Specialisations

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Superbitsandbob, Aug 18, 2020.

  1. Superbitsandbob

    Superbitsandbob Avatar

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    Has there ever been any chat on streams about changes to specialisations?

    In an open system like we have it seems a very restrictive mechanic, maybe purposefully so, but I am not sure it has the desired restrictive effect.

    The deck system allows us to experiment to our hearts content but I find I just end up butting up against the spec system which frustrates the deck building process.

    I was wondering if 100% XP return on unlearning specs would help soften the blow or maybe the ability to have more spec skills levelled but only 2 active at a time. Maybe once a month you can do a free 100% unlearn of your specs and try something else.
     
  2. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    This :
    would get my vote !
     
  3. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Well, that wouldn't really be specializing, then. But I hear you. I think the specs should go away, and the "effects" they give should just be part of the regular skill that becomes active when you reach GM. Start them off at about the equivalent of having the spec at about 50 (since there is no more spec to level to increase the strength, and most people realistically aren't going to go past 140 or so on a skill, so there's some room to improve without significantly weakening the effects) and scale up from there.
     
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  4. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    That is the point to spec. you can not spec and go any route, spec adds additional abilities to the schools if you decide you want to be more focused but its not required. Id like to see and expand on the spec itself with abilities/skills only for spec as an option. there was discussions in a stream not long ago on a perk system in the future :)
     
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  5. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I kinda also think that Strategy trees (minus taming and bard) shouldn't have gotten specs. Or, that you got one Strategy spec, and either one Magic and one Combat or two Magic specs. As much as I like the tactics spec, like most, I took it for one specific effect on one skill.
     
  6. Kain Darkmoor

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    Specializations ended up being a pretty big bust IMO. They are wildly imbalanced between specs. How many fire specialists are out there compared to things like water/moon/sun?

    The bonuses were created in a span of like a week around launch time and feel like they haven't been given much of a thought since then.
     
  7. Superbitsandbob

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    You could argue that anything beyond 1 spec is not specialisation. I'm certainly not advocating for loads but when you have 2 already 3-4 doesn't really seem a stretch considering the amount of skill trees. I think it's the cost of respeccing more than anything that is the issue.
     
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  8. kaeshiva

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    I too find the specializations quite restrictive and it discourages experimentation by putting up a pay wall for unlearning/relearning.
    Many games offer multiple build "slots" where you can save different configurations and change them by visiting a town / doing some sort of nominal cash sink.
    This really helps MMOs with low or dwindling populations form effective groups to tackle content instead of everyone standing around because 'need a healer' or 'need a tank'. Our skill system limits this particular pain somewhat, of course, but you still often see things stymied if you don't have someone who can 'xyz'.

    I think if someone wants to dump the experience to level a whole other specialization, there's no reason not to allow this, as long as you can only have two 'active' at a time. It isn't changing anything from a balance perspective just allowing people to switch when they want to do something different. I think you'd find this adds a whole lot of 'lateral progression' that might make experience meaningful again for the sake of versatility.
     
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  9. devilronin

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    the 3 strat and 2 armor specs are meh(offhand attack active should be changed to a passive chance to attack with the offhand), the 1:1:1 method would be great, im blades and bard, even though i dont like coups overhead... stab?... atleast its not rogues assassinate from ffderpstain
     
  10. AzazelReborn

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    If the developers was to give us the ability to have more than 2 Specs, more changes will have to be introduced to the game. Currently we only have the combat bar with offer us 10 slots, 20 if you count the non-combat bar (But certain combat skills can only work in there).

    So my point is we will need to expand this or give us the ability to have as many combat skills active at any time. Imagine you have 3 or 4 Specs, you would want to use as much skills with your Spec as you needed and I do not think 10 slots is enough for that. At the moment its restrictive with more Spec it would just not work.
     
  11. Lazlo

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    I like the specializations for the most part, but anything that you're forced to unlearn if you want to try something else should be 100% unlearn imo.
     
  12. Violet Ronso

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    If specs were set to 1 Tactics and then 2 for Magic/Physical trees, no rework is needed, learn the deck system, and implement things correctly. One build I used used skills from Bludgeon, Heavy Armor, Water Magic, Tactics, all in 2 decks that I could easily quick-swap. Had I gotten the privilege of using 4 specs, I would not have needed more space, I would simply have been able to spec in all 4 trees instead of trying to figure out which 2 I wanted.

    To be honest, I love what Specializations offered in terms of bonuses to skills, but I would rather see the spec system gone entirely, and have these bonuses given out as quest rewards from the master trainers as upgrades to the skills.
     
  13. Barugon

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    Three specializations would be pretty sweet. It's not like they do all that much anyway.
     
  14. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

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    For what specific reason is a 3rd specialization needed?
     
  15. Time Lord

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  16. Barugon

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    For fun?
     
  17. Violet Ronso

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    In the same way what specific reason did we require Specializations in a classless sandbox game? A third specialization IMO opens up way more combinations, and gives the opportunity to create some really FUN and interesting decks. The advantages Spec give can really generate a lot of fun, but limited to 2 when there are 21 or so skill trees makes it a very limiting thing considering the openness the game wants to promote. That is a reason to add a third one. Or like I said, get rid of them, and create quests given by the master trainers, that can be given when you reach GM in a skill or something, to unlock the specialization bonus instead. This creates 200 or so quests and allows to UNLOCK content through them, which can add even more fun this way.
     
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  18. Gyzarus

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    The spec doesn't stop you from trying anything, it's the play style and knowledge that matters your out put, the game is just providing the tools, we the tool user is up to us on how to use them. This makes a big difference in the combat we are talking here, it's like everyone can cook but not everyone is a good cook
     
  19. devilronin

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    i use bard and tame specs, theyre more important than all the rest, any additional specs i want/need wouldnt hurt.
    or remove specs and add the bonuses to the gm+ skill levels
     
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  20. Aetrion

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    I think specializations are a good idea, but not very well implemented.

    I like the idea of being able to specialize your character. A roleplaying game just lacks depth when you can't make your character better at any given thing than another character. If everyone can do everything and their role is purely determined by the clothes they are wearing on that given day it cheapens the whole idea of building a character. You're no longer building anything, you're just grinding away for some kind of bland amorphous power. It forces conformity on a genre that should be about expression. Having some kind of system that allows people that want to be a specialist to actually be one is good. It's not like you need specs to be viable with any given skill in this game, you just need specs to be at the very top end. It's silly to want to be the absolute best at everything.

    The implementation is somewhat lacking however. Having two specializations should allow you to create a character that combines two of the skills in the game, and thereby give us a huge variety of dual specialist characters. In reality people don't spec for a combination of two skills, they spec for one skill, and then pick a second specialization to support that skill. The fact that weapons exclude each other and attunement gear excludes other attunements makes characters that are a true dual spec ineffective. Instead you pick one skill, optimize your gear for that skill, and then pick whatever second spec optimizes that skill even further. Having specializations in Strategy trees further increases this issue, since those trees already specifically exist to give your character archetypal bonuses. They don't encourage creative combinations, they simply deepen your commitment to one specific skill that falls under the domain of that strategy. Strategy specs should really be separate from skill specs. Some skill specs also have an undue amount of influence over other skills, like the skills that contain stat buffs being basically mandatory for any build that uses that stat.

    Ultimately this game just doesn't have a good character building system. It's not even the specialization system that kills creative builds, it's the gear system. If you want to be top notch at anything in Shroud your gear has to be stacked for that single purpose, any kind of hybrid character just winds up being bad at two things. The true virtue of the specialization system is never allowed to come out, because you don't get to make a character who is awesome at two things at the same time, you get to make a character who uses two specs to be awesome at one thing, so we wind up with a system that bizarrely traps you between a restrictive meta and bland indistinctness. The specialization system doesn't get to shine as a way to define yourself through an interesting combination of specialized skills, but as a straight jacket that locks a character who is theoretically good at everything into only being outstanding at one single thing.

    Bottom line is, characters are poorly defined in this game because gear creates too much exclusivity between skills to allow true free building. That leads people to not appreciate the potential for build diversity specializations bring, but simply see them as uncharacteristically permanent element of a game where characters have no lasting mechanical identity otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
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