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Shroud 2020 Vision

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Sol Stormlin

    Sol Stormlin Avatar

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    You can play this game and succeed without paying a dime.
     
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  2. CICI

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    1st off swg did show prices =) lol
     
  3. Vladamir Begemot

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    I just had an image flash before my eyes, and image of what this will look and function like.

    You get in, excited to find a nice Bronze Longsword with all the sweet stats. It loads. Judging by recent bank load times, you decide to go make a cup of coffee while you wait.

    You type in Bronze Lon and it filters them out for you, 150,000 bronze longswords. You look for filters. Str, Rend, they've got to be here somewhere.

    Nope. Ok you know you want it to be at least +15, so you can safely type Bronze Longsword +1 and skip past all the +1's down to the +10's and up. You do.

    You start mousing over them, one by one, starting in the +15's. Lots of low durability and failures. Thousands, maybe tens of thousands. Sort by price, that will work!

    Ok, back to mousing over them one by one, but ignore anything under 10k. Now they are out of order though, so +1's are scattered in amongst the +19's. Grrrr....

    Eventually you find one you like. It only took an hour, much better than running from vendor to vendor. But not exactly what we'd like. We complain for 6 years about how great it would be if they just add some filters in, but by 2026, we've given up and that's just how we search for things.
     
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  4. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Same thoughts: who will build all those story in game? Lum took it years to insert all those dialogues.
    If we would have another good one, besides Sannio (and he is also lvl designer!), like puuk before, I would say: no problem. Two people focused on quests works well.
    We saw it with the Outskirts and how fast really good story got into the game ... We will see :)
     
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  5. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    That's why we need a sophisticated filtering method. Not only for a Vendor search. Also for Quest and Crafting books ...
     
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  6. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    I really understand those concerns. I am also for fairness AND for good search engine.
    Yes: it would be very sad to destroy all effort so many people did for building their shops and their invested time!

    The question is: what kind of system do we want to bring in - how valuable should it be for this game and its longevity?

    Many complain(ed) about the destruction of the local economy.

    We have changed from one extreme:
    --> heavily loaded from (local!) bank to (local!) bank without the possibility of teleporting, without a pack horse or wagon
    to the other extreme:
    --> beam wherever you want!

    It was called "quality of life".

    I call it: player convenience.

    What about the quality of the game itself?

    We all know how the Internet (and Amazon, for example) works.

    Does this fit the whole game world? Do we have to have certain things "at any cost"?

    What about this:


    1. For TOWNS:
    Why can't the goods be viewed and filtered within a central location (EDIT: REVIVE the public Vendor!) within a town.
    You can see who is selling what and where for how much.
    If I want to buy it, I'll dash to the place and get it.

    2. Within the REGION (eg Perennial Coast) there could be such a search option in every CAPITAL.
    BUT NO PRICES are offered there for the search.
    -> THIS WILL FINALLY revive the CAPITALS!
    And it won't destroy the local economy :)

    3. Good transportation: I suppose, there is a given limit, what an Avatar can use BY TELEPORT as soon as Mounts and Wagons are in for transportation!

    NO Teleport with horses and wagons at a weight from about 250? And please, don't cry we can't reduce this. Just read, and think about:
    If a player wants to transport huge amounts of stuff, take a horse / wagon.
    The same time when this happens, I suppose to reduce (!) the amount (!) of items we find in loot, and raise (!) the worth of those goods. Instead of 20 bows from 10 enemies, worth of 500g make it 5 bows worth of 1000g. And for crafters: raise output for salvaging the same way, please.

    Well, what I am talking about is a fair and nice system which makes fun to play, not only for a few people who like to speculate ...

    1. It would give reason to visit Capitals of each region.
    2. It would help to find, what we are looking for. In towns we could find the concrete price.
    3. Mounts / Wagons would be a nice addition! --> And would give possibilities on the overworld: think about raids ...


    From my point of view, this would give more life to the overworld, to towns and a fair play for all crafters and the whole business :)

    @Chris, how about this? :)

    instead of this:
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  7. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Must be an nonattack then .
     
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  8. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    I think it referred most to your statement:
    Anyway: I like the expression "nonattack" :)
     
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  9. Arkah EMPstrike

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    This seems pretty exaggerated. But well use your 150,000 sword example.

    add the fact that you have to load in and out of towns, manually search 3000 vendors (if there were an average of 50 longswords only on the vendors that have longswords) lets say it takes 4 seconds to look at 1 vendor then move to the next because all 3000 of them are on row homes and just as a handicap, we’ll assume its all in the same town too. Given that, it’d take over 3 hours. THEN factor in not only are the +1 mixxed with the +9, they are also scattered over 3000 vendors. The tedium continues to climb. THEN, add the 30 minuite list loading and searching time you talked about getting coffee to and thats another half hour. That is legit how it works right now, but the 150,000 longswords over 3000 vendors is very exagerated.

    Still using that though, if it listed every item for sale it would take about 30 minutes to load 150,000 items.

    If, however it only found 400 bronze longswords for sale which is more realistic for today, it’d take 5 seconds.

    But as wildly more convenient that that your search is than the reality i laid out above, we’d be happy with just a list of the vendors that sell bronze longswords.

    You can make anything look inconvenient if you try. But even with that scenario, its 4x quicker with the search.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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  10. Arkah EMPstrike

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    Theres other things that are currently convenient like trade chat and folks who lay out thier vendors like Elrond does to make it easier to shop. But that means im literally going to elrond for all my gear and almost exclusivly using trade chat for other things.
     
  11. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    Agreed. Those advocating a town only search either dont realize how hosed the little guy i.e. out of the way towns would be or are purposefully pushing it knowing the more popular towns would still be getting all the love.
     
  12. ShurTugal

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    But it's not fair for everyone right now be it customer or the little seller just trying to make a profit but getting trampled by a select few who currently dominate things right now. If your advocating for maintaining the status quo (which it kinda sounds like you are) than your not trying to keep it fair for everyone.
     
  13. Steevodeevo

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    In my view a global market is a double edged sword, but in most games its fine. However in SOTA terms it seems counter to the games ethos - 0r what WAS the games ethos under LB when we aspired for Regional Markets. In themselves Regional markets don't seem a big deal, but with bandits, caravans, regional specialities it would be cool. Also it doesn't help the new starter crafter or small scale crafter if he or she can no longer sell there wares locally at a slight premium based on local convenience for the buyer who would rather pay a bit of a mark up than travel around. If however you can buy but have to go to collect the item from where it was listed, then this wouldn't be an issue.. BUT I guarantee many SOTA players will rage about having to go and collect stuff they bought in a global interface and demand more QOL.

    If aspirations for the regional economy are dead and buried it probably doesn't matter much (except to small scale crafters) but if it is dead and buried it is a shame as I was really looking forward to the revival of the potential of this feature, even since they took down the regional gates for QOL. It is just another small step towards a generic product IMO.

    Black Desert Online and the new Ashes of Creation, if it ever materialises, do or will have regional economies and all the trimmings, and these aspects are or look fun..
     
  14. Boris Mondragon

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    Brother it gets better. You do find that elusive Bronze Longsword or in my case 2 of them since I dual wield and then get buyers remorse since they wear out quickly in my case. Apply same concept for armor.

    Let’s face it, this is and always be a dog eat dog world when it comes to crafting and selling either you figured out what sells or watch your vendor take constant naps.

    I agree with @Restless that we do not have an end game at least what I consider one. That would entail control of an area vía PvP with extra resources or drops. This is p2W for many with the discretionary funds to buy what they want in order to have a better experience. As far as being poor, I call bullshit on that one. Anyone can make all the gold they want from farming mats that are needed, price them right and they will sell. Finally, we have RMT (oh no us pariahs of SOTA). Yes I am one that will sell igg as Catnip has not put anything for me to buy worthwhile. I already bought my City Water Lot and Pirate galleon. I use what I need, farm what I want and buy from those crafters I trust.

    Hopefully @Chris is steering this in the right direction with a clear vision. I will be here to see the outcome with my Teflon suit on and it’s flame retardant by the way. This is as diplomatic as this pirate gets. (Steps down from the soapbox).

    R/Boris/El Pirata/What You See Is What You Get.
     
  15. Vladamir Begemot

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    There was a time when banks loaded super quickly. Same with mail. Never really with vendors. Sometime this last year the time went up, I think they moved to lesser hardware. I have a guy with nothing in his bank and it still takes 5+ seconds to load. I'll time it next time and report back.

    Anyway, my point was two fold. One, we might as well be arguing about what color they are going to paint the moon. And two, if they actually do go for it, and leave out real filters after I just wrote that, then we can all shake our heads and say "are you kidding, Vlad even pointed it out two years ago, why didn't you put in some real filters?"

    And three, if they do put in filters, then why won't they do it in any of the other windows?

    UI design is the worst aspect of the game. To think they are going to get it right this time is a pipe dream, I think. They've pretty much said it's all on us, so figure out how to do it with Lua or expect what I wrote.
     
  16. Elrond

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    Gonna copy paste this here from one of Chris Streams ( Thx Jiirc )


    1) He likes vendor towns and would prefer they don't go away.
    2) if it is an auction style house, he sees it as for public vendors only. So all the vendors would be linked together. with an extra charge for private vendors. There would be a cost for this function. (His pitch for it was this idea.)
    3) He likes the idea of global search for private vendors (maybe all vendors), but you'd have to walk to the town to buy something. (He likes this idea ans some tech was added recently that could make this happen.)
    4) Nothing stated about what information would be displayed in search results.
    5) He talks a bunch about global search issues (sheer number of items on vendors, number of transactions, different search methods and issues, etc.)
    6) He mentions that prices are proably to be included in the search results. (mentioned in passing, so they may or may not be included)

    @Chris

    1. An extra charge for private vendors to make goods visible on the public search- not more then 20g -50g max per stack ( could turn out to be the biggest gold sink we have ingame as of yet ) .
    2. Add some search filter for crafted gear ( based on price , based on + lvl , based on magic school, show 50, show 100, show 500 )
    3. Allow buy orders to be searchable as well . They might be the only thing preventing a market collapse in the initial release . So if someone looks for beetles to buy ...show the sell orders and the buy orders on the bottom ( least for raw materials )
    4.If you gonna do it , do it all the way ,no half measures . Allow players to see location and price , without price listing its gonna turn into a nightmare for buyers and sellers ... buyers gonna have to visit all locations listed to make sure they get the best offer, sellers gonna have to do the same to make sure they present the best offer.

    The way i see this working - Player can access a public vendor or a town crier in POTS ( or make a new NPC for POTS where players can run searches ) , run a search for what they need , once they find it they teleport to that pot and the listing becomes available for purchase ...item purchased goes to bank or in the mail.

    If you plan to develop some sort of regional trade make it a regional search if not make it global.



    On the issue of POTS

    As a pot owner i can tell you its alot of work and effort to create an established market town , finding people , finding them locations, settling disputes , making sure everything runs smoothly overall ... and for all our efforts we dont get much out of it . My reccomandation to adress this is, when/if you institute a global search also institute a 1% fee from all sales that take place in that pot to go to the pot owner. If the sale takes place in an npc town its a gold sink . Hope youll give it some thought ...will not only add value to owning a POT but also encourage owners to develop and populate them .
     
  17. Girlsname

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    so the buyer pays an extra 1% fee when buying something in the pot? That is if they use the search? Or just a flat fee if I walk into your pot and buy an item?

    if it’s a different way and the pot owner has a item listed for millions you could just alt spam buy them = exploit

    Also if searching for items and I find one I want why pay a 1% fee when I could just run there and buy it or use a zone to teleport?


    :thinking:
     
  18. Elrond

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    Seller pays the fee . If i list 1 beetle for 1800g when it sells 1% of the 1800 gold (18g) goes to the owner of the pot where the sale took place . ..or if its an npc town goes out of the economy ( gold sink ).
     
  19. Sentinel2

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    That's one of the reasons I make some cheap weapons and armor for new players. I figure they need to start somewhere.
     
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  20. greenerpastures

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    Bzzt - no; so many edge cases and problems this auto gold sink to a POT owner. You are, today, free to charge your residents for all of the work you do and the land they take up in your POT.