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Shroud 2020 Vision

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Why so complicated?

    1. Visit the Public Town Vendor could show items in THIS town - with prices.
    2. Visit the Public Vendor in the capital of a region (Ardoris, Aerie, Resolute for example) could provide a search engine for all items in THIS region (Perennial Coast in Ardoris, Longfall in Aerie, South Paladis in Resolute ...) - without prices.
    Local economy saved. Captials would be more frequented - again ...
     
  2. DavidDC

    DavidDC The New Guy Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Problem is price are already tanked down. When you sell an artifact that can take up to a week or more to get that exact artifact, and you sell it for less than 10k gold (which is about 20 minute of game play) and you want to introduce a global search that will reduce down that price again causae everyone will fight for selling their stuff at lowest, very, very bad idea.

    Who is going to treasure hunt after that? Its not worth it.
    Who is gonna farm regs to sell when you got 50 competitor doing the same thing and fighting each other to put the price at lowest? You will see the numbers of farmers go down pretty fast.
    Those of you that have regular clients, you can forget them, they will go where the price is low. And those of you who have no client, dont think it will be more benefice for you, the benefice will be grinding monster for gold cause its the only way you will get enough to buy that house of your dream since all item will worth **** and price will be so low that farming monster get you more gold.

    And thats supose to be good for economy? Do some research on google, check game who have introduced this kind of practice, did it benefice them? Totally not, all those game are down or forgotten cause of that EXACT reason. Im totally against that idea and will always be.

    I prone walking around to find stuff, the journey is the adventure, not standing in a town clicking buttons.
     
  3. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    You get 1 mail every 24h or once a week with the 1% tax .....sure would take some work to code and its more of an idea now for Chris to ponder on ..weather POT s should provide a gain to their owners or just be for deco .

    Sure ..and i was asking for a qol feature to make the procces automated.

    I dont expect this to be demanded by players or even town owners , but its worth some thought..seen it implemented in other games dont see why it wouldnt work here as well . Besides Land ,Pot Owners donate alot of their time to improve the quality of life of their residents we get nothing in return and were expected to improve our towns from our own pockets ...just saying...maybe those who live there should contribute to the town development also ...thats where the 1% fee from sales comes in.
     
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  4. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    95 % of the buying /selling takes place in the central brittany region ..those who dont live in that region would be at great disadvantage as players would be more likely to visit only 1 region . So not sure about saving local economies .

    If there is too much of something ..its up to Chris to find a way to make that item sellable , worth player time to harvest/collect /loot. Without a global view well never know just how bad or how good our economy really is... right now its all just smoke and mirrors ...ill sell this for x amount because you have no way of knowing if someone else sells it cheaper...so the way i see it we keep dreaming the dream or we try to make it real.
     
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  5. greenerpastures

    greenerpastures Avatar

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    It sounds more like you would like a way to force revenue to you, the POT owner. As a former POT owner, could I have the option to turn off that tax, and compete against you to say, "I take care of this town, but I'm not going to charge you like the other guys"? I did donate a lot, lot of time decorating and maintaining my POT - and never wanted to charge for it. If you want to charge your residents, go do it, but suggesting to force every POT owner to get into a tax racket because you want a cut, no thanks.
     
  6. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Im not forcing anyone to do anything .
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  7. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Why is this a disadvantage?
    If I am home in the Perennial Coast and look in Ardoris for, let's say 100 Beetle Carapace and find them in Soltown, I can choose to buy them - OR - visiting Brittany Public Vendor to scan the Regalis region.
    I don't have to. Same with people living in the Regalis Region: If they find 100 Beetle Carapace in Crafters Town, they can enter and check the price. If they like it, they buy it. If not, they have the opportunity to teleport to Ardoris and check the Public Vendor for the Perennial Trail region :)
    It's like checking Internet and looking for something in my town (new graphic card in a technic store). I find it and am happy.
    If not, I can check further locations (takes more time, but I could) ...
    To find is primary, price is secondary ...

    I think this is better for the whole economy (also for POT owner).
     
  8. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    That's the reason, I made my suggestion above your comment, @devicult :)
    To have a possibility to find an item in a region fast(er) [artefacts, whatever]
    But not to see all prices at the same time - to honor the time and effort of people who invested time and effort ...
     
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  9. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    I have nothing against search being regional but i think it has to add more purpose then just...lets make it regional search so people teleport 4 times to search instead of 1 time to run a search....
     
  10. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

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    There's way more variables that are driving the price than that. It doesnt take long to farm any random artifact. You put that artifact up for sale because you dont want it, if its a very common one, lots of people might have it for sale, so you will be competing with a bigger supply. If there is no DEMAND for that particular artifact, the price will drop until folks consider it a good price for essence.

    If that artifact IS in demand, THATS when the guy looking for 1 specific artifact comes along and buys it for whatever he finds it for that he's willing to pay. If he has several sources to buy it from, he'll buy the cheapest one. If the price drops lower than what folks feel its worth, sicne its in demand, other people who know its in demand and want to profit off of you will buy it from you to resell at a higher price. If YOU dont like how low the price has got, and see it flying off the shelves at those low prices, you can keep yours at a higher price and it will sell as the cheaper supply is exhausted. If the cheaper supply doesnt get exhausted, then it's either not that cheap or not in demand.
     
  11. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    @Elrond you better come up with better filters than the +#. You know better than most that that number tells you nothing. It was literally the shower epiphany of how to make the worst possible vendor search, so I'm really surprised that was your example.

    Let me stress this very much, if YOU don't design them a good filter system, they will just slap on the + and no one will ever be able to find anything. This is because they have no idea what real players would search for, and in your post you did not in any way clue them in.

    And yeah, it's got to be you, you're the one who he listens to on crafting. I'm not spending another two weeks on designing stuff for them and not even hearing a reply.

    I forsee horrible failure unless you take the time to make them a very detailed list and document about how search should work.
     
  12. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    To prevent a fast market monopoly?
    And maybe so as not to let the marketplaces of the many cities go extinct?
     
  13. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    As a long time resident of someone else's POT (Rinzai, owned by Griffler) it would have been nice to have a way to direct some revenue his way. Not specifically vendor sales revenue, but for example, taxed deeds whose tax money just goes into a black hole would have been a sensible starting point to redirect some funds toward the governer, to fund future town upgrades. Our workaround was a donation box on Griffler's porch where we could just put cotos in, which was not really that much hassle and it was voluntary.

    For market town owners, getting a cut of local commerce is something that I wouldn't necessarily be against, provided that the rate was adjustable by individual governors or could be completely disabled. If you wanted to be in the hottest, most central, hopping market town, you'd have to pay a bit. Nothing wrong with that. And you can already do that, if you want (charge residents to live/sell in your town) there's just no automatic way to do so. I don't think it should be a forced, global, always-on feature though, and even as an optional feature, I think in terms of priority it would go pretty far down the list, there are far more pressing issues in the game, indeed, far more pressing issues with the vendor system before I think we need to look into this level of governer-profits.

    I know that opposition to this sort of thinking in the past stemmed from the "pay to win" camp, who cited the example of 'paying RL money to own a town, and earning in game revenue from it'. Because there's nothing to stipulate what the governer does with that money if it just gets delivered as a lump sum to his mail. If we were to add some sort of methodology like this, I'd like to see funds go into some sort of escrow that could only be used for town upgrades or town-related unlocks, which could offer a whole new progression system to player towns.
     
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  14. Gageman

    Gageman Avatar

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    The laws of economics have a balance in place for just that type of thing. This is a RL principle as well as in game. Please forgive the next several minutes of "Man-Splaning".

    So the commodity in question, lets call it Silver ore, sells for 50g and someone undercuts that to 45 then 40, etc. Well, these items require a workforce to "Mine", so at some point the miners are going to realize the "Opportunity Cost" of mining silver ore @ 30G per unit is Gold Ore which is selling for 50G. The miners will stop mining silver and start mining gold, or Iron or Maple wood, or whatever. A global auction house would not ruin the pricing , but in fact make it much more accurate and items would find their "True" value. Yes, speculators can make a small but tidy profit through arbitrage, but the market will make those lowballers stop lowballing either because they realize they can make more profit at the limits of the market, or that they are allowing themselves to become slave labor. The only ones who truly suffer are the "Landed Gentry", the people who landrushed the best vendor spots and are reaping HUGE profits from the backs of the common and NEW players, who dont and wont ever have the opportunity to claim those choice spots. It really is a "Pay to Win " situation . A global auction house with prices listed gives EVERYONE the chance to compete and profit.
     
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  15. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    I think we need to examine why we want a search function. The most common answer seems to be, to cut down on wasted time clicking and loading hundreds of vendors only to find they don't have what they want, to eliminate the tedium of going from town to town, load screen by load screen, to try and find someone selling what you're looking for.

    I agree if we're going to do this, it needs to be fit for the above purpose. Obscuring pricing, limiting it to a single scene or region, etc. is just hampering the purpose for which a search is desired in the first place. It doesn't really help me to know that Bob in Bob's Town is selling silver ore (no price) because I'll have to travel all the way there, and oh look, its drastically overpriced, or worse, Bob's listed a single ore for a million gold just to have his name show up in the search. Next thing you know you have vendors full of single high demand items being used as bait to get people to waste their time coming to your vendor. This is why we need to see prices and quantities, otherwise we may as well not even have a search function at all, because its purpose - finding somewhere to go to buy what you want - would not be being fulfilled.

    As Elrond's pointed out, separating this into region and effectively making the player repeat their search activity multiple times for no real reason does not add any value to it, it just adds a tedium layer that diminishes the search function's purpose. Also as pointed out, the majority of the market towns are clustered in one area, so if your objective was to find something with the least amount of hassle, you'd start there, and never bother with the other regions at all. Regionalising in this way is actually detrimental to players not in the core shopping district, a global option would be more even handed, more fair, and could perhaps attract shoppers out to the periphery where they'd never have any reason to go otherwise.
     
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  16. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    I think making a search filter with every available masterwork for gear can be a real pain .. one way to do it is to allow items searchable by seller also ..considering the amount of craftable armor types though ...will require some thought ...
     
  17. Dhanas

    Dhanas Avatar

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    As i already stated before, this is the easier solution and what people is asking for, not sure why make all those trouble around something so easy.

    This is what we already have and what people would like to preserve: regional economy, it means also that some regions are better than others.
    Adding an NPC like town crier in every POT that allow you to search for items in that town ( and not for prices) is just something that improve player experinece mostly for new players. I have to be honest, my experience as a shopper is to look the first 10 shops in every city, if i can't find what i am looking for i just give up and use trade channel, i am not going in any case to look for all the shops, also cause most of them have the same thing listed and many aren't restocked, if i could have a search i am sure i would buy also from those vendors at the end of the cities
     
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  18. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Please do give it some thought. I give this about a 5% chance of being useful for gear if it just gets slapped together.

    Raw materials is pretty easy, but the gear interface has the potential to be a total fail.
     
  19. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    I know . The things is we have so many items that need to be assigned to a category to make a decent search ....like table assigned to furniture...or streetlamp to outside deco so on....or we could leave everything just searchable by name like small desk with some basic filtering ( price range ) or best option i think ...Chris can open up vendor search to lua wait for players with mad skills to create a decent interface, and when it looks good implement it ingame.
     
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  20. Vladamir Begemot

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    That stuff is already filtered in the store, hopefully they will take the time to apply it to crafting. Furniture shouldn't be a disaster, it's pretty straightforward.

    I'm talking gear. That can as easily be a total waste of time as very helpful.