Stay true to the original vision of SotA!

I believe some people here do not know what SotA is or as what kind of game it was announced. This leads to those people pushing the game into directions it was never intended to be in. And now this causes a lot of problems for the game as the original vision is compromised, twisted and no longer seems to work.
People push the devs to include features that don't seem to work well with the original vision of the game and this leads to SotA becoming a hotchpotch of different ideas which simply don't seem to go hand in hand and could lead to a game that won't work for many people.

Read the original vision and announcement of the game on the Kickstarter page. The word "MMORPG" is only mentioned once in the FAQ:
"Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game."

There you have it - the game was not designed as a MMORPG. Yet still people push it into this direction and away from being this: "Shroud of the Avatar is the “spiritual successor” to Richard’s previous work in the FRP genre. Our primary objectives are to tell a story even more compelling than Ultimas IV-VII, create a virtual world more interactive than Ultima VII, develop deep rich multi-player capabilities beyond combat akin to Ultima Online, and offer a bold new approach to integrate them with “Selective Multi-Player”."

A Selective Multiplayer Game where the "primary objectives are to tell a story even more compelling than Ultimas IV-VII, create a virtual world more interactive than Ultima VII, develop deep rich multi-p layer capabilities beyond combat akin to Ultima Online".

This was the intention at the beginning. A story-driven basically soloplayer game with the ability to go online.

This was the vision people paid for!

Another example:
On the Kickstarter announcement page of SotA you can read: "A fantasy role-playing game that will focus more on player choices and discovery than on level grinding."

But what do we have now? People pushed this game into the MMORPG corner and now we do have excessive grinding - congratulations.

Where are the choices and consequences? "Players will adventure in an interactive world where their choices have consequences, ethical paradoxes give them pause, and they play a vital part in weaving their own story into the immersive world and lore surrounding them."
"The familiar psychological profiling used to create your character, organically derived game-play responses to player behavior and fundamental virtues and consequence of actions will all play a huge role in Shroud of the Avatar. Players will be free to choose their path, but must then live with the consequences of their Actions."

People here call for players being forced to play in Open Online Mode to "save the game".
If the game should be saved then this can only be done by returning to the original vision of a Selective Multiplayer Game "allowing players to choose how they want to play":

• Shroud of the Avatar is infused with rich storylines, deeply integrated into game play, developed by Best Selling Author Tracy Hickman and RPG legend Richard Garriott.
• Players will adventure in an interactive world where their choices have consequences, ethical paradoxes give them pause, and they play a vital part in weaving their own story into the immersive world and lore surrounding them.
• Shroud of the Avatar is a Selective Multiplayer game, allowing players to choose how they want to play! Whether in Single-Player Offline mode or any of three online modes, the main quest line will provide greater than 40 hours of focused, story driven content.
• Shroud of the Avatar can be played as an offline DRM free solo experience or online, where our servers will enable player to player transactions, group finding, patching, streaming of dynamic content, and exploit prevention.
• Built using the Unity Game Engine, Shroud of the Avatar will support Win/Mac/Linux for official launch.
• Players can specialize in a wide range of combat and non-combat skills, provided by a robust, classless skill system, and full-featured crafting and housing mechanics. Play the way you want to play, molding your character into the hero, anti-hero, or artisan you want to be!
• Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtue is the first of a 5 game series of full-length, stand-alone games (each using the same game system), referred to as Episodes 1 through 5. Estimated availability of Episode 1, Forsaken Virtues, is October 2014, with Episodes 2 through 5 estimated for subsequent yearly releases.
• Shroud of the Avatar is a “buy-to-play” game that, once purchased, does not require a subscription to play!

 

I think that this is what we have now, isn't it? So it was announced and it was delivered.

 

But obviously people want this game to move away from this, becoming a MMORPG where players are forced to play in OPO. Or having Open PvP in the game. Then this would no longer be the game that was announced. Also some of the "pushing towards MMO" already shows negative effects on the original vision - for example grinding.

 

Noone is forcing you. If the game isnt fun for you dont play it.. just as the many people that bought it already do

Jokes aside. Pvp has always been a part in the kickstarter. Most people just dont partake in it because it offers no rewards. You wouldnt run around in the game if there are no quests just npcs talking giberish... noone would go kill mobs in a zone where no loot and xp drops... and so on.

I think your view is flawed on the game as you project your vision into the kickstarter marketing statements that are kinda neboulus.

But I hope sp will be good for you some day as I want to embrace pvp in my pvp zones and guild wars.

btw grinding has always been in ultima games... so whats ur point there

 

Perfectly happy with this vision. The only PvP that interests me is what was outlined in the original stretch goals.

Still though, I don't think a single player experience like Ulitma 4-7 and a sandboxy end game are in any way mutually exclusive.

 

I am aware of that.
Funny how different opinions can be, isn't it.

 

I second this. I think they need to put a VERY strong focus on the story elements coming up to launch.

We need:

More story scenes
Unique NPC character models
Great dialogue
Lots of interesting quest and side quests
Unique treasures and hidden items (only collectable once per account)

 

In some way it is. The fights have developed (same ideas like skills, reagentbased magic, ..) into a 3D-based environment, the pseudo-3D-view has developed into a real 3D-view. The communication-system is the same (talking to NPCs with key-phrases). A world-wide communication (guild-channel, whispers) has been introduced. The avatar-story has been slightly developed but is still far from a whole story.

Like most software-companies improvements are put into the future ("we will implement it someday for sure, but at the moment .. sorry"). On the other hand decistions are installed which - from a programmers view - block great ideas (e.g. developing a relationship to NPCs - making them unique - is not possible, if you don't save every playeraction to these NPCs. You can see that this is not implemented when you have to tell over and over again your name and they don't know you in any way). Dialogues are the same which can be found in adventures - you talk to them and get the same answers over and over again (no, taking the nap of NPCs every day into calculation doesn't make the system "active or similar to real life").

ppl realise that this is now what they finally get: a slightly improved successor to UO. For many here it is enough. For new buyers who need to get involved to continue the money-flow it may not be enough.

If a game is MMO, then - if you are allowed to play a role and that is definitly allowed in SOTA because you impersonate a person right from the beginning - it is a MMORPG as well. One follows the other - no way around.

Don't think that the personal choice of playstile is at stake. Sure, some here try to vote for more pvp, some for more pve, some for more grinding and some for less. But this is already the personal play-style. The problem is that SOTA is very straight right now (e.g. there are zones but these zones are very determined - same loot on mobs, only some secrets or treasures, spawn-points of ressources are always at the same spot, ...). To improve the imagination of adventurers and treasure-hunters (which all RPG-fans are) you need some more, surprising elements. Sure, they will come in the future - but how long it may take is a detail to speculations.

That may be one of the big problems. ppl payed in the last years for several versions of the vision and are now pointing out that this isn't what they payed for. The list is long: personal vendors vs. public vendors, lots/houses/deeds bought with RL-money vs. lots/houses/deeds bought with ingame-gold, pve vs. story, pvp vs. peaceful co-existence, quests vs. storymode, ... At every point in the last three years Portalarium inspired different groups of backers and promised things which stand against earlier promises. That was part of the marketing-concept. And they keep up the "we are in pre-alpha"-mode. Maybe later this year we will get a "beta"-mode but this is it. Personally I don't think we will get a "final"-mode because this would mean that people got all they paid for and this is not possible. Lets face it - at some point we decide that is fearly near enough to that vision we paid for or it is not. In one point we "live" in SOTA or we "head out" of SOTA. That decides how long SOTA itself will survive because they need money to keep it alive.

 

I don't feel like this is story driven at all.
You start out and you answer a few questions and it tells you you're suited for the path of truth. Then it says "But wait, the path of love is more polished, be a ranger!"
This put me off immediately. But wont be permanent, so okay fine, nevermind.

I've brute-forced my way through the Path of Love the last few releases, while I find the lore interesting and engaging the implementation ("playing find the magic keyword" with stubborn NPCs for 5 mins to get the journal update) is clunky. I usually end up clicking every underlined word in an effort to get the questline to actually advance, racking my brain for what I'm supposed to say, and usually end up going to the forums to look it up when I can't get it to work. This is frustrating because I love the concept of the dialogue system, but it should be a bit more forgiving. I don't want to post spoilers and such here but I just felt like at the end of it I felt pretty underwhelmed. That, and the entire questline took me a few hours to complete, tops, even with all the dialogue frustrations. Certainly not the epic feel I was hoping for. Did all quests in one sitting, went back to usual grind.

And that grind is getting worse.
Drop rates are being reduced, loots are being nerfed, skills are being nerfed, spawn rates for resources are being nerfed, focus costs have been jacked way up, just....blah.

Was the vision grinding green, nearly-no-xp mobs in mass to get their shoddy gear and cart it off in bulk to the one NPC who pays more in the region and dump it then rinse repeat?
Cause that's what gameplay's boiling down to.

 

OMG....you didn't like what I posted so you decided to start a new thread and use have I said....

Anyways, I am not saying to take away the different modes of play I am just pointed out that nowhere does it state what you have in one mode follows you to the other mode of play. Hence what you do in SPO stays in the mode and does not transfer over to MPO.

and here is the other thread.
https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...s-to-change-now-to-save-the-game.58505/page-2

Both you guys make the same point in what was promise on the kickstarter page should stay that way, am i correct?

Now, I went back to reading the kickstarter page and could not find what you are saying

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/portalarium/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues-0/description

I did find this

"Shroud of the Avatar is a Selective Multiplayer game, allowing players to choose how they want to play! Whether in Single-Player Offline mode or any of three online modes, the main quest line will provide greater than 40 hours of focused, story driven content."

No where in this point does it say what you have in selective Multiplayer will carry over between other modes.

In this point

"Shroud of the Avatar can be played as an offline DRM free solo experience or online, where our servers will enable player to player transactions, group finding, patching, streaming of dynamic content, and exploit prevention."

This does say player to player transactions, but it does not say you can do this between modes.

If you read more, you will get to this line

"Multiplayer Online Game - which can also be played solo player / offline"

This also does not state what you have in one mode will carry over to another mode.

And the last too points are from the FAQ

Will this be a MMO? Can I play with my friends?
Yes, you will be able to play with your friends! Multiplayer games encourage social bonds that go far beyond what can be accomplished in a solo player game. I remember the depth of these bonds in players who met in-game only to get married in real life, how people who died in the real world were deeply mourned and celebrated by their online friends whom they may never have met face to face. Though Shroud of the Avatar won’t be a massively multiplayer online role playing game, it will be a multiplayer game.


Multiplayer?! But what if I want to play offline?
The game can be played offline, no connection required. The character used for the offline version of the game will not be useable in the online version of the game for obvious exploit/hacking reasons. We are going to investigate ways to export your online character to the single player version of the game but the offline character will not be importable into the online version.

Neither of these points also say that you have in one mode will carry over to another mode.

Now, I could be wrong as there have been lots of changes over the 2-3 years, but nowhere on the kickstater main page does it state what you have in one mode will be carried over to another mode of play.

All the points above state one thing and that is they don't know how it will work.

 

I laughed out loud in real life on that one. It's funny because it's true

 

Thats the pve sandbox experience...

 

Some people know they know, some know they don't know. Anyway, no one could have predicted EXACTLY what SotA would be in 3 years.

I love old stuff, and looking back from time to time. Did anyone remember the old trailer?

Just compare it to a new trailer, to appreciate the shift on the game concepts.

 

I'm honestly surprised seeing posts of this kind crying wolf and shunning the non believers.

For a game that's on the verge of becoming an MMORPG pushed away by the evil players that only want to grind, it's surprising how focused the development is in deploying the whole storyline, create beautiful scenes, imprint behaviors on NPCs, and develop the companions. On the other hand we have a somewhat functional use based system for progression, an unbalanced combat that watered down the original elements it presented, no meaningful PVP and first stages of endgame content.

But yeah, you're free to fear whatever you want. I just want to remember everyone that nobody pushes nothing to nowhere; we just expose our preferences. Only the devs can push the game in a direction or another... If they do so it's because they think its good for the game and if they're wrong... well, they're human after all.

But don't worry, i get it. It's always easy to blame an enemy. Some things don't change.

 

I think I get your meaning but the triple negative is confusing.

 

I believe it was suppose to be something for the RPG fans and an Mmorpg fans. Usually, I steer clear of most games that are B2P because I despise cash shops, I prefer subscription based games, which is why the only Kickstarter game I've backed is Camelot Unchained (Mark Jacobs also made one of my all time favorite pvp rvr games DAOC). My main reason for buying and pledging so high in Sota after kickstarter, was because I was convinced in 2013 by RG (who help create one of my favorite mmorpgs UO), on another forum, that this was a game that was an mmorpg too and could be a game for a player like me, a person who only plays Mmorpgs.

 

Can someone please enlighten me as something is not adding up. I been reading over the Kickstarter page and the quote below, but can not find the part or section where it states what you have in SPO is SHARED between MPO or FOM.

I am guessing that was done for a reason, which is to give the dev's the right to make any changes they see fit in the future.

No one here is saying to get rid of the 4 modes of play, as that would be going against what they stated in the kickstarter and the quote below. We are just saying there are problems that need to be addressed. We are using the forums as a way to brainstorm solutions to find ways to make it fair for everyone.

Also, no one is forcing anyone to play MPO mode or enter in PVP, if people like SPO that's cool.

 

Maybe this can help: Take a look at this video. At around minute 3:00 Richard explains to Warren Spector what SotA is and he says that they want to have an opt-in or opt-out system for the selective multiplayer. Which I think implies that we can switch whenever we want - seamlessly.

 

um your forgetting about watchers..
Everyone kills them for no loot and no xp.

Regarding Grinding, um you have to grind in this game because there is no end game progression yet, once your past level 50 and firmly in 5 skull areas, what your fighting is what your going to keep fighting until you are able to solo group content.
Effectively this means that your done before the grinding even starts, because you reach "end game" in less than a week of play.

The emphasis on regional economies, has meant we have lots and lots of lowbie areas, and then we have "the rise", or Choke point farming. In it's current state, they could have saved a ton of money and just added a big dungeon, a choke point, and a shardfall to Hidden value and left the game there, because other than neighborhoods for us to place our houses in, that's effectively the entire game in it's current state.

The story isn't in, we are only seeing glimpses of the start of story. Story is always the last thing completed.

Regarding forcing us to play in Open Online mode to "save the game". I think we all knew that person was crazy and didn't understand what was going on.
The engine as is can't handle "real MMO" numbers in an instance. The mere fact they are trying to get more people in Multiplayer mode should tell you that vast majority of us play the game the way your advocating.
A sandbox game with a Massively Multi-player Econonmy, and the ability to group with friends.

 

Yep, I know the video and no one in the video said anything about carrying things between modes. All they talk about is the different modes, that's about it.

If you want to assume you can carry things between modes that up to you. but the video does not say that.