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Scaled COTO repair costs

Discussion in 'Release 36 Dev+ Feedback Forum' started by Lord Barugon, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. Rosemourne

    Rosemourne Avatar

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    It's not that they "now" want us to exchange real money for gear repairs. That was *ALWAYS* a thing since COTOs came around. Now they're making it more expensive, which is fine with me. If someone has their +15 suit of armour, they shouldn't be able to repair it to full for $5 every month.

    Real money for repairs on their in game gear isn't new. While I do see the argument that the game is a bit more P2W now because people with thicker wallets can repair their gear and can afford +15 everything, this really isn't different than now. People who have thick wallets bought COTOs, sold them for gold on their CF vendor and then bought the suits for 300k to use on their level 20 characters, which they bought the XP on.

    This change isn't suddenly making the game P2W. COTOs existing did that. This change is making the market viable for crafters. If you have your +15 suit, are you really going to ditch it and get a new suit for 350k+ or are you going to spend $5 (or 10k IGG) on COTOs to repair them?

    Frankly people shouldn't be upset that the repair cost on COTOs is going up. They should be upset that COTOs are even capable of repairing max durability, instead of using the repair skill and actually giving a purpose to that skill.
     
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  2. lollie

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    It's not "fine" with the rest of us...probably will be like 20 people max who are "fine" with it and the rest of everyone thinks this is a shameless and offensive cash grab.
     
  3. 0Psiris

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    I'm not bothered at all with this. At first I was very wary of the change, but after doing some basic math I am convinced that it will have no appreciable impact on the vast majority of the player base.

    People are right to be concerned as this could be a very dangerous change if it was more extreme, but as it stands it just isn't all that terrible. The larger concern (that really needs to be addressed) is the drop rate of flavored CotOs and why they cannot be used for repairs/tax payment as well (not being able to do so gives a stack of ammo to claimants of P2W).
     
  4. Rosemourne

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    I don't think it should be seen like that. While I'm not in their group to know the incentive, I can tell you right now that COTOs are single-handedly destroying the market. I personally have used COTOs on my sword to fix it instead of getting a new one multiple times because it costs freaking 1.2k gold to buy a COTO and fix it to full, When it costs FOUR times as much to even make that same sword BEFORE ENCHANTS. The big take away here is that players who are playing WITHOUT cash investment (Such as myself) are buying COTOs from players and using them on their weapons now instead of purchasing new armour and weapons from craftsmen in game.

    As a GM Blacksmith and enchanter, who masterworks, enchants, and makes all forms of Blacksmithing gear, you'd think I would have a market, right? Right now there are necklaces, rings, and swords on my merchant in Owl's Head that have been priced literally at 3/4 the cost of materials to even craft the items. DESPITE THIS, they haven't moved from that vendor in two weeks. Why? COTOs.

    NO ONE IS BUYING CRAFTED GEAR BECAUSE IT COSTS 1,500 IN GAME GOLD TO FIX THEIR ITEM, OR 3k+ TO EVEN ATTEMPT TO MAKE ANOTHER

    It's not a cash grab, it's a patch to fix the charlie foxtrot that is COTOs repairing gear.
     
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  5. lollie

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    How is the sixth repair = 30 COTOs "not all that terrible"

    Nobody will be using their good gear except for wealthy and careless people, which makes this a PAY TO WIN mechanic.
     
  6. Bowen Bloodgood

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    COTOs for repair was a bad idea to begin with. What the (choose your favorite ____) does a coin have to do item repair? Crafting stations are now coin operated. I never liked that... which is also one of the reasons I never liked increasing repair costs.

    Now I wouldn't necessarily call it a direct pay to win.. BUT.. I can't say it isn't either. It's not so much buying new power as it is allowing people to pay cash to continue using existing power beyond most other players that they would otherwise have to replace.

    Why nobody else but me seems concerned enough to talk about the long term implications of these items never leaving the world is a little baffling. I for one have no interesting in storing or displaying every bit of 'retired' gear. And this notion of people saving their 'good stuff' for those dragon raids.. yeah they'll save them.. but when those raids happen.. their good stuff will still collect dust. Been there.. helped design the t-shirt. People either forget.. can't be bothered "this time" or they don't want to damage their good stuff for a 20 minute event. Watched people do that for years in my NWN days as a DM.
     
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  7. Solstar

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    Since I agree that COTOs shouldn't play a part in the crafting economy, I technically agree that this favors folks with deep pockets. In that regard, this is not cool, but only in so far as COTOs shouldn't even be able to repair.

    BUT, if they are going to keep this coto repair mechanic, this change helps to significantly limit their influence on the crafting cycle.
     
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  8. Lord Aventine

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    I agree.
     
  9. Solstar

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    Again, this will force the Devs to lower material requirements in order to make crafting viable.

    This limits COTOs involvement with the crafting cycle AND will make grinding out gear not "as" painful.

    It'll just take a few releases for them to implement.
     
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  10. lollie

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    Why would they lower crafting costs so people could then go and make the server full of hungry grindy players lots of disposable cheap gear so nobody has to effect repairs and buy COTOs off them?

    That would make implementing COTO repair pointless in the first place.

    COTOs should not have anything to do with player power/gear/skill/etc.

    This terrible design decision (or was it a drunken jest, I can't tell) needs to be reversed yesterday.
     
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  11. Solstar

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    You're not mentioning the masterwork/ enchanted gear that will still be difficult (though not as difficult) to create.

    Anyone can make a stick with nails in it, but that doesn't mean anyone will buy it. Sure , there will be more low quality gear available, but there will be less of a reason to sell it. (Supply will dominate demand)

    The really good gear will still be rare because of the RNG. Right now is just a huge pain in the ass to gather the materials. Lowering that gate will not make Mastercraft and enchanting percentages any lower.

    There will still be a Coto market, but it won't have as much of a pervasive impact on the crafting game as it does now. Which then obviates the need to make COTOs do other things, like Port has been saying COTOs will do but hasn't been implemented yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  12. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I agree that I don't see why this would lower material requirements.

    There are several design goals the devs are trying to hold on to here.. one of those is that gear has value. They want there to be "good gear" that people care about and want to use. Among other things this gives crafters some meaning. Though I personally do not agree with this approach and think it's ridiculous and gamey.. it is not a major point of contention for me. I can spend a day in the mines and finish it off with a full suit of epic plate. I'm not overly concerned about material requirements.. and making gear that much easier to replace does defeat the purpose of repairing max durability..

    Now why repair max durability at all then you may ask? Is to ensure that gear last long enough for its history to have meaning. Another goal devs are trying to hold on to.

    To be clear.. I am actually in favor of the design goals.. I'm not in favor of how they're going about achieving them.
     
  13. Bowen Bloodgood

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    What it will do is give players that many more items to make mastercraft and enchanted items with. While the success chance per item may not change.. the number of items will.
     
  14. Solstar

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    Which will then lower the market value for that gear. (Though not nearly as much as the non- Mc gear) Win/win.
     
  15. Solstar

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    The Mastercraft game needs to be toned down slightly on the high end of the spectrum anyway.
     
  16. Bowen Bloodgood

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    Which won't happen when it conflicts with high priority design goals.
     
  17. Solstar

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    The amount of available quality gear HAS to increase because of this repair change. Otherwise the amount of work necessary to create it will not justify doing it, because everyone knows all the gear will break sooner or later, so why buy it. (at the high prices crafters will have to charge to just break even)
     
  18. lollie

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    Why would they do this? Why involve COTOs in the first place if they want people to make loads of quality gear for low prices so we can throw it all away easily? We'd never repair a thing if we could buy quality gear cheaply.

    They need to make repairs use ingame items that have less obvious RMT value. I say "less obvious" because this whole game revolves around taking real dollars from people - every single resource in this game is getting sold for real dollars in the marketplace forums...the way SotA is working out it's getting worse than the most grabby of Asian style f2p grind games...at this rate I'll end up sitting in my house throwing rocks down at the bots all day instead of ever playing.

    And bots will be all that's left too.
     
  19. Bowen Bloodgood

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    If no one is buying.. that alone should bring prices down. You don't need to reduce material costs for that. If supply is too high and prices too low.. repair becomes moot and that's bad design.
     
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  20. Solstar

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    That is where balance comes in to play. You and lollie are only focusing on extremes. I'm saying the changes won't be as drastic.

    They can lower grind (which is desperately needed, imo) without making high end gear trivial. This Coto change is just the first step. I just know it.
     
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