Stream Vods - PvP talks from Chris

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Violet Ronso, Nov 1, 2021.

  1. Adam Crow

    Adam Crow Avatar

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    For sure, that's what got me amped up so I started fighting for this stuff again.

    One thing that differentiates me from the rest of the sota pvpers is I will never give up. I will always be here fighting to make pvp fun in sota. Hopefully it happens one day, and hopefully the players that keep fighting against it will some day realize it's actually good for the game overall.
     
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  2. Adam Crow

    Adam Crow Avatar

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    87k... maybe 94k if I'm drunk

    Edit: somebody asked me if I just made up these numbers... NO! This is how much I'd pay, so these numbers are actually legit. And yeah, it's 94k right now
     
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  3. Time Lord

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    ~Maybe we need Murder, as in, Murder Incorporated~

    [​IMG]

    Maybe there could be an NPC who handed out murder contracts, listing the name of any flagged pvp player and a price of that player, fitting to how many players that pvp player had killed over the past 30 days.

    Suppose that contract could be shared with other players becoming a party to that contract, once the contract being filled, the victim dead, then all incorporated in the contract share a portion of that contract.

    Effects sought after in this, is to aquaint all pvp players with each other while also "Ad Hoc" binding them into cooperative groups until the contract is filled.

    We are taking scoundrel behavior in this, so it wouldn't be a bad idea if any pvp player could become a part in multiple murder contracts within a small limited amount, which then creates intrigued, as no one knows who is enjoined in a contract to kill whom.

    We have a small amount of pvp players, no matter if they are all puffing their chests out at once, they are still a small group thus requiring small group activities, not faction or guild wars, which are more suited for vastly larger groups than we could ever muster.

    Maybe the victim gets that small amount of exp boost that all pvp flagged currently get.

    I do think the extra exp boost pvp currently recieves is totally un-needed and un-desurved.

    When a pvp player is the target of a contract, then the exp boost would be the incentive for that player to remain in play within the game.

    Having motive is always needed in murder and in all pvp, because what we are most compleining about here, is senseless killing without motive.

    Murder contracts would provide what we want in small population pvp.

    [​IMG]
    ~Time Lord~:cool:
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  4. Burzmali

    Burzmali Avatar

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    I still can't wrap my head around why folks think PVP in an MMORPG in 2022 pulls in players. Actual enjoyable PVP exited the MMORPG space over a decade ago, as you can see all the top games are Battle Royals and various other games where, and this is the key point, a player's ability to win is based more on their ability to play the game than on how long they have played it. Time in game is always the overriding factor in MMORPGs, and with no level cap, there is no reason for someone to pick up the game for PVP, you will always be behind the top fighters and you will never reach the top ranks unless they leave the game.

    Hell, more than twenty years ago I was playing MUDs that understood that and had arenas that specifically reduced all combatants to a common set of baseline stats so that load out and "strategy" *cough* macros *cough* determined who won.
     
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  5. Ancev

    Ancev Bug Hunter

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    Good points.

    IMO - PvP can be balanced in SOTA by separating the PvE and PvP skills and moving to a modified hard cap system - for PvP skills only. As a PvP player I should be able to raise my skills by fighting other players but my skill gains shouldn't be associated with the adventure pool (in the end-game), just make them use based with a small chance for gains at high levels. It shouldn't be too constrictive, though. If PvP players raise their skills faster than you normally would in PvE, it shouldn't be a big deal because based on my proposal above it's not giving you an advantage against PvE mobs. The server should know when a Fire Arrow is PvE or PvP simply based on the target, a mob or a player.

    It's my hope with the Skill Glyphs/PvP overhaul thread that the majority of changes designed for PvP will no longer affect the PvE community because the skills will essentially be duplicated and separate. There's no maintenance associated with the PvP skills, once you get them to a certain skill level they stay there unless you want to make significant changes to your build and in that case you would need to move skill points around using whatever skill refinement method would be decided.
     
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  6. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    We do need a new skill tree o_O for anything!
    Maybe an innate tree, or a few innate trees.
    Innate programing development is cheap!
    ~TL~
     
  7. Ancev

    Ancev Bug Hunter

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    This is what I'm talking about - https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...stem-and-overhauling-pvp.171461/#post-1339759

    Not adding new skills per say, but creating a mirror image for PvE and PvP to separate them. This would allow players to have different spell effects for the PvE and PvP versions of spells, along with different statistics. As well as the capped skill system for PvP.
     
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  8. Burzmali

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    The problem there is that, in my experience, the majority of people that want an honest PVP don't play MMORPGs, they play BRs or any of the other options out their these days. That leaves those that prefers ganking noobs and the like as the majority PVP population in MMORPGs, meaning that implementing any degree of "fairness" is going to be fought tooth and nail.
     
  9. Adam Crow

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    You're just speculating. In my experience everyone wants pvp, it's just different for everyone.

    For example I want the ability to jump into a fight and feel like I'm not at a huge disadvantage before the fight even begins. Right now that would only happen in a capped scene. But I also want the other player to be ready, I don't like to cheap shot people and catch them off guard,(I do because that's how sota works) so that pretty much eliminates any out in the field encounters because when you see red, you attack.

    If we had an arena where we could enter and fight each other with exactly the same skills and gear and whatever, that would be super fun for me. And if something like that works in an arena setting it could definitely be moved into the open world for pvp combat.

    Pvp in fps shooters is really fun for sure but I played UO and Eve for the majority of my gaming life, and the pvp I experienced in those games is like night and day, compared to the fps games. When you pvp in a game that isn't just 100% pvp it can mean much more, you can feel it much more.

    I've been here for years, and still when I see Estroma, Jemma, Rev, Delta, the pvp names we all recognize... when that red name pops on my screen my heart races and I feel like a kid again. I've gotten a little better lately at staying calm but it's hard in a game like this, even with no consequences. Because when I go to sleep that night, I know I just got wrecked and I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to my deck to counter it. I'll get up and go look at combat logs in the middle of the night to see if I missed something. That doesn't happen in those first person shooter battle royale games, you don't feel the blood pumping or adrenaline at all once you get comfortable. Your always fighting so nothing ever feels special after a while. Mmo pvp is on a different level when you finally realize how fun it can be.

    I'm really sick of people saying general statements degrading players that want to pvp in mmorpgs. I enjoy almost every part of this game, i like deco, I have a pot, I love role-playing, crafting, questing, there isn't much I don't enjoy... but my real passion will always be pvp and a game like this has so much more potential for me than a fps game. So F off with that rhetoric, if you have some ideas to help I'd love to hear it, but keep that negative bs off the forums please. I'm done listening to it after so many years of being belittled.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
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  10. queenbee

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    I am pro PVP in Shroud. I think the two main reasons people PVP in shroud is because it's fun and the rewards. And these two reasons are why I think PVP is failing.

    The current PVP set up takes a lot of time and effort to be successful. The top PVPers live and breathe pvp. They are constantly dueling, testing decks, acquiring the best armor, and using the best food/potion/buff combo. They do this because they have fun PVPing.

    The average player PVP because they want the reward. And right now, the rewards do not match the time and effort it takes to be good at PVP.

    The PVP system has kind of backed itself up into a corner. Right now they have no good way to reward PVP without just advancing the top PVPers and leaving the other players behind.
     
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  11. Burzmali

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    I've played MMORPGs and their precursors off and on for 25 years and I've never had as good of a PVP experience as I've had on middling indie titles in other genres. By their nature, MMORPGs make it easy for players to "put their thumbs on the scale" and change a fair fight into a lopsided one and folks will do exactly that, not all of them, but enough that those that don't will get tried of getting ganked and leave. Look at Runescape, they have combat distilled down to as basic a level as any MMORPG ever has and their PVP scene is nothing but gankers trying to con marks and gamblers trying to con marks. The problem isn't PVP, it's that enough players prioritize winning that any game that doesn't start each PVP fight at zero and aggressively set up fights based on relative skill level of the players is going to be a magnet for griefers regardless of how "good" the system is otherwise.

    If you've drank too much of the SOTAde to see that the core design of SOTA makes it poor at best for PVP play, I can't help you.
     
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  12. Adam Crow

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    Yeah I've been playing for years too and I totally understand your points here. But that doesn't mean I'm going to give up on that specific type of gameplay for a game I love.

    Pvp can work in all shapes and forms. I've played this game since release 21 and I couldn't tell you about any real specific PvE moments in this game because they just aren't memorable. But I could sit and talk for hours about pvp interactions, and I remember things and fights from years ago. That's what interests me, impromptu pvp encounters, which are almost never fair fights. I've lost some I should have won and won some I should have lost, but those are the moments that stay in my memory. That's the stuff that matters to me in this game.

    I'm not looking for full scale, epic pvp here with tons of players. That dream is long gone at this point. I just want to have some meaningful stuff to do, because even in its crappy current state, I'm still having fun with pvp. A lot of the players are still here and involved in pvp are actually incredibly friendly, and almost always offer advice, especially when they see how bad I am :D
     
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  13. Jackrabbit

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    That has always been the correct yet never implemented solution.
     
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  14. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    You need to eat more veggies and less cat poop! ;)
     
  15. Burzmali

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    Come on, we all know that most of the remaining players in the game are effectively hoarders. You introduce a new trinket and they'll want to add it to their collection to be able to say they have one and/or spend an hour carefully positioning it in their elegantly appointed mansion in such a way that it looks like they carelessly discarded it on the way to the veranda.
     
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  16. Jackrabbit

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    You are absolutely correct. Not only do they want it, they absolutely believe that they deserve it, and with minimal to zero effort, if you please. That mental disability is why this game is where it is, and has been.

    Seriously, there's like 200 active, real players, and only a handful of people who even participate in novice pvp. The time has long passed. Good luck, but, no one outside of the few players left even cares, and this game has no chance of ever attracting more than a few people here and there who actually stay. That's been it's history, the same choices made by the same players and devs, and the same results, time after time. Equality of outcome and being perpetually offended doesn't work well in video games either. Why would Chris spend valuable developer time for this now, as opposed to the previous 6 years when there were large groups of real pvp'ers literally screaming for content. Must be one of those 'industry professional' secrets that i'm not smart enough to understand. lmao

    Grumpy Krabnevir
     
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  17. FBohler

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    Sad but true.