REALLY NO MONEY IN BANKS!

Hmm.. are they going to get nutrition and everything associated with it done for the final wipe?

Yea, anyway money is fungible. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to withdraw coins at any bank.

 

~PvP Profit vs Economy~
I believe the core of this issue is whether or not we have a profit within PvP. If PvP has such profit, then it can no longer stimulate any local economy.

~The UO PK System vs Reality~
Most people have nothing on them to loot within any battlefield situation, other than a C-Ration, ammo or a weapon to be reused. This has been historically true within reality which is why wars are a non-profit to those fighting them, "unless it's for territorial wealth". I believe that territorial wealth serves our game more than some left over UO PK looting situation, because it has a unity goal of uniting a local people within our game. Not just the PvP fighters, but also those craftsmen (in reality a war profiting company) from whatever territory that army or fighter calls his home marketplace. I don't mind the old system, but using the old system does not have such a stimulus that would effect anyone else, but that individual PvP soldier.

~TimeLord Predictions~
I still don't see why implementing it now would be any different than later. Yet gold is strait profit to the PvP and that doesn't hold true in reality. Our economy is to be a more player based economy, so I don't see gold as a thing supporting that concept. But I also don't think it's all that important not to have it as a thing, because I don't think that there's going to be that much of it in the field from the things we loot.
"I'm predicting a more early UO Siege Perilous style of economy where gold is something you mostly find in the city and less likely on the battlefield"
Coin or not, it's not that big of a deal to be now or later
~Time Lord~

 

The current bank system is awful so anything that makes it even more awful I am opposed to.

 

Because it will force all players to change how they play after the fact. It's like giving them something (convenience) and then taking it away. Much harder for players to accept after the game is launched and we have x100+ more players running around.

 

75%

 

I'm not sure 75% of 48 people is a big enough incentive to revamp systems and delay the game any further than it already is.

 

Itr would be a

Maybe not but i think it is a good indicator of what people would like. "we will call it a test sample"

 

That assumes the change being suggested was never planned to begin with. As the Dev's have never officially said one way or the other. As I've stated before.. the best time to implement such a feature would be after the final wipe when serious work begins on the economy. If Portalarium hadn't decided to stop using the term, we'd still be pre-alpha right now. Game's not even 'feature complete' yet. The current set up is easier on everyone for common purposes but again, this is a feature that's part of an economy which does not yet exist. Apart from each individual's personal expectations there's no reason to think tangible currency wasn't always planned.

The simple fact of the matter is.. on this issue we just don't know what Portalarium has been thinking all this time. We only know Richard's history and past comments regarding features (ie player minted coin) that would require tangible assets. Though those comments aren't set either. So until they actually tell us something definitive or officially 'finish' EP1 all we're doing is speculating.

 

I played all the old Ultimas (except UO) but I didn't remember this. Oh well, it has been a long time, and I guess it didn't make much of an impression on me.

 

That's probably because while it had weight.. it was still very light. Of course, you also had a party to spread it around. 100 coin might weight 1 lb. You still had to manage it though if you carried a lot with you. If it didn't make much of an impression it just shows that it won't ruin the game.

None of us want currency to weigh so much that it becomes an unusual burden and if you can deposit and withdraw currency from banks globally.. you'll always have it nearby when you need large amounts.

 

??? OK, if you say so... they must be very small coins... but wait...
This is 2.2 lbs of gold and we can jump like we're on the moon aye? So I guess it would be a sizable coin in our game to be one lbs. of them

~Time Lord~

 

Just how much realism are you expecting from a game?

 

Personally, I think its make sense that it the weight is more than 100 coins for 1 lb. That would mean 1000 gold is just 10 lb. It would probably make sense around 100 coins as 10 lb. Maybe less than that, maybe 5 lb... but lets think higher than featherweight; higher than 1 lb...

Why?

Well, for one, because, since we have a bank, we're not typically going to be carrying around thousands of gold coins, anyway. The average looting run, you'll collect less than a thousand, and then get most of your gold through selling the loot you collect. The single-player Ultimas didn't have banks, so gold needed to be light then.

Second, with weighted currency, we can have multiple metal types, so we can convert upward to decrease the weight, or we can get a few more valuable coins when looting instead of a lot of less valuable coins.

Third, because if gold is going to have a weight, you have to think about gameplay scenarios like stealing gold from a mountain of gold in a dragon's den and how much a player should be able to carry or teleport back to his home using teleport scrolls.

Our encumbrance system is pretty forgiving. You can overload yourself with a lot of weight and still be able to move around pretty well. There's a lower limit to being able to teleport, of course.

 

I don't know how much it actually weighed I just made that number up as an example.

 

Ok maybe my memory was better than I thought.. in Ultima VII: Black Gate 100 gold coins weighs about 1 unit of weight. However, that 1 unit is almost certainly not equal to 1 pound.

In fact, I don't think Ultima has ever used pounds as a weight measurement for characters. I do recall however using stones.. in which case it would be 8 or even 16 pounds.. I'm going to assume 8 here.. I'm also going to assume that SotA units are also not pounds.. unless devs say otherwise.

 

@Bowen Bloodgood,

Yea, Ultima used stone weight, but I don't think it was equal to the standard for stone weight in the real world.

 

Real world stone weight varies depending on context and region. There was no universal constant like in Ultima. However, as it is the basis of the Ultima measurement the lesser 8 pound equivalent makes the most sense.

Just for reference.. in Ultima stats.. carry capacity was x2 Str. So if you maxed Str at 30.. either through training or magic items (ie from SI).. you could carry a max of about 480 lbs.. assuming 8 lbs per stone.

If there is an official reference or a really good argument somewhere to suggest a different stone weight standard I'm all ears.

 

@Bowen Bloodgood,

Well, the Ultima wiki has a list of weight per items. A dagger was 0.5 stones in U7 and 0.4 stones in U6. If a stone were 8 lbs, that would make it too heavy.

 

I don't think we can take it all too seriously. Since when have games ever accurately measured weight or item stats in general?

Take epic plate for example.. My entire suit of armor weighs "23".. that's obviously not stone.. Full plate in the real world can weight 80+ pounds.. My sword weighs "2" if we do that math.. my sword should weigh just over a half pound. Not bad but it's a little light by at least a pound or so.

Game weights are based on game balance.. not realism. So I'm not going to nitpick every little weight measurement that doesn't add up. Especially when the game doesn't even define a real world equivalent. If you have 50 str and can carry "250" units.. how much is that exactly? Like how would we know?

 

I think currency should have weight, at some value that balances between fun, convenience and game design (interactivity, economy, etc). And the devs have been pretty good and fixing any weight issues when we call them out (e.g. like recently, maps being too heavy). Ultimately if this gets in, we'll be playtesting it and finding that right balance.

I do like the examples @redfish posted and I think the opportunities to enhance gameplay with rewarding experiences where our choices matter, will outweigh the inconvenience of currency having weight. Plus, we can and should get creative with in-game counters for this, such as bags of holding of varying weights, mounts, etc.