Seeking Info On Player Killing

I am seeking information on the PK part of the game.

All I think that we can say for certain is that some circumstances might put you in a position to be killed by another player and that the upper limit of possible connected players could be about 100.

My fear; PKs will halt their game progression on missions or circumstances such as this and just constantly troll to kill. That is how they operate, typically well funded individuals who prey on the weak without much fear of penalty. They will find every little nook and cranny in a game and exploit it to the fullest extent.

Unacceptable; I do not want to be forced to play offline, and I do not want to be forced to play only with people I know because my group of friends does not include RPG players, and I do not want to be forced to constantly manage a complex and clunky filter of players in which I can/cannot connect to.

PKs typically devote all of their funds into the purchase of best weapons and skill/stat increases, weather or not that is allowed in SotA remains to be seen however the fact is they will configure their PK to be skilled at killing. I want to play as a crafter and will have no chance against them, I do not want to be forced to seek protection. If I am to take the risk of walking my weak crafter out into the PK world, there had better be some very serious risk for PKs such as permadeath.

I came here last night looking for info, all of the topics on the forum confused me even more due to the fact everyone is talking about full loot which gears towards creating an environment rich for PKs preying on the weak. I logged into the chat to try and seek information also, however I basically got insulted out by people who want 50v50 PK wars. One of the moderators in chat was also having a go at me which was awesome, if this is truly where the game is headed, I want nothing to do with it.

I would like some concrete words, stats, ideas, limits, anything on this asap.

I can't be the only one? Aren't there other players out there who want to have a good Ultima time without having the standard MMO problem of PKs, yet still interact in a safe manner with other players in a dynamic world? Come on out, don't be scared of PKs here on the forum

 

You are not alone. Many want to play non-combat classes. I want my danger in the world to be from monsters.

 

Many on these forums aren't aware of this, but since Ultima Online went anti-PK with the release of the Trammel facet and later, item insurance, thousands of player killers were made homeless and have struggled since to find a game which offers them what UO did back in the day - full loot open PvP.

Games like Darkfall and Mortal Online have fallen very short, yet the forums for these games have long been populated with these gameless souls and they have become a very vocal minority on sandbox MMO forums, seeking a return to their favoured playstyle, and who can blame them.

I will however say, that you do not need to worry about full scale, full loot open PvP in SotA as I have seen no indication that this is the direction we are heading. Lets not forget that you hold the power to whom you play with and these players will only have a single character, one whom you could choose to 'not see'. I myself prefer an open PvP, full loot world, simply for the heightened sense of risk gained from such a feature; I cannot however see how such widescale risk could feature in a game with such selective networking in multiplayer mode.

PvP, even maybe full loot will feature in SotA, but in my opinion, nowhere near to the degree talked about on these forums. Remember, Ultima Online was the most ruthless open PvP world to date, so take every post with this in mind as many see this as the next hope for a return to something like that. Expect PvP in the most sense to be consensual, or opt in widespread open PvP. I may be wrong but, I doubt it.

 

I agree with nearly everything you have said Khumash. ironman is right, you are not alone!

I did see your chat by the way, felt sorry for you lol, but they basically did the same thing to me 30 mins earlier on the same exact subject. Jefu is 100% correct, the PKs are very very vocal and they are willing to troll and voice that opinion all over any place they think they can get someone to listen.

 

Its less that we are not aware of it TheJefu and more that its not a viable rule set for the masses in modern gaming. Full loot open pvp games are a niche market now as you pointed out, and I think all of us here are hoping this game will be bigger than that. In order for full loot open pvp to be fun for PK's aka wolves you need "sheep" for them to hunt. Unfortunately that rule set is only fun for the wolves, and provides little enjoyment for the sheep.

The wolves often claim "Make it risk vs reward, give better crafting materials in open pvp areas!" Yet this still only benefits the wolves. If a sheep gets killed gathering in their buffed area the wolves now get high end materials as a bonus. Where is the extra risk for the wolves? If the sheep survives well that's awesome, now the wolves can buy better weapons and armor to kill the sheep with from their vendors! Its always a win for a wolf, and always a loss over the long term for the sheep.

All this leads to a system where the sheep get frustrated and eventually quit and the wolves get bored because most, not all, of them are not interested in fighting other wolves that can fight back.

Consensual PVP is awesome AND sustainable and I very much hope its in the game. Non consensual PVP by definition is only fun for 50% of the participants and is not a great way to build a long term sustainable game.

All said the devs are smart people with tons of experience and know all of this already, so I don't think us crafters have to worry too much!

 

I also agree, PK'ers are gonna be out there; Reguardless of the Risk

Im hoping the Devs think about when it comes to PK'ers and maybe deter them from having a Life of just PKing those whom dont wish to engage them.

They should enjoy whats already IN the game as well as its Challanges and not how many Ear's I can rip off corpses of those whom Mine, Skin and gather materials for there professions.

 

I agree with you both. Don't get me wrong, I say I prefer the risk laden environment, but this is coming from a man who still to this day plays retro UO shards as a full time crafter, roleplayer and socialiser. Bring me a new era of an online Ultima game and I'll be doing the same irrelevant of the PvP context.

The challenge ahead of the team will be to distill what was best from Ultima Online and the Ultima games of the past. Anything that comes close will be a joy to behold.

 

*Begin flashback sequence*
<i>I remember mining and selling my wares at Minoc bank to folks that were out adventuring, since my connection was quite bad at the time.

One day, a group of PKs decided to take over the mine that not only I, but several other miners, worked at to supply the town. They killed us when we were were trying to mine, they took our ore when it was too much for us to carry and had to leapfrog it around. Distraught, we returned to Minoc bank and the players that we typically supplied found out we were being slaughtered, and rallied a group to fight off the PKs.

The battle was bloody, both sides losing warriors but finally the PKs were brought to their knees and promised they would not attack the miners, as long as they could buy from us as well (but at a higher price mwahahaha).</i>
*End flashback*

And so there was possibly one of the most enjoyable, not just for me, but possibly every other player that was involved in that scuffle, a great memory.

I don't wish that to be non-existent here. If you know you are adventuring in an area that you might be attacked in, be prepared for it. Of course, there should be some sort of restrictions in place but that's up for further debate on another thread somewhere.

And btw, I'm NOT a PK... if anything I'm an Anti-PK but first and foremost a Procurer of Goods/Merchant.

I truly believe that PKs don't just stop progression indefinitely just to troll others. They have to progress at some point, else they'd lose the battles later as players just went and did other quests.

Remember that not every spot will have up to 100 people in it, that might just be for events or "battlegrounds". If you're still in online mode, you should be able to do your quest without worrying about a group of 10 PKs ganking you.

That's just my guess but who knows? Time will tell. Patience is a virtue...

 

Allow myself to introduce....myself. I am a pretty old school PK, I got my start with MMO PK of course in UO. I PK in everything I play, all the way to space sims like BSGO.

If there is a way to PK you, I will find it. If there is a way to reduce my risk to virtually nothing while I farm Miners and Lumberjacks, you had better believe I'm going to do it and without mercy.

Some games have a sweet spot where that is most profitable like Nodiatis, especially since it has passive experience progression, I can farm, mule, and progress 20 characters at a time effectivelly. The rules do not allow me to do it, but since I can do it without getting caught, I'm certainly going to make it happen.

Same goes for SotA. If it will be possible for me to get into a position in this game where I can PK to cause the most havoc with newbies and non-combatants, I will be in there and I'll find a way to stay in there.

About half of the games have PD for PKs, it isn't usually a good deterrant for myself though. I'm macro'd up pretty well with everything, and that just increses my natural micro ability by 1,000%. Even if I experience a PD, my bank account will support whatever actions are required to restore me to full PK capacity in the shortest period of time.

I doubt very much any sort of "filtering" is going to stop me from doing it, even if I have to get multiple accounts and tier my characters across the board so I can reach as many as possible.

Long story short, if you log in, I am coming for you.

 

@InsaneMembrane That is exactly what I'm talking about! Kudos to you for coming out of the woodwork with your "taboo" lifestyle of wanting to cause as much chaos and pain as possible.

I'm ultimately a fan of seeing all perspectives, let everyone get it out there and then work to the best resolution. You can't please everyone, that's just a fact.

But what we can do now is have a conversation with all angles.

Then again, if you're going to use exploits to hurt other player's experience in the game, you might eventually get banned.

 

Yeah, I can see quite a few PKs here who aren't quite willing to come out with it, no idea why.

Banning is nothing worse than a case of PD. Typically I keep all objects of value in a 3rd party mule anyway in a different account. A ban or PD doesn't bother me, I'll just come back in with the next account and drop the RPers.

 

I have been trying to push this an a user controlled MP settings. Like a controlled filter on the world population matchmaker.

The problem with PVP is that it is a buzz kill for those that don't like it. As such, PVP is usually throttle to some lame restrictions like certain areas or events. By allowing a flag for PVP, your world could be filled with people who want PVP and allow for open pvp. Those that don't want it won't see anyone who does.

I think this is the best chance that want PVP, like me, will get a rewarding PVP experience without forcing those that don't to play offline or single-player.

The problem has always been that PVP and non-PVP groups don't work well together in one game, and as such one or the other gets watered down. Since SOTA will be filtered MP anyway, this seems like the best of both worlds.

 

There is always a way to find you. It is more fun to PK the ones who try to avoid it at all costs. Since that is really what turns us on, it can't be avoided, we can't be avoided.

 

There are still those that will avoid it, but still want the flag on for the thrill.

And they can avoid it, they will just play on Single Player or with Friends. My bets there will be an ignore list as well, so even with PVP they can avoid you.

 

We will wait to see more of this "filter system"

 

There is an interview with Stratics where LB states he does not want open pvp and does not like flags, so it sounds like PVP will be enabled between 2 people on a quest type basis.

I.E. You get quest to transport illegal products which flags you open for PVP. At the same time, another player gets a quest that someone is transporting illegal goods and must be stopped.

I think this idea is good to help transition players that normally don't PVP into PVP, but I would like to see an option for those that want more PVP. This might work if there is a LOT of content quests for PVP, but I think we all need to understand LB vision and desires for the game and find ideas that mesh and have the greatest ability to make everyone happy.

Although, LB doesn't like flags I think that a flag in the filter is the greatest middle ground. Just because PVP filter is off; doesn't mean player won't find themselves forced into via a quest.

Can't wait to get more information.

 

From all the feedback that is being given about PvP, I wouldn't be suprised if more indepth mechanics were incorporated as a stretch goal as the pets and weather are met.

 

Insane, sorry to say this but they are going to cull your play-style in this game. You say you want the people who are looking to avoid combat, well the game is being designed so they can do specifically do this. It seems like the only non-consensual PKing will be if the victim chooses to undertake certain quests, and they will be forewarned of the possibility. Thus, by it's very nature it is consensual. How are you gonna find people who don't voluntarily accept PK quests, who play on friends only server, who play single player?

Granted, it's pretty early and a lot can change, but based on current information this game isn't going to be the wild west that UO was.

 

So you get your jollies out of spoiling other people's fun? An interesting motivation for a game based on upholding positive virtues such as Honour, Compassion, Sacrifice etc.

Some PKers can sway me with an argument that they enjoy the challenge of pitting themselves against a human opponent. Others say that the risk they generate adds to the enjoyment of the game. I can get that.

People like you though are a cancer to games like this. Your openly stated goal is to spoil people's fun. You get a "buzz" out of seeking out people who want to avoid this and get them. That's not adding to the game one iota, it's merely satisfying some repressed pathological urge you must suffer IRL.

I feel a little sad for you actually. Urges like yours speak of some deep problem that's not being fixed. You can rant and rail and tell me I'm wrong and I'm QQing, but that's a further symptom of what's wrong with you.

I hope you find a game that you can live your sociopathic little fantasies out in, but I sincerely hope it won't be this one.

 

@jivex5k, lol, you can never keep a fox from getting at the hens, we always do But let them try, it will be a good challenge! Besides, I am quite happy to camp one area the entire game and make it difficult for everyone. The game should force people to take risks for reward, its in every game, and so many are greedy. I'll be waiting.

@banalitybane, short answer is yes. Also those PKers who try to argue for the cause are just trying not to look as bad as they really are. ******** PKers like that generally call themselves "anti-PvPers" lol, thats the funniest thing ever. I call it like it is, as they should. We PK the weak because we can. I don't need to rant or rail you, I can respect your opinion, and then PK you