Staves and crossbows

Two issues with weapons are bugging me right now.

STAVES

Not having used staves myself yet, I asked around and I found out that they function as bludgeons and not as polearms, like you would expect. I guess I understand the choice, somewhat. You have several skills on the polearm tree that wouldn't work with a staff: at least Puncture and Skewer, and maybe Pull.

However, all of the other skills make more sense for a staff, especially the passive defense, Defensive Positions. A mage could really take advantage of a staff as a polearm for defensive, putting a little extra training into the Polearm tree just for that purpose.

CROSSBOWS

On the other side of things, we have crossbows, which use the Ranged tree, just like bows. But how can a crossbow do Rapid Fire and Multi-Shot? How could a heavy crossbow or arbalest do Rapid Fire or Multi-Shot? How does Draw Strength apply to a crossbow at all? It's mechanical! The big difference between a crossbow and a longbow is a longbow needs strength, but a crossbow needs loading time.

One tack might be doing what you saw in Darklands. In that game, there were two different skills, Bows and Missile Devices. Missile Devices not only applied to crossbows and arbalests, but also handguns. If we're ever going to get those kobold air canons in this game, that might be a route to do that. A downside of that in this game is that not many of the skills would be different. You'd still need an Aimed Shot, Eagle Eye, Ammo Scavenger, etc.

WHAT TO DO?

I don't know. There are a lot of different routes, including the one I alluded to for crossbows, if the devs want to go that route. Although, I was thinking that certain weapons could potentially not be considered "full" weapons for a certain skill tree and have some of the skills disabled. So, staves could be polearms, but have the "piercing" skills like Puncture and Skewer disabled. Crossbows could be ranged, but have the skills based on drawing the bowstring disabled, like Draw Strength, Rapid Fire, Multi-Shot.

That would also leave open the possibility for certain weapons to be cross-skill, like be able to use skills from two trees. I'm thinking things like long-hafted axes that could work somewhat like a polearm and somewhat like a bludgeon.

Like I said, I don't know. Too complicated? I'm just throwing out ideas, because these two things are bugging me.

 

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that is all

 

@Dorham Isycle,

Yea, repeating crossbow Not what we have, though, and doesn't require skills to use rapidly, either.

 

Just before I read this I was thinking of something very similar.

Like how the plan for crafting tress is we'll be able to specialize.. Smithing for example could specialize in weapons.. or specialize in armor.. Do something similar for pole arms and ranged and like you said disable specific skills which do not apply.

Putting staves in bludgeon is like.. well it's like putting axes in blades. For the same basic reason both would be ridiculous. A staff IS a pole arm.. it's not a mace or a hammer. It is not wielded like a bludgeon any more than an axe is wielded like a sword. The problem as stated is the pole arm skills are specific to the pole arm having a head. So maybe add one or two staff specific abilities in the pole arm tree and enable or disable as appropriate.

SotA weapons are not classified by damage type.. but by skill in use.. so no weapon should be placed in a category based on damage type.

 

@Bowen Bloodgood,

What's your view on bolts vs. arrows?

 

lol well obviously crossbows should use bolts and bows should use arrows.

 

To me,

Bludgeon = beat it with a stick

Pole arm = poke it with a stick

Which are the staff animations presently doing?

 

I don't know... its a good question, and hopefully someone here who has used a staff will help out. I'll see if I can get one at a good price in game just to try it out myself, too.

A better question maybe is really how staves should behave in game. Should they be used for beating, or poking? To me, the primary benefit of putting it in the Polearm tree would be the passives like Defensive Positions and some active skills like Leg Sweep and Spinning Attack. For those skills in the tree to be staff friendly, you'd have to allow Pull for staves, though, otherwise you'd have to train with another weapon first in order to gain those skills.

Or, in theory, staves could be a cross-skill weapon and use skills from both trees, though I don't know if the devs want to do that.

Real wizard staff fight!

 

Real non-wizard's staff fighting.

 

Those videos were awesome

 

Another thing to consider is the cool way in which the form of weapon attacks can combo with spells.

So, for example, you could use Whirling Blades (Blades) or Spinning Attack (Polearms), to transform a spell into an AoE around the caster. So, you could use Gust in combo with these attacks to push surrounding opponents away, or Flame Fist in combo with these attacks to set fire damage to all those around you. If a staff was a Polearm, this kind of attack would be available to mages.

The best combos I can think of with Bludgeons is with Ground Pound, which could use the Ground Pound to send out ripples of magic. So for example, a combo of Ground Pound with Chaos Bolt to send out ripples of Chaos energy.

On the original topic, I can think of some Blades, if they were in the game, that wouldn't have edges and only a point, like certain stilettos, so would be good at everything except attacks that rely on an edge (ie Whirling Blades). Its doubtful we'll see them in the game... but I guess my broader point is that there can be specialized weapons in every tree to which specific skills are disabled.

Also, on the other hand, I can think of some Blades weapons, like sickles, which would be better at edged attacks than thrusting attacks. Currently, we can't use sickles in combat!