Roleplayer hate origins ?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by StrangerDiamond, Mar 18, 2018.

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  1. Ristra

    Ristra Avatar

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    I think the internet here is to take a look at where RP begins. When do I, or anyone else, pick up my role to play. Is it simply because it’s an RPG game? Or is there a time and place for RP?

    The people I am in discord with when I play any game are in a cross game guild. Many channels many people from all over the world. Ever one of them respectful of cross talk. While at the same time they are very inviting to people coming into the channel.

    RP in voice coms becomes private with this design so it’s pretty much not done or sought after.

    In text, RP to stay in character is much more ad hoc these days. To stay in character full time is to place a barrier between the players. My reaction is I’d rather solo and accomplish my goals for this play session before I get into such things.
     
  2. OzzyOsbourne

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    I will HAIL everyone from now on. Cant beleive people complain about that...

    AFAIK, roleplaying isnt shunned upon,.... just dance parties..... i know a lot of people that based their character progression on a role they placed on their character and embody it in their skill trees.

    p.s.: the best roleplayers are PKs imho :D
     
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  3. Hornpipe

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    You mean, one of the numerous clones we have with a white shroud along with a cabalist hood ?

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Cock of the North

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    I don't know where these roleplayers hate originates from. jk.

    To answer the original question. "Roleplayer hate origins?"

    I would say my hate of roleplayers originates from actual roleplayers themselves. Controversial opinion I am sure.

    Seriously though, I definitely roleplay to an extent. But actual people commonly labelled as "roleplayers" are more like historians of game lore who just want to talk about it.

    I roleplay all the time when I am cracking jokes. But I am not considered a roleplayer. Probably because I do not walk around talking like some sort of bad Shakespearean play actor.

    I don't hail people I do not know in game anymore because I dont want to get too friendly with people I might murder someday (roleplaying).

    It is quite sad really that the developers did not realise making the most obvious best choice items for slots such as the shroud, or the hoods, would result in everyone running around wearing the same stuff.

    I am honestly already sick to death of looking at my glowing white toilet roll draped around my neck but I womt take it off because it has better avoidance on it than most of my armour.

    And if you want to kill infinite Cabalists to get the 1 in a billion chance of a drop you may or may not want after playing Cabalist siege roulette, then you better get used to your shroud being white.
     
  5. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Now I know what I can ask you about in game! ;)
     
  6. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    I want to thank @Ahuaeynjgkxs for starting this thread.

    The other day I was out adventuring and with 99% of my points in my taming tree with 100 Taming Specialization my death penalty is really low. It was a critical “last blow” between my bear, the mini-boss Viking leader, and myself. It was thrilling and someone saw I was in trouble and came in to help.

    I said jokingly “What the F!”

    He responded that he was only trying to help me out.

    I responded, “I am going to tell xxxxxx about your treachery”.

    That went south real fast. I was called an ******* and I basically stopped and ran away as to not engage anymore as my weak RP attempt was really bad and he was offended by what I said. I did not want to say anything else I may regret later.

    I decided to go to single player as this scene was really busy with 10+ people already running around.

    I had a nice chat with his friend (who I confused for him and jokingly said to them “thanks for calling me as *******” which they corrected me that they were the other person. I apologized to them for my false accusing.

    Over all I try but don’t really end up in the real role playing and more of a role playing lite category.

    Fun times overall.
     
  7. StrangerDiamond

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    community enabling effect of active empathy/compassion :

    Classic example guild wants to buy small castle, I have a spare castle, I test the guild RP authenticity as a prerequisite (do they respect all players and where they stand in the story, yes they do) housing player vendor lose a sale (-200k)
    but then said guild buys tons of deco on 20 vendors (more happy people), spends all the gold they planned for castle, but then he's got too much deco, now wants a bigger castle.

    Noone looses. They are looking at a 400k castle instead, on the same vendor.

    We have motivation, we have room to work our guild, we have fun.

    I was given empathy/compassion first, I return it.

    So simply put is that when this is respected by players and devs, the potential of players do not only add up, they also multiply at the same time.

    So I get what @Stundorn means...

    @Vallin Tregres about your question about how much people do you need to RP ?

    Well... you need an entire world, because of the variety of situations we might call RP/want to RP on this particular day... as others have said if I want to be a fisherman, a blacksmith or any other pure crafting roles... I can, but then I have to use a whole bunch of imagination to disregard the fact that to continue on my path without farming gold on monsters, I'll have to sell my wares for the price of the resources, but then I find out my neighbor is selling more powerful items for less, mine will never sell.

    In a roleplay geared world... I would leave a note or knock at my neighbor house and ask him if I can perhaps remove some variety of items we both sell to help him out (my vision of compassion). It would make only a slight difference for me, BIG difference for him, once he catches up and makes stronger stuff, then I would go back to my original listing. In the meantime the person I had compassion for might want to refer clients to my shop, because I was nice to him.

    But in a RMT geared world... its even worse than we think, I will never meet my neighbor, if he chose to list his items at below cost, then I will undercut him, because to me these low level items are worth nothing.

    So the purpose of this thread wasn't necessarily to force others down that path, my example is very very light RP scenario... it could happen with a few words exchanged, but it IS RP, because I am virtuous in game, I should be also playing my role.

    I shouldn't do only what the oracle considers virtuous.

    I give one GP to a beggar and I'm virtuous, I see someone struggling with mobs in an adventure scene and chose to ignore him/let him die because its a loss of time and I'm going in the nested tier 5 adv scene, well I ain't less virtuous.

    So yes, I think portalarium fails a little here... because virtue is a run of the mill pre-programmed function of your game interactions with NPCs and their belonging, which is not MMORPG... its MMO I guess... don't know what else.

    So that is in brief what my purpose was here, to highlight the shortcomings of our current paradigm.

    If nothing encourages to play by the virtues, it all soon becomes a kind of joke.

    "oh your shroud is white today, it was black yesterday?" "yea I killed alot of cabalists for the loot"

    Oh great... you must be virtuous.

    *sigh*
     
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  8. rild

    rild Avatar

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    What a surprising thread! Thanks for starting it, Ahuaeynjgkxs.

    Just as there are many play styles, there are many styles of RP. I think FPO is an excellent tool for maintaining an environment, whereby you only interact with those who have consented to the "rules of engagement". There are some great guilds and organizations promoting RP in the game, but also there are many aspects that some people probably consider RP while others do not. Attempting to RP with someone who does not can sometimes result in a poor experience. However, my own attempts at "casual RP" have been generally well received by all players I encounter, and I take no umbrage at them responding to my "Hail" with "wazzzzup fewl" etc.

    We benefit from having a unified global "server", rather than regional or play-style "shards". One possible downside is that the matchmaking for play styles is not done before entering the game, and players must organize themselves as they see fit within the game.

    Examples: Decorating your home, living in a PoT with a theme, battling other guilds based on allegiances or alliances, choosing to specialize based on your "character identity" rather than simply min-maxing for superiority in battle.

    As we Avatars are all called from worlds other than Novia, it even makes sense in an overall RP context that some of us would be simply modern Earth-gamers who talk in contemporary language. Some might be called from medieval times, or future Earths, or undiscovered planets or dimensions. All of these are valid in the scope & story of SotA. For instance,
    the Titans are extranovian outlanders who have been unable to return to their home world

    Even playing completely "OOC" could be considered RP in the context of SotA.

    More specifically addressing the concerns of the OP, I'm sorry you have felt discriminated against for your style of play. I encourage you to check out RPotA, and I also suspect that some of the folks involved with "Echoes from the Caverns" radio-plays and the "New Britannian Theatre Troupe" would know of other opportunities to RP.

    Here is a list of RP events for the month of March http://www.rpota.com/#events/
     
  9. rild

    rild Avatar

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    RP is and has always been a way for SotA players to overcome perceived shortcomings of the game and its systems. Before there was a story, people were writing and performing "The Avatar Chronicles" making up all kinds of crazy fanfic to fill in the blanks.

    I definitely take the point and agree that the game should encourage RP at least within the context of the story by varying reactions of NPCs & game-run AI based on a character's progress, position and role in the story. The example above about the virtue hit from giving money to a beggar -vs- assisting players who might die, is a good one. I hope the systems deepen to take more actions into consideration. However, some variables (such a player-to-player interaction) may be outside the purview of the game's AI & data-collection abilities, and will always need to be filled in by player-to-player RP actions.

    I would like to suggest (and I hope) that Portalarium intends to deepen the meaning and mechanics regarding the Virtues as the game progresses. Once the obligations of original development campaign have been fulfilled, there will hopefully be more resources and time to focus on details such as this.

    Also, we don't necessarily know what data the game or the Oracle are gathering on us as players. We only know what is reported and also what is shown by a shroud or a virtue cloak. IMHO, use of the 3 principles rather than the 8 virtues is a simplification that hurts the story a bit. I understand the need to distance from EA property, but I hope this is given further attention and improved in the future, from character creation to story interaction.
     
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  10. Black Tortoise

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    If you find me in game, I will always be in RP via /l (local), and when it makes sense in /p (party). I use emotes as best I can. You may only receive a /nodhead from me, but thats just part of my RP style.

    I think its sort of similar as to why so many men refuse to dance - they deeply fear beeing seen for having little to no creativity, so create a defensive wall around it and keep it unseen. We dancing men absolutely love this though, as we then typically have 2-3x as many women to dance with! If only the same were true for RP! :p

    If you think there is something wrong with role playing, consider how silly you look not-roleplaying in a RolePlaying Game.
     
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  11. Vallin Tregres

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    After giving it some thought it would seem SoTA has offered the most powerful of RP tools in the “Avatar” system. One could assume all Avatars are from earth and they were all human... Or? The thing about crossing dimensions is that it becomes quite apparent that there’s more than one. This leaves the “who” and “what” of our Avatars quite open.
     
  12. StrangerDiamond

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    Indeed, I have no issue at all with the basic lore, in fact the distinction is pretty clear there is the stranger from ultima (which all players roleplayed). The beauty of it is that he was a model but at the same time an example of what not to do, the game is basically passing through his low lowes and his high highs. Then there are avatars from other worlds (the outlanders) and then there is the "chosen one" of the dirae prophecy which is set to become the new moral center and guiding force for all novians.

    In UO, the distinction was to be made because we all played on the same world, not everyone could be the same character, in fact most people SHOULD have been traumatized by who the stranger really is... him being the guardian in a split personality type scenario. So indeed in UO, not many people wanted to be that character anymore... that probably surprised the devs more than anyone because there was a whole storyline that was deployed on the major servers which was intended to single one out (yup same vision than for our SOTA). Nobody really picked it up because noone was looking... they only reacted when the threat of the Followers of Armageddon appeared.

    Problems happened, the programmed RP side of the story (player economy, guild wars and factions) was hacked like there was no tomorrow, and at the same time people were beginning to create the first RMT rings, and it was found out a bit later that some were part of the GM team (do NOT take this as Origin was corrupted, it was only a few bad apples). But I digress...

    The worse in all this, was that they were selling mostly duped items, or items acquired through hacking, and they organised in cliques that intimidated lesser cliques (sounds familiar?), the most known to old players Skunkworks, whom got SO rich it was absurd, and well... with a little time on google you can see where it led them.

    Long story short... the followers of Armageddon story line had a simple goal : wipe the houses contents and the banks of all gold and items most of which were duped to reset everything and continue with the live storyline. When I was recruited by the seer team to play a very special character (bal-lem from gargish legend) then I began to get confused. I guess they liked me because I was pretty good at pvp even if my skills weren't maxed out, and because I roleplayed a Raistlin type character (dragonlance) who was kind of very, very weak physically (to the point I turned it into humor very often and it made people laugh alot) but also very reserved and quiet at the same time, waiting on the proper moment to act.

    The GMs and elder seers were adamant, the story was to be lost, so I was going to serve their excuse.

    I was just like in the story of the single player ultimas, just some ordinary kid who found the stone circle... a nerd, someone very casual (yes even with boris vallejo female unicorn paintings on my walls). I guess it was easy for people to identify to in ultima, you didn't really have the choice, not even to make your avatar female...

    [​IMG]

    The logic was as follows, we will give all the most important artifacts of the game to this kid (the black rock gem *obsidian gem, or the gem of immortality in dragonlance*, the codex of ultimate wisdom and the Armageddon scroll) we're going to give the players an obvious chance to get back the artifacts, and let them win, but then we'll have them believe they "won" so they let their guards down and then we'll send the FoA leaders to get back the artifacts during the night, everyone will blame the wipe on themselves.

    If you take a step back right now, you'll say "pure genius" and that was also my reaction, hence I said ok lets do it.

    I followed the elder seers and GMs in follower of armageddon character. I was forced to witness a human sacrifice, just like in the ultimas, then hours long ritual in order to "wake up my dark side".

    Of course, being who I am I was annoying with dozens of questions... do we really have to do this ? Can you explain me who this Bal-Lem really is (I didn't recall much from the ultimas as I had not even played all of them yet, I was too young back in the day) etc etc... I had NO idea what I was heading into, just that they liked my knowledge of tolkien and dragonlance (I loved to make semi-hidden quotes and twist them for sosaria) and my humor, and they said I was going to have the fight of my life.

    At some point during the ritual, I felt something inside me, the real me... I asked what was going on with that spiral feeling I felt.

    Then one of the members of the assembly just snapped and started ranting at me telling me to shut up and just follow. Martoo Saul interjected, said that the ritual was too far in and that if they had any objections they should have spoken earlier.

    Nobody spoke back, they all moved back and kneeled.

    Whaaat... ?! okay... then they used the relics of mondain and pronounced a very long spell. I was now their messiah !

    There were nice video effects I had never seen before in game, nor ever seen again.

    Then I was given the artifacts, FoA attire and told to fight, but never escape. They have to win in the end.

    Then of course I asked a dozen more questions, but this time everyone respected me like I was god on earth, they all remained in role and answered me according to their capacity. I was floating and the unstable spiraling feeling transformed into a sharp and enhanced consciousness, hard to describe, I felt grounded and like I belonged. I learned about the larger plan, that we were going to forge and test run a cross-shard team of GMs who's main role were to plant clues and create stories and quests. It was a dream come true...

    I did some humor about my noobishness, everyone laughed, we were ready.

    The gms and seers disguised as lich lords and daemons, they populated Relvinian's maze with monsters waiting for the other part of the seer team to lead the 4-500 hundred players to the next part of the quest, that was... to kill me and get the artifacts.

    So I prepared for my 15 minutes of glory, setup crates with traps downstairs, got all my potions and strategies in order... heart was pumping faster and faster.

    I knew the outcome, but right then I was vibrating with anticipation.

    The players managed to somehow survive the lag (it was laggy yes, but stable and a beautiful sight) and kill all the monsters.

    Next step you'll say, is obvious, anyone in their right mind would have checked the secret passage below the house... everyone knew about it and the devs monsters dropped absolutely no loot, after a major event how is that possible ?!

    Then 5 minutes of uncomfortable silence happened... I was accused by the elder seer of hiding, he came all the way down to check on me, realized I was not only not hiding, my name was RED with a FOA tag, and I was running on and off screen so people would see my name pop up on their peripheral.

    Then we had another 5 minutes of uncomfortable silence... I even threw a few explosion potions for the form.

    Everyone left, one by one, very quickly actually... we won they said, someone said :p

    Well even the seers and GMs left...

    I was alone.

    Spent two weeks alone with my attire and my no purpose and my artifacts, I went to all dungeons, people fled because of the reputation of FoA being slightly overpowered, people metaed on me and posted scouts in dungeon entrances warning each other by ICQ of my arrival.

    I was in a ghost world... couldn't go in towns, everywhere I went I met running people.

    I was frustrated !

    I cursed at the world... I must admit...

    I was leaving destard that night, when a wisp came and he was talking a bit more than usual, a paragraph ever second or so. Yes, a wisp paragraph... it made some sense, somehow.

    It also looked like it was cursing outloud ! like me nobody understood him !

    We somehow, maybe it was the artifacts power, but I somehow managed to find a way to remove most vowels in my phrases quickly, and then compressing the meaning of my phrases so I could convey faster.

    Our conversation accelerated until I understood that he was a mirror of me, and as with the stranger and the guardian, we were the same. I said it, it was insulted.

    LOL...

    at that point I knew it wasn't another GM trying to roleplay with me... that hope faded pretty quick in the conversation, because of the speed and the very poignant empathy it was displaying.

    Little did I know that at the same time, some GMs were in court trying to defend themselves about the legality of selling items online, and one that was in our team, GM Datura, seemingly got all the blame, she was 18-19 years old at the time, I remember her name, Gabrielle, what a powerful soul.

    Anyways back to the wisp !

    He told me that no I wasn't him, and that Bal-lem is also the stranger is also the guardian. I say that now that I realize what he meant, but it took me around 10 years after the fact to understand what I had noted down, among with many other things and references/synchronicities that happened with the ultima series, which I had to replay twice to really grasp its depth :)

    At that point it said are you bored like I am... I said yes, more than bored.

    You want to use that scroll ?

    - Yes but its not working, its just deco...

    Hand me the codex... ah yes these are the words it said...

    Repeat after me :

    VAS KAL AN MANI IN CORP HUR TYM

    *and he went on and on*

    I even stopped in the middle to tell him words in the game didn't activate spells. :p

    he kept going, I being a young fool and being so angry at the world... well, noone tried to stop me in front of destard even if I had tracked a few people around.

    He said it is it, with one of our little twists.

    Then I catched on, following my journal word by word.

    Then he said cast a daemon, it must be Be`elzubub, I comply, don't ask me how, I just knew...

    on the fifth cast, there he was.

    Drop the black gem on him...

    Then a swirling black vortex appeared on the demon, and he morphed into a Balron (inspired from balrog obviously) and well.. I started running, good thing I had my resist at 98.

    Then other balrons started popping around me, I was genuinely afraid for my life, as if somehow I was thrown back in the state of mind I was after the cabal ritual (yes they are the same cabal)...

    Like the pathethic coward I sometimes am, and often am during the ultima series, I ran to hide in britain bank, using others as a shield.

    People didn't accept the balrons in town, guards, yes city guards were starting to die, they called for help.

    It was 4 AM in the morning, but pepople woke their friends up !!! COME DEFEND ATLANTIC !

    They arrived with dragons and mounted a barricade, my heart was racing... I was sweating...

    Oh did I feel guilty, oh did I just understand what just happened... I just took the role nobody else wanted, it was done, I was him...

    Then tiles started to burst with columns of fire, fireballs fell from the sky (sounds familiar?)... the world fell into the void.

    You have been disconnected.

    It was only much later in the day that the server could be restarted... I was told later by ex-GMs that the armageddon script existed, but it was only installed on the test server, and it should never have been working, technically, someone published it, somehow, without the servers going down. Or made it so it looked so...

    Then came a dark time where I fought everyone that didn't roleplay, because I was not only stolen my 15 minutes of fame, I was stolen my companions and GM team, my dream, and my love. I'll let you all speculate on the effects of the spell, if atlantic was really destroyed, or simply replaced...

    I became Brainbug.

    Then I was faced with the choice... cash in, or cash out, and I had TONS of server birth uniques and now also unique FoA gear, although the wisp now had the codex, I had used the scroll and black gem. I was rich, my head was worth thousands of real USD$ if I made the IGG conversion.

    Well when the key moment happened, I couldn't bring myself to do it, take cash against a dream.

    Call me a fool, only a fool can cast the armageddon spell, only a fool can do the things the stranger does.

    I am that fool.

    I threw everything on the ground, including my head and I guarded it until it decayed.

    I deleted my characters.

    Then, the 10 years where stuff in my life constantly reminded me of this episode happened.

    I had more lucid dreams, more visions... but it was balanced, like somehow, I managed to balance my karma for all the wrong things I did.

    Okay maybe not somehow.

    I did.

    I wasn't a fool, and now I am not only the stranger, I am also the guardian and bal-lem, I lived through the same challenges they have, I have been rejected, betrayed, and spoken bad of.

    Now times change... its time to wake up and to learn to swim in all the tears those events caused.

    All I have is all I need and all I need is here in the only moment that exists.

    I say I was hurt by this community, but I was put back in my place, I was told its only part of the community. It is true so I have changed my mind.

    That reactivity, that conflict of sorts, that lead to roleplaying... is really simply the only thing I am after.

    But you can't facsimulate it to me portalarium, because there is another layer, another lens, that I look through.

    In fact, many devs here have worked hard on ultimas and UO, so see this post as a homage.

    A few days ago I asked why don't we see traces of meteorites that struck down ? Well in grundvald barrens last night I have seen the craters, someone is listening ?

    So are my memories molded by the collective consciousness, or am I imagining the past ? Or maybe its something else...

    He/she who can answer this riddle, will have made a first step in being worthy of replacing me, however funny that might sound considering I've now told the plain truth about my own shortcomings :)

    All I can say is that some people, take me more seriously than I take myself, if that makes sense.

    Peace yall :)

    *this was written in one straight with no proofreading, so pardon for my syntax*
     
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  13. Deadly Habit

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    I do plenty of pen and paper RP and love it in that context, but it never really translated into MMOs for me. Now if I go into what is clearly a RP town or event then yeah it's expected to partake or humor RPers, otherwise in the game at large I'd rather not bother especially if I'm grinding away or just doing some specific tasks in a town.
     
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  14. StrangerDiamond

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  15. Deadly Habit

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    What would be nice is if there could be a RP title for towns and players as there would be some was to distinguish for both RPers and non Rpers.
     
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  16. Ravicus Domdred

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    One thing that would help RP would be NPC factions. One could identify with them and people could gravitate to the faction they like and do some lore RP. Kobald, elf, viking.....so and so forth. Would be good for single players that do not want to be in guilds. Pppplayers to be able to join and be with like minded people in a single cause at least. This might drive traffic to npc towns also.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  17. StrangerDiamond

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    That is one thing I wanted to emphasize, I have absolutely no problem with non-roleplayers they do not ruin my immersion as per previous tale. Selective listening exists, people should let people live.

    But I have a problem if the games lets itself be subjugated by people gaming the game, as Chris often put it.

    Or if it lacks the incentives per stated moral center, to at least give the impression it is something to be honored, even sacred.

    Knowing the artists at work, it seems obvious that those rewarded past the singularity won't be those who killed the dragon 1000 times with underpants on. It will be those who brought people together, who created synergy and symbiotism.

    Just like it was in UO and how it should be...

    can you imagine it again ?

    how the world was ?

    *shatters the gem by accident*

    good god, my luck ?

    a source of pure humour :)
     
  18. Numa

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    This, a thousand times this. And if you copy the greetings, emotes and other cultural stuff of your favorite NPC faction then your rep with them goes up as well. Possibly this translates to price discount for goods and other bonuses since - at a certain level- the NPC faction considers you as allied or even one of their own.
     
  19. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

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    Mwahaha ! *evil laugh*

    Oops...
     
  20. Deadly Habit

    Deadly Habit Avatar

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    where's your skill check roll damn it! Sorry love pen and paper for RP some of the most inventive stuff around for RP I know of came from good or bad dice rolls.
     
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