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Scaling Random Encounters

Discussion in 'Release 16 Feedback' started by Hraw, Apr 16, 2015.

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  1. Hraw

    Hraw Avatar

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    I did a search both on the site and google and nothing turned up, I know this probably pre-dates R16 but I wanted to throw this out there.

    I love the random overworld encounter idea

    It is more of a nuisance though after gaining a few levels since there is no challenge - I can always just run out or gather resource nodes, etc.

    But it would be really cool if the strength of the mobs scaled to roughly match the strength of the party that trips the random encounter
     
  2. majoria70

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    Well the random encounters we have now are not IMO like what we will eventually have. The system was put in place to test out, but then with time constraints they did not get to do much with them but add resources to them and a bunch of creatures to fight, and copies of different biomes already in the game. It is a great topic though which has been discussed for ideas. Sorry I don't have the links. Random encounters could present a quest opportunity where you come into a scene that doesn't have monsters to fight but an NPC or NPC's in need of help. So hopefully we see some examples of more interesting random encounters soon, but perhaps we have just what there is because the Devs don't want to give away the story. I agree sometimes they happen at the worste time. Lately I have just been resource hunting so I take the time to gather resources from them. If I'm in a group, I usually head for the exit.;)
     
  3. Weins201

    Weins201 Avatar

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    Has been discussed about 4 time by myself alone asking fro Random Encounters to be scaled to the level of the player. Not a peep in reply :-(
     
  4. Archibald Leatherneck

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    Six one, half a dozen the other. Some view scaled random encounters as hand holding. You could just as easily view it as scaling down for lower levels. Packs of bears magically get larger and more lethal as you level up?

    All that said... I would be fine as long as the reward scaled as the risk scaled on random encounters.
     
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  5. Hraw

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    Well to avoid the hand-holding argument, the scaling could be +/- 25% (or some other arbitrary percentage) below or above the strength of the party pulled into the encounter. So you never know if you are getting something slightly below, above or at your strength (using whatever metrics Portalarium deems best). And yes I assumed any loot from the fight would scale as well just like it does with normal mob difficulty.

    Even if only some random encounters were scaled, at least it wouldn't be a yawner every single time you get pulled in. When it said "prepare for battle", you would have to actually be mentally ready when the loading screen cleared because you would never know if a it was going to be a real fight or some bear cub who smells your apple pie.
     
  6. KuBaTRiZeS

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    What seems more logical to me is to scale % of getting dragged into random encounters regarding the actual strength of the enemies around the zone. It seems logical to be attacked often if you enter into a zone where enemies are stronger than you.

    I'm not against enemies putting a worthy fight in random encounters (at the moment they're pretty dull) but it's not logical to fight liches near owl's head just because you're level 80, so maybe a certain level of scaling using the average monster level of the zone as reference may be nice, since it doesn't seem to much work to be implemented.

    What random encounters reaaaally need to be interesting is some more background options other than "you're under attack by a bunch of generic monsters!" (Fallout 1 random encounters as reference) and to lower the monster density in most of the maps (raises the value of having an encounter since you don't have a sea of XP waiting for you in every single map) but i don't expect to see this kind of stuff until later development stages.
     
  7. Hraw

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  8. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Good idea on stronger attackign weaker, but you would also have to consider how to deal with whether or not what could be gained from those encounters (That will be rarely encountered by strogner players, and encoutnered more often by weaker players) would impact the economy. (a greater abundance of lower end materials due to more beign available from random encounters at lower levels?)

    as far as makign them more interesting, the way the encoutners are now is just Placeholder. There will be a ncie veriety of types of encounters when the system is fully implimented. As well as Roving, "not so random" encounters.
     
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  9. Jocularis

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  10. draykor darkale

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    Are the roving creatures from release 18 a replacement or an addition? I don't want to be walking around a map avoiding a creature only to be dragged in to another random event. They definitely need to scale though.
     
  11. draykor darkale

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    Damn, that sold horribly, I will take a look at the android version.
     
  12. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    Care to share what makes random encounters special in King of Dragon Pass?

    Thanks for sharing the game, but why is it a crowning example of random encounters? Does it do them well? How?
     
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  13. majoria70

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    hmmmm I looked up King of Dragon Pass on youtube and waited for it to start, but it is something you read and sorry I did not read through it to see how to play. So I'm not sure what the point is regarding using that game as an example, but perhaps Jocularis can elaborate on that. Also welcome to Shrouds Jocularis. :)
     
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  14. Spoon

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    The whole game is pretty much 40-60% random encounters.

    you have a clan/tribe where you can select leaders etc. You got some control over harvest, resource allocation etc
    but the real game lies in that almost every two months or so you get a random encounter.
    The options you have in the random encounter are determined by your leaders and their abilities.

    This then opens up chained random events.

    So for instance:
    "two of your tribe members stole away and declare themselves married without consulting elders..."

    bad breech of tradition but what to do, if you have someone influenced by the god of fertility you might get
    "forgive them but require tribute"
    if you had a conservative Law god leader you could get
    "breaking tradition will lead to curse from the gods, banish them from the tribe."

    etc

    Each option could then have reprocussions.

    Forgiving them could lead to "angry gods" encounter, or a "pregnancy but child is cursed", or "the tribe is unhappy with your decision", or "people rejoice in your forgiveness and proclaim a feast, how to fund the feast".
    etc
    while selecting banishment, then they could join another tribe, plot revenge and 15 years later you are mortal enemies with that tribe and they now get a "the child of the banished parents lead the tribe against you".

    Really complex, and always dual answers with ambiguous results.
     
  15. Satan Himself

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    Might as well just make a game about politics ......
     
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  16. KuBaTRiZeS

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    That's all about tweaking numbers. The point of weaker players finding more encounters in dangerous zones is to make them have a though time, so if you decide to fight, it will be innefficient from a grinding point of view. Requiring both skill and some time to clear the mobs. In my opinion, since both % chance of encounter and % of finding monster X on zone Y can be set, economy doesn't have to fear from this kind of system, because it can be balanced taking the economy in consideration. the Other side of this suggestion is that stronger players doesn't find random encounters in weaker zones as often as a proper player. On the middle ground you have players in an adequate zone from a level standpoint, having a reasonable amount of random encounters. Something similar can be applied to roving encounters; if you're weaker than a roving encounter it will move towards you as soon as you get somewhere near it, and if you're stronger it will stay there or just move away.

    Of course this is only a general presentation. If implemented every case should be treated independently giving more flavor to the whole map. Undead probably chase all players, while bandits on the road tends to fight against players wearing expensive robes and stay away from players with powerful equipment... everything related to the average power of the zone.

    Yes, i'm aware of those, eagerly waiting for it to be implemented since i want to feel the map as part of the game, not just something used to go from place X to place Y. What i wanted to highlight is that i expect density population in scenes to be lower. At the moment every zone is overpopulated and you can't take a step without falling into a fight; that's ok right now, we're in prealpha and we don't want to run out of monsters to kill, but apart from that overpopulated zones makes no sense. As soon as roving and random encounters are implemented i expect scenes to have monsters cleverly placed and not just all over the place, so a forest scene feels like forests with some fauna, not some trees in a sea of wolves. I think that would be right to make the scenes more believable and to give encounters more value, because nobody is going to stop killing roving monsters if you have all you want standing in the same zone, waiting for you to swipe through them.
     
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  17. Hraw

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    Excellent input so far, thanks everyone

    In case it wasn't obvious before, I was simply making the suggestion to improve the fun factor for higher level / stronger players / groups. I don't think it needs to be complicated or require a lot of development effort. And who knows? Maybe Portalarium already has this planned out - I understand the current implementation may simply be a placeholder.

    I just wanted to throw it out there for discussion.
     
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  18. Atticus Gryphonheart

    Atticus Gryphonheart Legend of the Hearth

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    I am not in favor of scaling to be honest. I mean, if you are outside of owls head, the outskirts of an area most likely patrolled by guards, the tough critters would be long gone or killed. Only a few "brave" critters would occasionally appear. An algorithm could be programmed base on the Avatar's level and location when in an a certain area. Basically, A bunch of wolfs might attack a few low levels it comes upon, but may be able to sense the approach of a powerful party. Eventually, you just wont get drawn into an encounter outside of Owlshead. Rather than get drawn into a tedious confrontation, it is avoided completely.

    Conversely, if your only level 5 and you decide to go running through an area near a shardfall, the encounter may be scaled way up. You shouldn't even be in that area. Heck, again using that algorithm maybe there is an increased chance of encounter.

    My 2 cents.
     
  19. Hraw

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    Atticus that is a valid viewpoint for certain. But I don't know how that reconciles with the general theme of any player can travel anywhere and not having low level areas and higher level areas in various parts of the game world. I'm really looking more for increasing fun without totally breaking realism. In the end, if high strength players / groups do not get random encounters near places like Owl's Head, that would work also. I trust Portalarium to strike the right balance there. I only wanted to give feedback that getting pulled into a random encounter where the enemies are trivial is not fun to me and that I also think it would be awesome if when I am pulled in, it is always or at least generally a fun fight scenario - hopefully imagination can be used keep it as realistic as possible as well :)
     
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  20. Atticus Gryphonheart

    Atticus Gryphonheart Legend of the Hearth

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    I think it is still doable. The algorithm is used based on location, level of avatar and level of creatures in the area. Then another check to see level of creatures actually in the encounter from a wandering chart, with 5% chance for the strongest and 5% for the weakest (adjusted how Portlarium see fit).

    Avatar of low levels should probably stick to the roads, occasionally they might get attacked, but roads in general are more secure. However, if they want to cross the swamp instead of go around the swamp, well, depends on what can live in that swamp.

    Now some roads would be more dangerous than others, again dependent on various factors, but as a general rule, low levels should stick to the roads when traveling. Risk increases if leave the "protected" roads.

    Again, assumptions have to be made, but they aren't breaks from realism. For instance, the road going through the deep darkwood forest may be more risky compared to the road the Kingport. However, some patrolling from in world NPCs must be occurring, even if not seen physically on these roads (or heck that could also be on the wandering chart). The algorithm can be tweaked base on location as needed making it possible for low levels to travel through such area, albeit with a higher risk compared to higher level going through.
     
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