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Shroud 2020 Vision

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Astirian

    Astirian Avatar

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    Yeah, I'm out. I've been waiting (very, very patiently) since launch to play through Episode I with a revamped system.

    At this point, given the priorities, I don't even think the dialogue box art will be accessible for customization via Lua. I was planning to build a library of different styles but alas.

    Peace homies and good luck with the game, it's been one hell of a ride.
     
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  2. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    I go to a restaurant to be served.

    If they're not serving what I want, how I want, sure I can go raise cattle from scratch, grow wheat, churn buttler, bring it all into the kitchen, cook it myself, and bring the food back to the restaurant, sit down at the table, and eat it. Yes, this is technically possible.

    But it defeats the purpose of going to a restaurant. You're right, this is a game, a thing people do in their spare time for leisure. If it doesn't' fit the bill, people will find another that will.
     
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  3. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    != Galaxy. About the rest you may be right though. Didn't play for years ^^ which is a pitty.
    Oh please. What a nonsense. And I am sure you know that. I fondly remember the day where my alliance raised ore prices across the board by hunting enemy alliance miners for a week. After that we sold our stocked ore at a premium.
    Pretending eve is the dream of an open and transparent market is just, sorry Spung, bullshit. Monopolies and oligopolies are Eve's day to day bread and butter.
    If it would be as simple as people like to pretend here we would have a lot more mmos with working markets. Alas we have not.

    The issue with the race to the bottom is that it isn't so easy to explain as well as people like to pretend. In my experience it usually starts with China-farmers. (Which ofc would be supply outstripping demand but an artificial supply. If you know what I mean ^^)

    Now that's that out of the way: I too prefer a working in game economy. More transparency is nice but we need more than just that.
     
  4. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    I to was in the military and sure, in a life or death situation sure adapt or die but like you said, it's only a game but more importantly it's a product that was purchased with real money. I should not have to seek third party sources for some very basic game features. That's the point friend and me speaking my mind on this issue doesn't make me a snowflake after everything on a silver platter. It makes me a paying customer expecting a complete product.
     
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  5. Boris Mondragon

    Boris Mondragon Avatar

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    We are both paying customers with a choice. I use mine until a better choice comes along. Talk to @Chris for solutions as only he and his team can give you the finished product you and others want. I will continue to find a way to make it an enjoyable experience for me in the meantime. Thank you for your service brother. R/Boris
     
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  6. Boris Mondragon

    Boris Mondragon Avatar

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    You are correct in that you have a choice. Many people left this restaurant for another one and many went and came back. Its your choice to either deal with the menu offered or contact the restaurant owner and have him add what you want to the menu. Your choice your decision. R/Boris
     
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  7. Senash Kasigal

    Senash Kasigal Avatar

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    Absolutely agree! In this case, it will create a big exploitation problem.
    Anyone remember what happend in UO before Broadsword were forced to make their own InGame Vendorsearch?
    RMT Websites scanned Vendors and published their goods on their RMT Website, BUT only their own Vendors were visible for all.
    If you wanted your Vendor included, you had to pay them.
    I would like to see an InGame Vendorsearch, but not from a third party that is possibly filtered to their advantage.
     
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  8. Lars vonDrachental

    Lars vonDrachental Avatar

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    Well thinking about the vendors and the availability of data…if some automatic or in lua "hidden" information are unwanted...maybe adding something like this might be a possible solution:
    We get a “price book” that is using a local file as source. On using an item or hitting a key an interface is opening up and showing the entries of your know vendor data.
    Displayed are maybe the town, lot owner, vendor name, item, stack size, price and update time. Within this interface you can search and sort the entries as you please.

    Your personal “price book” is updated:
    A - If you are visiting the town crier and pay him x gold to update all vendor data of this town
    or
    B - If you are visiting a vendor and skim his offers

    If you prefer to visit just a handful of vendors you can check if one of them was recently offering a fitting item to take a look if it is still there and if you are in need you can instantly update the info at the town crier and skim the local offers of this town without the need to visit and check all vendors manually.

    Maybe you could highlight the vendors of your friends/guild mates, block vendors of avatars you don't like, delete vendors who are not offering interesting items to shorten the list and set a compass marker to a chosen vendor.
     
  9. Earl Atogrim von Draken

    Earl Atogrim von Draken Avatar

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    All in all I am still for an email poll offering the options pointed out here and other options.
    I can deal with pretty much every outcome anyway even if I prefer a couple of ideas over others. It's just a game. No need to get riled up I guess ^^
     
  10. greenerpastures

    greenerpastures Avatar

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    I think the general point trying to be made here is, to continue the restaurant analogy, is that the SotA restaurant is not very busy at the moment. Offering up a self-cook service (Lua) is great - some players will do neat things with it, including some things that the devs never would have time to do. That will be helpful, full stop.

    The concern is that it *feels* like a ton of critical core system improvements are being pointed towards the "the players will fix that with Lua, we devs don't need to worry about it!" bucket. The cynical side of me says that is a fabulous way to show "player engagement and empowerment", while really just not investing the money, time and resources to make critical changes.

    All of that Lua stuff is going to be in a side dining room, because new diners (potential players) largely aren't going to know and/or care about add ons and third party Lua websites; only a subset ever will know or care to find those things (just like only a small subset ever know, or care, about this forum or Discord). So a majority of new players will continue to enter the main dining room (SotA base game), get fed sub par food (quests and journal, hi!, just to start) and most will leave without even paying the check.

    And all the while there might be a side dining room with more delicious food (neat Lua addons) - but guess what - most people aren't going to ever see them. So this laser focus on Lua solving the world of SotA problems is just puzzling. Again, I am captain cynical so it feels to me like a great way to shove things that need to be fixed off on willing free labor, and maximize profit without investing properly in the game. YMMV.
     
  11. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    I share some of the same concerns, though I'm trying to look past LUA to "what's next" - the adoption of player-made content into the core game client. As I've said before, its evident to me that players probably know/understand better how these improvements should be done, as they have thousands of hours of gameplay experience and are in a better position to create something that is fit for purpose. It also saves dev time for other things that players can't help with / contribute to.

    But what I don't want to see is a situation in which I have to download a bunch of sporadically updated 3rd party crap to make the game function at a good quality of life level. Then you start getting mod conflicts, errors, things that break every update, and so on.
     
  12. greenerpastures

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    I hear you. But the gist of my post is that what you mention in your second sentence above, is what I fear you are going to see. Having a good questing/journal system working across the whole game (for just one example) just should not be left to players. Add ons are supposed to ENHANCE existing working systems to make them more attractive or add innovative "nice to have" features.

    They are not meant to fix systems that are left completely broken or unfinished. At least not if this game really wants new players.
     
  13. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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    I would prefer a new and improved questing system over a new vendor system. This is an RPG. The vendor system has it's issues, yes, definitely, but the questing system is an RPG core mechanism and badly needs an overhaul, while the vendor system is more or less working for the moment.

    Ninja edit: @Chris what about a email poll which overhaul should get priority?
     
  14. Spungwa

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    That only worked because there is demand and you limited supply. If there is demand, race to the bottom does not happen. Beetle carapace will not race to the bottom for example.

    If you had done the same thing to mission runners before tiericide and tried to bump the price of the non meta 4 items, it would not have worked. There was zero demand for them beyond the, what this game would call, salvage price. No amount of supply manipulation will change the price if the demand is zero.

    Items that race to the bottom means there is not enough demand for the supply. All the current mechanics just try to hide that over supply instead of fixing it by increasing the demand. Eve activily managed it's economy, it had a macro economist on the payroll for 5 years, ensuring that items with no demand got changed or mechanics were changed to make these items useful and therefore there be demand.

    Case in point damage control mod was changed, as no one ever used them and there worth was only what minerals you could get back by melting them. So they changed the damage control effect and now it is one of the first modules you add to any fit and then they became worth building. Before if you built them you lost money trying to sell them.


    Regards
    Spung
     
  15. Arkah EMPstrike

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    This is rampant in EvE online, which has likely the most successful in-game economy of any mmo.

    In fact, with out the regional market search, the traders that make a living simply buying (from the undercutters) and reselling.

    If an item is in demand, anyone selling at a loss will not be able to easily sustain themselves, and if tedious restocking makes people quit, then folks undercutting without profit will give up. In some cases savvy traders buy at these opportunities to keep competitors empty and resell those things on thier vendor.

    Thats a competitive economy. You can even search in RL because market search helps people know where the stuff they want to BUY is so they can BUY it. Doesnt even have to be global. Make it town wide. To claim a market search will ruin the economy because it will cause too much competition is just silly.
     
  16. Boris Mondragon

    Boris Mondragon Avatar

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    Brother; I am glad you touched on the EP 1 quest system and personally never bothered with it though think it can be an issue that makes several new players trying this ftp game leave right away.

    My simple solution is to streamline it. Get rid of the buggy/frustrating parts of each quest storyline and have only 10 simple quests per Path. Use the ones that feature the areas you want the new player to see, give them the lot deed and row/village home at the end.

    This streamlined EP1 quest system should take about 3 hours with the fancy armor/etc and the deed/lot may actually keep some of these quickly exiting players and help fill out POTs.

    Just a thought and alternative solution to a long standing problem. R/Boris
     
  17. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I feel like maybe the best "middle ground" approach might be to give POT owners a town crier-esque NPC that functions as vendor search for their POT only. NPC towns would continue to function as they are currently. Market towns would be searchable, but only from within that town. It would probably ding the people with prime spots in NPC towns a bit, but not as much as a game-wide global search would.

    Oops, I took too long to type my post. Beat me to it.
     
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  18. Sol Stormlin

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    Buyers dictate the market. Whether we have a vendor search or not, there are players who spend all of their time going from town to town buying and then reselling. A vendor search will make it easier for people to compete because more often then not, the reason those resellers do well is because they know WHERE to sell it. They know people are not going to run around doing what they do, so they sell in convenient locations. A vendor search will help people combat that.
     
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  19. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Just make it per town for every town. Those place anywhere lots were supposed to be a boon to traders i think
     
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  20. Earl Atogrim von Draken

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