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R9: What to do about Roots and Stuns

Discussion in 'Release 9 Feedback' started by Poor game design, Aug 30, 2014.

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  1. Poor game design

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    R9 showed that Roots and Stuns are still wickedly overpowered, making them both annoying but also required in PVP.

    Let's change that. I have a solution to roots and stuns that will work fairly for everyone.

    It's simple really. Roots and Stuns should NEVER be cast or invoked by your opponent. Only YOU through your own actions should have a chance to ROOT or STUN yourself.

    Here's what I mean. The way it currently works, you try to TRIP someone, or STUN them, or ROOT them, whatever. You're initiating the "problem". We need to reverse that.

    We need skills that when you FAIL you get stunned or rooted. Then we need clear paths that allow you to avoid using those skills and spells. But, the really powerful skills and spells will have to have failure possibilities that involve being ROOTED, STUNNED, TRIPPED, GRAPPLED, whatever. Now the onus is on you and your choices and not the other players that are spamming it everywhere. This should make it far less annoying and certainly more balanced.

    But because NO ONE likes randomness for the sake of randomness, there has to be some level of "skill" involved in keeping yourself from being rooted or stunned. So my suggestion would be to

    For example, maybe you attempt to use a sword attack where you're out of range of your opponent? That gives you a chance to be stunned! After all, you just whiffed in front of your opponent and now you're out of position.

    Or here's another example...you just attempted to cast Earthquake but you were attacked and interrupted, this gives you a chance to be ROOTED!

    Goodbye roots and stuns as we knew you...we've decided to evolve.
     
  2. Margard

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    I agree that roots and stuns are being spammed - however : some players may actually really on them for survival not as an offensive strategy

    If you are running with light armor - roots and stuns are critical for survival - just as heal spams (at least when fighting one on one) or even when you are fighting PvE (with light armor)

    I'm more concerned with your point on another thread (DPS is king - and I don't think thats a good thing)
     
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  3. Borg

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    I agree that it should be more balanced. If you want to stun someone you should make extra effort so it should cost extra focus.
    Every time you use stun the focus cost should be higher you get more tired because of the extra effort.
    This way people will use stuns more as tactical hit and wont spam stuns like mad because they would run out of focus very quickly.
     
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  4. Margard

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    But there is already a cost associated with having lots of stuns - you forgo other cards in your deck and minimize the recurrence of other abilities - there is also a counter to a stun / and ways to guard against it

    I don't necessarily see it as overpowered
     
  5. Borg

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    Nobody said its overpowered, but it is over used, making the fights very annoying.
     
  6. redfish

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    How does root work ? -- I haven't gotten around to trying it. Is there a way to break from from the root, or does it just have to expire?
     
  7. Margard

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    Fights can be annoying (I think thats ok)

    but I think the solution should rests on use of reagents to cast (making it more punishing on cast happy people)
     
  8. Margard

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    I heard someone say you jump out of it - but I did not try but I got rooted to deaf last time I played ... and it was frustrating

    not to mention lag
     
  9. redfish

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    Can the root be cut by party members, so someone could help the player out?
     
  10. Margard

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    That would be a nice "co-op" team mechanic - never saw anyone try

    I do think that the root - mechanic is too fast (and I don't know if its fair) - I kinda believe the air stun / pushback (but I think they can decrease the stun time by 1.25 secs)

    But the root - seems like you should be slowed or trip (stumble) more than a complete hold (but at least you can attack)
     
  11. Poor game design

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    All of what you say is true if we're making another stupid MMO DPS spam game. But if we're thinking outside the box, then none of this is important, we can evolve the game using new rules based on what we like and find less annoying and more fun.
     
  12. Poor game design

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    Root is auto-hit and auto-target.

    Root immobilizes a player for a number of seconds (maybe 5, it seems like forever when you can't move). There's a percentage change that when you are rooted you can JUMP out of it. But jumping costs focus and the percentage chance is low. Plus as soon as you get out you're going to be rooted again (although there are some diminishing returns for additional castings).

    There are also some "active" resistances that you can put skill points into (a lot of points), and that will give you additional "protection" but even when you max out on that you're still generally rooted or stunned 4 or 5 times during a fight. Lastly there's a very high level skill that you can use that will give you a temporary resistance to roots and stuns but even this is mildly effective at best.

    So the short answer to your question is that it's an annoying overpowered set of skills and spells that you really can't be proactively defending against. You have to react to it and concede initiative to your opponent at least for a short period of time.
     
  13. Margard

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    yeah - but we still have regeants / emcumbrance and other aspects that need to be tested - I don't think your noticing something weird - I just think its a little early for modifying it - considering that the restrictions you are looking for are probably in the works

    I think reagents or cost of glyph points can resolve this - unless what you are after is a one time use root, stun etc effect

    is that what you are looking for?
     
  14. Margard

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    You're right that stuns in particularly / are too long - roots seemed shorter time span and yeah - the protection does not seem to help - I tried that today ... it felt marginal at best
     
  15. Poor game design

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    I'm saying it's overpowered. But I'm also saying that moving numbers around on a spreadsheet won't fix it. The act of immobilizing your opponent in a combat system where initiative is one of the most important factors to success (all other things being equal) is completely overpowered.
     
  16. Poor game design

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    No, I'm looking for the changes I listed above. If they implemented what I suggested above then roots and stuns are no longer a problem they're a choice and a byproduct to risk.
     
  17. Poor game design

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    Margard, the biggest takeaway I hope people get from all this is not that we need to increase or decrease cool downs or damage or whatever. Who cares about that stuff? That's all silly talk for bad combat design.

    What we need to focus on is way beyond that. We need to start thinking about how a balance fight works, what "makes sense", and then we need to develop mechanics that are fun that get us as close to that as possible without trying to balance everything after the fact.
     
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  18. Margard

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    Seems fair - what do you think would be a fair failure rate?
     
  19. redfish

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    @Drocis,

    In other words, we need to pull away a tiny bit from the "dials and knobs" view.
     
  20. Poor game design

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    Or perhaps ENTIRELY.
     
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