Stream Vods - PvP talks from Chris

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Violet Ronso, Nov 1, 2021.

  1. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    Here is the Stream vod : (6) Atos just chatting about PVP efforts and New World thoughts. Yes, and a few prizes. - Twitch

    3:50 Start of PvP Talk
    7:10 Talk of Faction possibilities *
    8:55 Talk of a think-tank group, emphasis on listening to players he trusts more. **
    13:50 End of PvP talks

    So I really wanted to listen in on talks of PvP, because for me its one of the elements that should be fun in Shroud, but hasn't really been, for many reasons. First off I found the talk very short, with more of a "Here are a few points I want to start thinking about" rather than a "Here is what we are working towards. A bit dissapointing when PvP has been one of the main conversation drives ppon the forums and ingame for so damn long, but hey, it seems like it might be picking up. I also added my own suggestions for some points, in how maybe these ideas could be made interesting. One thing is for sure, if things get added just to get added, with no goal, progression or impact in mind (and without a HUGE pass on balancing PvP to make it more accessible to everyone), I doubt these efforts will help in any way.

    My own points :

    * Suggestion : Use the current groups in the game : Kobold, Elves, Humans, etc. Get reputation with that group, improving your benefits in their main town. Add in "PvP quests" allowing you to do something for them, and attack another faction, in a PvP environment (meaning people will be pushed to those PvP environments to raise their reputation, and risk getting fought).
    ** Hope the selected people are both people who like to PvP/Know how to PvP but also people who struggle to get into it to figure out why they struggle
     
  2. jrs99

    jrs99 Avatar

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    missed the stream but watching now...
     
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  3. FBohler

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    I would like to see a list of people he trusts.
    If the list is made mainly of white knight types, there's a huge risk that this council of notables become just an echo chamber.
    Beware, Chris, while picking your trusted ones.

    Other risk would be collecting opinion from those who, as users, have a vision that might not become a good product. This one is trickier IMO.


    My 2 cents:
    Weekly faction based PvP event to grant PvE / gathering / crafting bonuses to the winners. Basically a huge TDM or CTF or CP.
    Main challenge: balance!
    My proposed solution: Make higher AL take longer to respawn. Prevent more than 2 wins in a row for any given faction. If a faction can't win for a month, they get a lesser buff and/or get slight PvP bonus.
    Side problems: low attendance.
    Solution: have GMs managing it and selecting teams if needed.
     
  4. Adam Crow

    Adam Crow Avatar

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    I've been trying to think of rewards that would be worth fighting over but aren't huge advantages. What do you guys think about double xp tokens? Everyone who participates in a battle/event would receive a 1 hour double xp token (non tradeable) that they could use whenever they wanted, and maybe the winning team gets 2 hour tokens? I'm picturing something with a definite benefit, but still small enough so that those not interested in these events won't feel left out. Or maybe smaller/shorter versions of the obsidian potions that will give little boost for a short duration of time.
     
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  5. Anpu

    Anpu Bug Hunter

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    The actual thing missing right now is an actual deterrent for actually dying. That’s the first thing that needs to be added.

    It needs to be something that when you die, it’s detrimental, but not over the top detrimental that the player will just give up and log out. Something possibly like equipped item durability loss? That’s definitely a deterrent, but not too detrimental.

    And then possibly a debuff that like lowers your base stats (STR/INT/DEX) by a small amount. But will lower your base stats upon dying more (incremental). Like possibly 1% stat loss. Then 5%. Then 10% then 20% then 40% etc….
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
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  6. FBohler

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    I don't see this adding any value to the game.
    It doesn't sound fun or challenging or interesting or rewarding. It's pure punishment.

    Even with death being very forgiving in SotA, a lot of people are not willing to risk dying in PvP. That's because even if risk is very low (i.e. just look for a nearby ankh) the reward is non existent.

    Territory control (faction based) and weekly events would make for good rewards with small risks other than wasting a couple of hours fighting in these battles (which can be potentially fun).
     
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  7. jrs99

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    I agree here. I don't think making death hurt will help bring people in.
    I am the reigning king of PvP deaths... :D

    I do think bigger rewards for taking the risk is where it's at.
     
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  8. Adam Crow

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    Adding a death penalty will not help pvp at all. It will also annoy everyone that pve's. If we actually had some reason to fight each other meaningfully, I'm all for a death penalty. But until then, no thank you.

    I've played this game with a harsh xp death penalty, a not so harsh xp death penalty and no death penalty. I fought against removing the penalties on the forums, but afterwards I can honestly say those penalties brought me absolutely no enjoyment whatsoever. After playing during those different times I will gladly take the no death penalty.

    If a weaker one like you're suggesting was added for gear, I don't think anyone would notice, so it would just benefit crafters.
     
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  9. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    Why... Why can't PvPers have their special candy? That's my first question, second one is do you REALLY think that if PvPers can get double exp tokens there wont be an outrage from the Anti-PvP crowd saying they feel forced to PvP if they want to benefit from double exp?

    No, What needs to be put in place is stuff FOR THE PVPERS. You build a PvP environement, design PvP rewards to go with it, stuff that the PvE crowd wont need/require/want, but that will please your PvPers as a suitable reward.
     
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  10. Violet Ronso

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    I disagree, you don't need deterents to die, because otherwise you are removing some peoples option for PvP.

    If you, Anpu, decide to join PvP right now, today, and fight 10 different PvPers (lucky you, you aren't even stuck fighting Revenant 5 out of those 10 times). How many fights do you think you can win today? I'll tell you, I expect you to lose AT LEAST 8 oout of those 10 fights, that means you are hit with the death penalty 8 times out of 10 fights, in the current version of the game, you aren't getting anything out of those 10 fights, so why even bother with PvP if all you are gonna get out of it is at least 8 hits to your durability, and then a potential of 2 bone pieces.

    Now add in rewards, are you rewarding both the loser and the winner or just the winner, cause if you reward only the winner, once again, after losing 80% of your fights, you'll give up on PvP until you can "Catch up"... What does catching up in Shroud mean? Right now, catching up means multiple months of experience grind, Very good gear worth a lot of money or resources, and actual practice, that means you're out of PvP for multiple months, enough to have your PvPers quit due to the lack of fights, or simply you, and the other upcoming pvpers get burnt out of all the grind required and were still at the first step, trying to get people interested.

    Okay, lets give rewards to everyone then! Well now, what are these rewards? Are the rewards worth the risk in durability? Do you feel like you're going no where because your increased durability costs are chomping most of your reward? As a loser, is it worth pushing for more? In that case, why have a death penalty at all? I've seen it here often, and in the case of a game like Shroud, it's even more true, but dying means respawning, means wasting a lot of time, needing to rebuff, some consumables wear off so you need to spend more consumables, the death penalty is already there, the death penalty is not at all what is lacking to make a PvP system, its the reward, and the reward needs to be enough to out weight the costs/risks.
     
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  11. queenbee

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    Let's just nerf Rev... nerf Estroma... and while we are at it, nerf Deltalok and Joe. (Please do not tell any of them where I live.)
     
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  12. FBohler

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    What do you have against Brazilian folks?
    :p
     
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  13. majoria70

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    One thing to note in balancing for pvp it absolutely effects pve balancing as well. I strongly suggest we stop doing that in the most part. Pvp wearables and buffs should be used unless a system were in place that adjusts character build only when switching to pvp mode.

    Other wise it is more of the same with players quitting because their build gets messed up. Give players a chance to customize themselves through items, armors and buffs made specifically available instead of continuing to tweak and untweak our character build.

    We have little say in this when that happens. When will the madness stop?

    I think factions are great if created along with pvp goals (quests), rewards, incentives, and achievements. Dev Balancing is a bad idea. Give players creative options thru items etc to control their destinies.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2022
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  14. queenbee

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    I have nothing against Brazilians. RevCo are my friends which is why I give them grief.

    On a serious note, the current PVP system would be like the casual jogger taking on Usain Bolt. The game offers nothing to entice the casual jogger to train and take on Usain Bolt.
     
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  15. FBohler

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    I think Chris mentioned in one of his recent streams that he's adjusting balance in PvE and PvP separately. From what I understood, when a skill gets balanced in PvP it shouldn't change the PvE counterpart, so we get 2 separate systems.
    For me that's great news and it'll enable for less traumatic PvP balancing.
     
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  16. Adam Crow

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    Hey im with you there, trust me. I'm just being realistic and I want to make sure above all else, they keep the players that are currently buying from the Crown store and paying for subscriptions happy. Because pvp or not, I still enjoy playing this game.

    I've been waiting for something decent with pvp for so long now, it's hard to envision it happening anymore. I feel like we've been to this point where they seem like they're going to do something so many times... but then you realize there's still no plan at all for meaningful pvp. Kind of like the pvp event I've been thinking about running for like 4 years. Some day maybe haha.
     
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  17. queenbee

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    Looking at each zone that will contain PVP needs different rewards and penalties. The Fall is geared for the cut throat PVPers. So no skill cap, a death penalty, good experience gain, and good reward would work well here. Mob drops should also match the risk involved in farming here. Brave Coast is for the casual PVPer. So a skill cap would work well here. Currently, no reward (unless it's some kind of coin) for Brave Coast is necessary since the reward is in the fishing contest. Obsidian Trials already has a skill cap and no death penalty with a coin reward for the winner... great start! Ardoris Arena is supposed to allow teams so it will be interesting where that goes. We do need more team PVP.
     
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  18. Blake47

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    I’m all for getting involved with PvP. Think it would be very interesting to see a WOW style PvP arena ….3x3 for example…
     
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  19. Time Lord

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    After watching this stream, I'm really encouraged the way this is being handled. Limiting the group to those good PvP idea people, I think is the best idea in it!

    I'm not one of those people, which was even more encouraging!
    [​IMG]
    :D~Time Lord~
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2021
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  20. FBohler

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    There's Ardoris arena. Always empty though.