1. We have a QA initiative where we work with the community more closely than ever to get your bug reports into the hands of the developers. Please use this forum for LIVE Server bug reporting. Do follow the format below, because it will help us out greatly in responding. If you do not, it's possible your bug report will be misinterpreted, or worse, lost!

    Read BEFORE submitting your first bug: Reporting Bugsā€¦ QA 101 Document
    • Search for your bug before posting in order to avoid duplicate reports.
    • Only reply to an existing thread if you have additional information for the reported bug. ALL extraneous commentary will be deleted to avoid cluttering the reports.
    • Keep your bug report short and factual.
    • There is no need to submit crash logs. Crash data we require is automatically logged.
    Bug Report Template
    1. Title:
    2. Reproduction Rate:
    3. Blocker?
    4. Details:
    5. Steps to Reproduce:
    6. User Specs:
    To get started, use /bug in-game (/devbug if on QA) to auto-create this template. It will even auto-fill some of the required information and open the browser for you. Then take the information that was just saved to your system's clipboard and paste it into a new QA forum post. Thank you bug hunters!
Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Some quick end of release feedback

Discussion in 'Release 35 Feedback Forum' started by Themo Lock, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    4,950
    Likes Received:
    17,895
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia

    Yay!

    -Optimization: Allot has been achieved and my game is starting to run smoothly again :)

    -Skills: Many of the skill trees have been fleshed out nicely and continue to do so, it is all starting to fit together nicely.

    -Community: The people here are great and provide the sense of community that i really missed from the early era of online gaming. In all honesty this and the fact that i like and care about many of the developers and players on a personal level is the only reason i am here during pre release.

    -Open development process: I love that we get to see what devs are working on and so much behind the scenes information. I have been a part of many pre release and early access titles and have never seen anything like it.

    Booo!
    -Decay as a gating system: Skills should have taken longer to raise, scaled harsher with both level and total exp spent in skills instead of implementing the most punishing and disheartening gating system in the history of gaming other than perma death. Actually i think i would prefer perma death.

    -COTO and real money transactions: Hate that COTO exist at all but understand the need for income. What i don't understand or approve of is their tie to both combat and crafting. As it stands you can buy exp, housing, crafting mats, gear, the best decorations and i strongly suspect soon you will be able to pay to clear skill decay. All with a credit card. The reason this irritates me constantly to edge of rage quitting is twofold... Firstly poor people should not have to be poor avatars, it is a virtual world and everybody should have the same chance to excel or fail at all aspects of the game. Right now that is not the case and if you try to argue otherwise you are completely delusional. Secondly, early on in the project when i looked into this game i saw a crowdfunded project with a promise of no subscriptions. With this in mind i contributed a ridiculous sum of money that i can not afford to try and help it succeed under the impression that i would not need to constantly pay to continue playing. Turns out that if i want to optimize my avatars capabilities (or even close to it) i will need to regularly pay more money.

    -Lack of focus on fun: Too many mechanics and features to punish, hinder and handicap with too little thought and/or understanding of how this affects peoples enjoyment and motivation to play. People don't want to take risks because the costs are high (and they will get much much higher) and as a result the bulk of people time is mindlessly trying to farm gold in the safest way possible so they can pay rent, ransom, reagent costs and replace gear that takes months to craft.
     
    Hermetic, Duke Albert, Acred and 22 others like this.
  2. Nadomir

    Nadomir Avatar

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    781
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hannover, Germany
    Did I miss something? How can you get XP for COTO?

    Beside that and the fact, that I don't see the decay-system as that bad, I generally agree with your points.
     
  3. Insinious FizzleThorpe

    Insinious FizzleThorpe Avatar

    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    18
    150% why I am only following for the slightest bit of chance that something amazing happens, and not actively playing anymore. Entire reason I let my Account go.. @Themo Lock you have been a great assist to the community as a whole from guides to bug squashes.. You are truly appreciated.

    Well once you get 20+ gms and 5 or more of those are at 170+ skill let me know how awesome you fill the decay system is..
     
    Leelu and Dariog like this.
  4. Nadomir

    Nadomir Avatar

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    781
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hannover, Germany
    Isn't that the point of the whole idea? That at some point you cannot get any better? And since when "not that bad" means "aweseome"? Don't get me wrong. I don't wont to punish anyone for mastering alot of skills and when the current system feels like that, I agree there seems to be a problem. But that doesn't automatically mean the whole system is crap.
     
  5. Magnus Zarwaddim

    Magnus Zarwaddim Avatar

    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Well written and cogent. It's too bad the trolls (especially on Reddit ) fail to see that community and the open development process EDIT (can no longer use the word that is also a name that rhymes with rump), er, outweighs (man that's more letters than the word that is also a name that ryhmes with rump) all complaints that the game isn't finished yet and that there isn't single player yet and that THEIR own personal wishes for the game have not been visualized yet. Yet, people! YET. That connotes something the trolls cannot grasp because they are so full of self-loathing wishful thinking.

    </end rant>

    On decay: there is no way you would like perma-death more than decay. Stop lying! :) If not, lets prove it!!! Devs, kill @Themo Lock, repeatedly. Let's report back in a month. :) JKJKJK!!! It's too late for the uber powerful to be reigned in and this seems like the only viable compromise. I am sure there are others. I guess they could create a storyline that sort of weakens players, but that would have to apply across the board to be fair (don't call it wipe!).

    On COTO's: It's tough to argue for/against when we know they use it to bring in money to the game, which they are using to develop the game. I argue against COTO's for weapon repairs indefinitely as I believe we need items to eventually be destroyed in order to have a true player-run economy. I'm also befuddled how 1 COTO is like 3,500g toward taxes for lots, but then COTO's are being sold on the market by players for ~1,500g. There is a disconnect there for sure. And, yes, the fact that it's a subscriptionless game that semi-requires you to spend roughly $20 / month to buy COTO's (assuming you need/use 4 Obsidian potions a week). Maybe they should consider making Obsidian Potions last more than the 7-Earth days AND consider making them drop their equivalent coins more? This is a tough one to work out.

    On fun: I think this might be directly related to that "20%" left to have a more polished game. I agree we need more fun. I think group activities like sieges are a good start, but obviously they have a bit more to go here to reach a more enjoyable fun factor for all.

    And for those that fail to grasp the humorous sarcasm in my reply, apologies for your being unable to grasp the humorous sarcasm in my reply. :)
     
  6. Magnus Zarwaddim

    Magnus Zarwaddim Avatar

    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I can see that people in that situation would argue against Decay, but I thought the entire purpose of Decay was to prevent or limit the amount of people who have 20+ GM's with 5 or more that are at 170+ skill. Or am I wrong?

    I really thought that the fact that Decay was not working since R34 was sort of a "bug" in the sense that they system had been rushed and not completed yet. So, to my thinking, there was a restriction in the game that was not ready for R34 persistence that everyone got to benefit from.

    If this is the case, and if everyone knew that Decay was not ready for R34, then I fail to see the complaint. I am not saying I don't understand your pain, but I think this was a known thing that got delayed and that we all took advantage of. It's put us in this space where a small percentage of the population is uber-powerful. And for the long-term prospects of the game something has to be done.

    And the alternative would have been a skill cap, which would have prevented people from having 20+ GM's with 5 or more that are at 170+ skill.
     
  7. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    4,950
    Likes Received:
    17,895
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    Perma death games are actually really fun heh

    The bullet point was "COTO and real money transactions", not just Coto. People sell power leveling and leveled up accounts.

    Decay is only implemented at a tiny fraction of its intended rate and it will not stop people maxing every skill, it will just discourage adventurous behavior.
     
  8. Magnus Zarwaddim

    Magnus Zarwaddim Avatar

    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Hmm, I can see that point. I thought decay sort of scaled, meaning the more XP you put into skills, the more likely that it would cost you more across the board. I suspect this will be worked on for quite a while until either a) it's decently balanced for the health of the game or b) the world ends. :)
     
    Lord Ravnos likes this.
  9. Nadomir

    Nadomir Avatar

    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    781
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hannover, Germany
    See, that's the part I did miss... Yes, that is indeed a bad thing... in any game I know... not just here.
     
  10. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    4,950
    Likes Received:
    17,895
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    It does yes, but the stronger you get the less you die and the faster you gain exp. I die once every 2 months if i make a mistake and i am nowhere near maxed out. Meanwhile people exploring and learning decay and the impact of having progress go backwards is severe. It's ragequit severe as we are already seeing and it only caps at 4 hours worth of decay at this point. We get things like "hey look a tightrope, want to try and cross it? no" or "anybody want to go and try to kill a dragon? no fricken way" which is a real shame. Combine that with the fact that every now and then your avatar will just die for no reason due to a bug or hitching and you get angry gamers with good reason for being angry.
     
    Duke Albert and Leelu like this.
  11. Themo Lock

    Themo Lock Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    4,950
    Likes Received:
    17,895
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't like to try and convince other people what to like or dislike, this is just what i like and dislike. Also can we get a revoke on the auto edit of the word trump? it's part of the English language and not just the name of an orange man-child.
     
    Acred, Lace, Leelu and 1 other person like this.
  12. Snazz

    Snazz Avatar

    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SK / BKK
    When you need almost half a billion XP for L150, decay will be huge (x3 skill) One billion for 8x

    At GM level, it's quite trivial unless you have all passives/innates finished
     
    Themo Lock likes this.
  13. Gadfrey Zukes

    Gadfrey Zukes Avatar

    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    305
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ardoris

    i like the punishing and hindering. Now its starting to get real. I don't want open pvp, but I like the risk and the moments when I get chased from a scene by unexpectedly aggressive foes. It forces me to re-evaluate my skill vs scene and leads me elsewhere to get better. without the devay, death has little meaning.

    However, I'd love to see the old uo system instead...where your body drops with all your gear on it and starts to decay while u run around in ghost form looking for a spirit talker or healer to raise u from the dead, then race back to town (in your loin cloth) to a bank to grab your backup gear, get dressed, then race back to the scene to loot all your good stuff from your corpse before it vanishes forever....now that was real !
     
  14. Aldo

    Aldo Avatar

    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    3,336
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    OK, perhaps there is something about decay I do not understand. What I think I understand is that you lose from your experience pool, not experience points that have already been allocated to your skills. Am I wrong? I have a sneaking suspicion that I am. Are you saying that the experience you lose is drawn from your skill itself, and that since each unit of skill at these high levels is composed of lots and lots of experience points which can be lost?
     
  15. Snazz

    Snazz Avatar

    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SK / BKK
    @Aldo The amount is based off your total used xp in all trees x hours since last death. Cap is 12 hours as of tmrw.

    So it will always be getting bigger. If you don't have enough in your unconsumed xp pool to cover the amount, then it is subtracted from xp invested into skills
     
    Gadfrey Zukes and Aldo like this.
  16. Aldo

    Aldo Avatar

    Messages:
    2,077
    Likes Received:
    3,336
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Hoping I don't digress from OP too much. So I looked at my exp pool a minute ago and it was 102,000. I have been fighting continuously in 4 and 5 skull areas for weeks without a death. I am training 3 skills at the moment in the 80 to 90 area, thus the low exp pool. So I killed myself on purpose. Afterwards, my exp pool was 94,000. I am assuming by what you have said that I lost 8000 exp points from my pool and an unknown much larger number of points from existing skills. Not knowing how many points are allocated to those skills and how much was removed is disturbing. Sigh...
     
  17. Snazz

    Snazz Avatar

    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SK / BKK
    No, if you lost 8k then that's your current 4 hour decay amount.

    You would have to be under that amount in your xp pool to decay skills

    R36 your current max decay will be 24k

    3k for repeat deaths in under 60 min
     
    Aldo likes this.
  18. Lace

    Lace Avatar

    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    5,051
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Florida
    I pay so much to merchants those bitches need to hire a 2nd and 3rd shift and not go to bed!

    It was great to go out with a pick up group do a control point, or try some dragons or phoenix, now we will get the folks that inspect your gear and kick you from group like every other MMO cause you might get them killed based on their perception. No incentive to take risk, cause the risk takers only want those that reduce the risk, not teach. While I believe there should be risk and loss, I am not sure the game is built to allow teaching new folks with all the death things. Sure after a few it is moot, but my question is how many will be willing to teach mechanics when they are losing xp in doing so ... I am a bit concerned about this, but patiently waiting to see the end result.

    MY 2 cents
     
    Duke Albert and Themo Lock like this.
  19. Snazz

    Snazz Avatar

    Messages:
    650
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    SK / BKK
    @Lace That's what a solid friends list is for. This game certainly has a higher % of mature players too, which is always a good thing.

    Thanks for the good feedback everyone