I find this confusing.
     
  2. Oakenhammer

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    When they give items the Heritage tag, they can offer them for lower prices since they can't be traded. Also, it is encouragement to spend in the crown store--it's a pretty solid marketing tactic. If they see a successful response monetarily, then I suspect many new items will go this no trade route now that they have the capability.
     
  3. Hemswal The Descended

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    I'd rather pay more for a tradable item. I guess I'm in the minority.
    -------
    Edit: I assumed something along these lines but it might be nice to have the option of having both? I dunno, I just don't like it.

    On the other hand, I don't mind this for items that already existed and are expired. This just feels like jumping the gun, which is why I asked if it was an accident to list them this way.
     
  4. Hemswal The Descended

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    What if I want to buy one of these items as a gift for someone? Or trade someone for something they have that I want, or, or, or. Yeah, Can we have a slightly more expensive version of each new item that is not heritage? I don't mind paying the extra money for tradable items.
     
  5. Elnoth

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    If you are happy to pay more then just buy off the market

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...tbuy-i-need-except-house-lot-commodities.668/
     
  6. Vladamir Begemot

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  7. Barugon

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    Yeah, I'll pass on these.
     
  8. Hemswal The Descended

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  9. Cypher Black

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    Yeah. They confuse me as well. Plus, you can only place them on your lot. :(
     
  10. Ostvel

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    Bound only items was a big thing that drove me away from other games, you need to have the freedom to trade, which most things have been in this game so far. I really hope they don't take us down this dark road.
     
  11. Cypher Black

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    Yeah. Originally, I think the only 'bound' items were quest items. I know that Mertz potions are bound and I get the reasoning for that, but if we are buying it in the store, it should not be bound. That said, if they are making them 'bound' so they are cheaper, provide us with some pricing options so we can get the unbound if players want to pay a premium.
     
  12. Vladamir Begemot

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    I was wondering that when I saw the dragon statue. Why would they do this?

    I for one don't intend to ever buy items I can't get rid of later. It's not like anything will ever be worth more than its store price, rarity is gone, but at least I can sell it for a loss if I don't like it or only needed it for one event.

    Maybe they are trying to make things "rare" by making it so you can never find them in the world? If so, hard pass.
     
  13. Datendrache

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    @DarkStarr @Chris

    tl;dr version:

    1) Don't understand why this makes any sense as a business model in light of the existing "use virtual assets to fund development" growth cycle.
    2) Lowering prices just lowered how much I spend, didn't change my buying habits.
    3) How does removing trade-able items entice new players to buy more? Seems like it helps older players more and squashes opportunities for new players.
    4) Kinda making me feel bad for being part of the RMT community even though I'm largely a buyer, feels like I'm being just a vulgar participant that people should be upset at but isn't clear why.
    5) Improve services by requiring vouchers for many free services and reduce frivolous requests in the queue; and help improve your anti-fraud efforts instead of trying to eliminate them possibly with a paywall.

    So, traded items cost Portalarium about 75 cents on the dollar?
    And the way to raise more money is to slash prices even if the development costs are the same?

    Uhmm... No offense, I don't see this as a solid move at all. Its like when @Chris says "Crafters can't make a profit or else the game would break". Meanwhile, there has been a lot of development going to PvP that hasn't, at least to me, clearly defined a business case that increases Portalarium's revenue. All this constant re-balancing costs dough. All these should be part of the business plan and pulled together in individual business cases. There I believe new sources of revenue and game enjoyment are to be found.

    I'm one of the people that believe it was a brilliant move to use virtual items to fund development. The understanding that I had was that each update items would be expired (forever) and totally fresh items would come in with new styles for players to purchase. Those would also be expired, and new items would roll in. Older times get worth more in time and can be traded for people willing to part with new items -- allowing the players that supported Portalarium "back in the day" to have the new goods that come later. This doesn't stop new players from buying new items to acquire older items and trade for them in game. This cycle is the fuel that drives players to the Add-On Store.

    That cycle also is fueled also by the house item limits, as seasoned players need more properties to show new items. If they want to continue, they buy more locations, more items, and if they pay taxes, play more in game.

    Anyway, this all feels too disjointed to me with the Vault w/Premium pricing, Heritage w/Deep Discount pricing, and non-trade-able login rewards and whatever. Its not that I really care about trading these items because its doubtful I will anyway, but I'm spending less right now even if I'm still buying nearly everything that comes out. I'm not one to buy things that are completely unnecessary, but its in my interest to keep collecting because that's the game I'm playing.

    Just a benefit, I suppose, but somehow this makes me feel that I'm part of the problem and not the solution since a lot of this seems hostile to markets that funded the game and to campaigns I've supported. *sigh* As I mentioned to @Minerva, my efforts at collecting could be construed as a very negative thing to players-- while I look at my efforts as a shrine of glory to Shroud of the Avatar, other's may consider them a vulgar display of wealth. I'd imagine it would be more vulgar to the new players that are the people that need to be enticed. And here's the rub-- by eliminating the ability to trade, how does this entice new players?

    This feels like a silent war against the cycle that's been fueling the growth of Portalarium. But can anyone blame me for feeling this way? I don't see the backroom picture. All I hear are tidbits of "RMT Bad" and "we want to get away from that" and "We hate fraud and don't like dealing with it" and such.

    And if RMT support is the issue, please understand from my perspective one of the biggest issues Portalarium needs to get a hold of is their services and delivery. Service Vouchers should be required for a whole bunch of things they do for free right now, and investigating RMT fraud, guild member thefts, lost items, and even things like requesting Community Cloaks should be an automatic Voucher requirement. Instead of eliminating, they should be aiming to profit and reducing frivolous claims. But anything paid for should be delivered and timely. Maybe even create a "Priority Voucher" that will move someone to the top of the queue.

    Security is a business enabler, and if you don't get a handle on the RMT situation by trying to eliminate it, you've disabled part of your business. I encourage you to think of a different way to reduce fraud -- possibly with a paywall or other activity that will fund it.

    Sincerely,

    Engineer
     
  14. Oakenhammer

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    The exclusivity of certain items only being available (and cheaper) through the crown store is aimed more at encouraging new spenders, rather than encouraging existing spenders to spend more. Existing spenders will buy what they buy, but the key to overall business success is to entice first time or reluctant spenders to buy COTO packages. The question is whether these exclusive items are attractive enough to facilitate a purchase.

    I suspect that the release of Prosperity Tools as the first Heritage items was a test to see if the market would accept no-trade items. Based on that we're now looking at new items being added as Heritage right away, the Prosperity Tools test probably showed positive results. As they build up the inventory of Heritage items, the value proposition of buying COTO packages only gets stronger.

    Not to derail the thread, but I can understand the company's desire to distance itself with the perception that the secondary-RMT market is a key aspect of the overall experience. The stigma associated with RMT is a big deterrent for a lot of people. The team is looking at the long term viability and success of the company and sometimes that requires changes that impact us existing players and RMT traders (price reductions, no trade items, etc.).

    Full disclosure: I've "invested" a very sizable amount of money into the game and I did so on the idea that if I adopted early and held my exclusive assets for enough time, that I could recoup my expenses or even make a profit (common marketing technique)--not that this was the only reason (i.e. Lord British game, spiritual successor to Ultima/UO, and all of that). The business aspect was a driving force of my spending starting with the Kickstarter and continued all the way through the reward expirations. The value of these items hasn't entirely come to fruition as the game has yet to reach critical mass that would drive the requisite demand. A lot of the players playing are also early adopters and there is a massive surplus of these "exclusive items." Combined with the major price reduction, I've seen the potential value of my inventory drop significantly. While disappointed in this development, I am not deterred from continuing to support the game and company. I've had to adjust my goals and adapt to the changing environment, which is something that Portalarium has to do as well. We are all on this journey together.

    It is pretty clear to me that they are working on transitioning SotA towards a more traditional free-to-play game business model, which more often than not does not allow the trading of premium currency items. The existing economic model that heavily catered to a secondary-RMT market (COTOs as tradable items, limited time items, etc.) was an interesting test case in the grand scheme of the gaming industry, but I think we've seen that it is not giving the results that we all want to see for this game and company. We need to see a change to the business model that will draw in crowds.
     
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  15. Vladamir Begemot

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    Personally I don't think RMT has anything to do with the low player count. I put it mostly on the 5 year old prototype UI that never received a real update.

    They could give everything away for free, but if the UI is still obnoxious we aren't going to see fast player count growth.

    On the other hand how many of the patient ones aren't going to buy deco heritage items?
     
  16. Artomus Sumotra

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    Well crap the Bed !!! I am not cool with this whole line of marketing... Not at all... I actually feel as if I have been taken advantage of. I guess I am a little slow... Or perhaps I am too trusting because I noticed the "Heritage" tag before I paid basically $35 for some in game luxury tools "The 6-more Pack of Prosperity" with the thought that would support the game so it can prosper as well as be sustainable for play years from now. And obviously make my game play a bit less cumbersome. The Heritage tag on the crown store did NOT clearly state "These items are Not Tradable". What it says on the crown store is "These treasures are closely guarded, and never traded." Short of looking at it as if I am a lawyer I assume this was some promotional incentive to get people to buy them. I would NEVER have bought them had I realized they are not tradable. The old Prosperity tools are tradable and I don't remember them costing more then the Heritage ones. I sure didn't feel like I was getting a discount. I went back and forth on it because it was hard to justify buying them. But the 100th time my loom shuttle broke and stopped my crafting Que I decided to buy them... I could rant about the reasons why this "Heritage" B.S. is not the way I want to play this game or any game. I have invested in this game with the intention of making it possible for it to flourish and be something that is around for a long time. When I say invest I mean invest in something that can be traded in full or in part as I see fit. I doubt a single "Seed" or "Kickstart" investor would have invested if their accounts or items were not "Tradeable". I know I wouldnt have made payments for over a year and waited for years for the game to be playable if my account and items were not tradable. I would rather play some console game that I discard when I am done. I am going to write Portlarium and ask for a refund on the 6-pack more. I am starting to understand why I always heard them saying "Don't Lawyer me Bro"... I think what they really want to say is "It will only hurt for a min don't tell anyone". Well I am a teller and I will tell you when this game is no longer one I want to invest in. I told UO after 15 years... If it starts going like this I will opt out so will most ppl, many have. I think many more would but their investment loss is more then they want to take and hope it gets better... I hope they work it out cause I do enjoy the game and the People that make it possible "The players". I hope portalarium notices the crap they are tucking us in with because it is time to change the sheets !!!
     
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  17. Vladamir Begemot

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    @Artomus sorry you didn't realize, I agree the description is poor. But, they were quite a bit less. Due to the nature of them they were actually the only thing I could justify as a heritage item. I'll always need the prosperity tools. I won't always need a dragon statue.
     
  18. Artomus Sumotra

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    Well my main drag is the way "Heritage" items tag on the crown store is not clearly stated "NOT TRADABLE" I was not sure of the discount... yet even at a discount I wouldn't want these tools. I just started crafting and I should have figured out these were not tradable before buying them. Actually if I had questioned what happened to my Artisan tool rewards I would have remembered that one of my son's has them on his account because he has been crafting for his brother and myself. I can and will afford buying replacements as needed. On a side note just because I think it is funny how much I didn't realize they are "No Trade "items I am fairly certain I can unlock them from my inventory now... because I can't lose them if I wanted to... I can't even destroy these tools Bah!
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
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  19. Browncoat Jayson

    Browncoat Jayson Legend of the Hearth

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    Easy fix for Portalariym would be to offer packs of Heritage Sales Deeds that can be used to remove the Heritage tag from those items. They can still sell them cheaper, and charge a premium for those folks who want to resell them later.
     
  20. Bedawyn

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    When I can afford to buy tradable prosperity tools, I will. Never ever going to pay for a Heritage pack of something where the account buying it only wants 2 of the set but I can't give the other 2 to my alt account, whether that's tools or anything else.

    Deco items? Sure, buy Heritage items if you've already seen them in situ in game and are absolutely sure you'll use them for a long time. But they're losing all the sales from people who might have bought them to experiment with but can't be sure whether they'll suit the purpose until they have to chance to try. Not everyone is going to wait to test something on the QA server -- if the impulse purchase has too many strings attached, they won't make it. And forget about RMT -- this also cuts out the people who would have bought it for crowns to resell for gold. Using Heritage items to lure people into buying crowns from Port? That might have worked in the past, but not when you can't buy them for less than $10 a pop.