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Resistance Changes [Feedback Welcome]

Discussion in 'Release 51 Feedback Forum' started by devourerofmemes, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. devourerofmemes

    devourerofmemes Avatar

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    "Currently your effective resistance is half your attunement plus your resistance. I have toyed with and written in my blog about the idea of making your resistance the higher of your attunement or resistance BUT before I can consider that, I need to add some way to build some resistance up." -Chris

    Personally I really dislike resistance being tied to attunement, since it encourages leveling all magic trees in order to gain resistance. How do people feel about the idea of changing the tie between resistance and attunement, but giving all avatars a starting base resistance of X. For the sake of simplicity of the discussion lets say it's 100. So your fresh adventure level 1 character has 100 resistance in every magic tree. We remove all resistance passives from the skill trees. Now when you level a magic tree you gain no resistance, but you do lose resistance from the opposing magic school. So as I train my fire tree I lose water resistance, but I do not gain fire resistance. A ratio of something around 100 fire attunement = - 20 water resist. It's not overly punishing, but water will hit you a bit harder if you really push the fire tree.

    There a some nice benefits to this system. If you want to play a pure melee non magic character you already have max resistance from the start outside of gems or potions. If you want to be amazing in fire you'll get hit harder by water, etc. If you want to master all the magic trees you're going to get hit harder by every school of magic for your versatility. This passively discourages leveling every tree, while not putting non magic builds at any disadvantage. This would also be fairly quick to implement.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  2. Mac2

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    Can we have a resistance to weapons if we do not train them then?
     
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  3. devourerofmemes

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    Nope <3 I mean seems a bit overkill with armor...
     
  4. Mac2

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    Then it sounds pretty bias towards weapons users getting something for nothing and mages get nothing.
     
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  5. devourerofmemes

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    Well you inherently get weapon resistance when you put on armor so there is already a system for it. Also they aren't going to hit you harder for you leveling any magic tree, since it only lowers magic resist.

    EDIT: You'd need to balance the magic dps vs whatever you pick for the base resistance. The point won't be to just make magic users hit for lower numbers, it'd purely be to remove the need to level magic trees purely for resist. So you'd want to refactor magic damage vs the base resist to be fair to magic damage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  6. Mac2

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    You inherently get magic resistance for gemming your gear. You can even ward gem your gear. But the idea your proposing is if you level nothing, you have magic resistance, and as you level it up that is going to get lower until you reach the point where your attunement is going to give you better resistance then the base you started with has gone down to so far. So you actually get weaker for a bit, makes no sense.
     
  7. devourerofmemes

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    I'm proposing removing attunement from resist completely, at no point would attunement give you better resistance. You would no longer roll against attunement at all.
     
  8. Koss

    Koss Avatar

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    Mac is God... All hail the Mac!
     
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  9. Mac2

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    Well thats even worse, now if I level magic I just get blasted by magic but if I dont level it, I have resistances. I am not against separating resistance and attunement, I just think having a passive in each school that give resistance that you need to level up is a better idea.
     
  10. devourerofmemes

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    You would only get blasted by the opposing school. If you leveled every magic tree too full on actives then yes you'd get blasted by pretty much everything. Also, the idea of adding a passive skill resist for every magic tree is also decent, if you again remove attunement and the highest resist you can get is purely from the resistance passives. The downside to resistance passives in every tree is again everyone that wants to pvp is going to max them until they are too much of a decay hit. I agree it's still a better option than needing to level every single active in the tree though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  11. Mac2

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    I just dont like the idea that you spend exp and get weaker, and that benefits one class over another class, as well I don't like that you need to level things you might not want to use to get resistance.
     
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  12. devourerofmemes

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    I guess if you picked the right numbers, I don't think you'd really get that blasted if you aren't pushing every active skill to 100+. Just don't make the amount of "- resist" given out for attunement to opposing trees psychotically punishing. Keep the specialization ratio so 100 fire attunement is -20 resistance to water.
     
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  13. Mac2

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    Think of a person that wants to play a healer, now they go an fight an elven mage who uses death, or in pvp fights a death mage. Life only has banish as an offensive spell and cant be used on players ( unless they are using a lich ring, when this gets working) but the death mage is going to do more damage to the healer then a person who spend no exp in the life tree.

    And what if a player does want to level all the magic trees? So I get punished for this and for learning magics, I am now weaker to magic, this makes no sense that a person who knows nothing about magic is going to be better at resisting magic then a person that knows about all magics.
     
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  14. devourerofmemes

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    It's the same way specialization works, if you specialize in life you get hit harder by a death mage. It's already the logic of the opposing magic schools. Shouldn't you be punished for trying to balance using all magic types, in essence you gain a lot of versatility because you have more spell options than someone else or are you just against the opposing school logic they're already using in general?

    EDIT: I'd also like to see a more even spread of damage spells and even AoE options through the schools, moon gaining a single target damage spell, an AoE damage spell in chaos, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  15. Cock of the North

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    You can build resistance with gear of warding (I think) but I think everyone builds attunement because its damage and resist which is obviously better. Maybe they could look at making warding gear more useful.

    Heavy armour tree and light armour tree could have "attunement" but instead its like "toughness" or "resilience" which could increase bonus from the appropriate heavy or light pieces of gear with warding gems in them?

    Im a bit green so hopefully I didnt miss any glaringly obvious flaws with that suggestion.

    Maybe weapon skills could do same for using appropriate weapons of warding.

    You could even make attunement resist the opposite of diminishing returns, so you get less resist the lower your skill is or even make attunement much lower contribution to resist entirely and make the specialization the real big resist return so you obviously are resilient to whatever you use the most.

    Combine the two suggestions and you have a lot of options to build resists using gear and specialisations and less need to grind trees you dont really want to actually use.

    Less decay more gear builds.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  16. Mac2

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    Ok, I'll vent about how I feel about it. When I got into the game, it was open freedom to be what you want to be. You could be a specialist just by consciously focusing your exp into a certain build, but you could also be a generalist and have more versatility AT THE EXPENSE of not being as good as that person who focused all their exp into one build. I could be a fire and water mage if I wanted to, or death and life if I wanted to. Some people did not like this, felt that being a fire mage should be detrimental to being a water mage at the same time. So they added in specialization, but only if you want to be a specialist mage is there a penalty to do so. I do not see a penalty for being a swordsperson, or tactician for specializing in those schools, so why do only the mages have penalties? At the same time, I do not see pot of sword resistance, or bow resistance, so once again, why do only the mages get penalized on this? Then you have mobs that are magic resistant to pretty much every magic, so now if I ever have to face those mobs, I HAVE to learn a weapon or get help. Can you name one mob that is physically resistant enough that its pretty much impossible to kill with a weapon? So once again, only the mages are penalized on this.

    So, ill ask you this, why SHOULD I be punished for trying to balance using all trees? I guess spending 10x the exp someone who does not want to is not enough? The decay being higher when I die is not enough?
     
  17. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    I am playing a Druid with Fire, air, water, and earth magic schools. These changes would leave me very weak and useless in Magic. Sorry, I cannot get behind this idea.
     
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  18. devourerofmemes

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    Just to be open, I prefer playing pure mage with wand/shield, so my suggestions on this really aren't trying to be pro weapons users. I'm personally of the mind that -40 water resist for 200 fire attunement just adds a little fun to match ups. In regards to the wep school issue, they can only equip one weapon at a time, so isn't it technically a bit punished by that fact. I will say the R52 changes I just tested with hotkeys to 10 decks, might kill my point here. I don't think shifting just a weapon deck takes too long if all your armor is the same. Anyway, my main issue is the attunement resist, personally I'd be totally fine with your suggestion of every single magic tree gets a resistance passive, but I'd just hope it's not some crazy xp dump since we'll all be leveling every single one to at least 80 lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  19. devourerofmemes

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    Duke what is your attunement in each school if you don't mind taking the time and aren't against sharing it. I'm only proposing -20 resist in the opposing school for every 100 attunemet, also for the sake of discussion would lowering that number to any point make you start to consider it not that terrible. Like -10 resist water for 100 fire attunement. Since the numbers could obviously be changed, I mean hell we could just remove the - resist and untie attunement from the resistance calc. Personally I just kinda like a little -resist for match up spice, but I get how it could be no fun if it's too heavy handed. Also you could just think the general idea sucks which I totally understand haha <3
     
  20. Mac2

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    If they do make a resistance skill in each tree, and make it cheaper then the tree is self to get the same resistance bonus, then this again would give advantage to the physical person. ya, a physical person can only use one weapon at a time, but in what way is that ever detrimental? You ever see a mob that is weak to spears but strong vs swords, no. They would just be tossing exp away to level a couple or few weapons at once, they can kill EVERYTHING with one weapon. Its not that way with magic, some stuff is resistant to some schools, and a few things are resistant to every magic, hell obsidian golems even make it so you cannot cast magic. You know any mobs that make it so you cannot use a weapon?
     
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