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T15 Ancient dragons

Discussion in 'Release 47 Feedback Forum' started by Cryodacry, Oct 27, 2017.

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  1. Cryodacry

    Cryodacry Avatar

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    So these guy's need some serious toning back. With the Changes they went from being reasonably killable to now hitting exceptionally hard. These guy's now hit for 750's on their crits which makes them out of the reach of people who are below 90. Even then with my 1000 hp it was incredibly hard for the healer to catch me before the next two attacks would finish me off. Basically if these guy's are to be tanked Heavy Armor needs more mitigation or they need to be doing about 20-30% less damage on their crits .... which appear to be 3x ?!?

    Their loot is pretty terrible considering the large amount of effort involved with killing them. I believe we killed 8-10 of them last night and none of them yielded an Arti... the only difference in their loot is that they drop 2 haunches instead of 1 ?
     
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  2. Trihugger

    Trihugger Avatar

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    Yea man this is the great punking patch of endgame lol. Combat formula needs some definite tweaking so that crits are mitigated better now that we can’t be immune to them anymore. Looks like a heavy crafting release lol.
     
  3. Mac2

    Mac2 Avatar

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    Ya, knew this was going to happen with the changes, just remember, giving more def for us to fight things like that will also give more def for people you fight in pvp.
     
  4. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    The first time we killed, 1 dragon head droped..I guess just luck :D

    Maybe some changes are needed (loot loot..always loot tables) but these ones must keep as party/raid content and never able to solo (we have other bosses and small dragon for solo).
     
  5. Cryodacry

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    All that needs to happen is reduce their Crit multipliers .... These guy's have a 2.5x or 3x crit multiplier .... This makes them impossible to tank as 1 out of 20 hits is going to be 600 - 850 this also applies to T10 dragons. They hit this hard also.... you gota be rocking around 1100 hp to do the T10 dragons now and you really need a buddy to keep you alive
     
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  6. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Are you of the opinion that they should be soloable ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  7. Omegaflux

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    If someone can successfully kill "8-10" of these "Ancient Dragons" in one night, should they really be making them easier?
    Please do not get it twisted, I understand what the OP is saying; a tankable fight vs one where consecutive crits are too high to tank through and be healed without dying. Impossible is a strong term though, it implies the Avatar is as strong as it possibly can be with best possible gear and even when the group tactics are absolutely perfect, it still cannot be tanked without a death; Are there more challenging encounters in the entire game than the fairly new Ancient Dragon?

    It appears there will continue to be a dilemma for a game that hasn't even hit full release yet; I suppose they can a) continue to make tougher battles for the entire player base to enjoy and challenge the strongest players, or b) player skills and capability is reduced so the same mobs are tougher battles.

    It cannot be easy to achieve that balance especially during development when players can solo and beat the snot out of a Dragon one day and the next patch it takes a group of 3 or more with synchronized tactics to bring the same beast down. This tends to upset end gamers while others point and laugh at how upset they get. I fall on either side depending how strongly I feel that day about my favorite game.
     
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  8. Cryodacry

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    I have mixed feelings on if they should be solo able.... but they should be tank able .... all that needs to happen is reduce the critical multiplier of their hits .... 2.5x is just too much I have enough hp to survive these hits most of the time but if you get 2 consecutive hits that are critical. There is no healer in the game that can catch you. Just for the fact that we have Cast times and Lag to deal with. This also isn't a problem just with dragons ... trolls can hit insanely hard now.
     
  9. Spinok

    Spinok Avatar

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    Want to put few coins about them.
    When they only was implemented first two(maybe 1.5 days) each ancient dragon give dragon neck. It was good loot.
    To solo them u was need to tank 2 ancient dragons at the moment, and have the second window(due to huge radius of agro, was VERY hard to lose agro of second one and field dress, at least for me because I fought them near their respawn point)
    I was able to tank them both on a place(not running, there is a huge difference btw) as archer in a leather during the moon, BUT time which u need to kill one during tanking two dragons was around 20-30 minutes(they regen they run and more than half of your deck was with tank abilities). So after they changed 100% chance of neck drop, soloing them in this location became useless even before r47
    As DexGodmode is over I would not even try to solo it now.
    In a sum:
    1)I think that in general they already was not soloable (exept multibox), yes you can kill one but for unreasonable time and you was not able to loot what you kill in general. So it is a group content and pretty good I think but as almost all need some tuning.
    2) Completely agree with this:
    3) Again agree with you such boss imho should drop at least cheap artifact for 80% as a minimum.
     
  10. ErikRulez

    ErikRulez Avatar

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    This. What/How many did it take to kill them?

    Perhaps @Chris should add the skulls/body parts from all of the hapless avatars the dragons have slain to their loot.
     
  11. Cryodacry

    Cryodacry Avatar

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    it took a group of 4 very high level players, all Ranging from 96-112. The problem wasn't our dps but he fact that no mater who was tanking there was a 1 in 20 % chance that you were going to get hit for 750 + damage. This is un-tankable spike damage with the current mitigation mechanics. Now the only thing that needs to change is reducing the crit multiplier for NPC crit's.

    As for looting the body parts of hapless avatars. I don't see how that is an improvment over the loot... expecially when you are farming out there and no one has died to it.
     
  12. ErikRulez

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    My point, is that you still defeated it several times. Lets say they put them out there to see if someone could beat them. You did, even with a good probability that your tank would get killed during the battle. If I was a dev gauging end game difficulty, your repeated success makes a strong point. If the devs intended to make an encounter that challenges even the highest level group, it sounds like they were semi-successful. Though, in the end you farmed them. It may not have been easy, but you did and that sends another message to the devs. To me, it all comes down to how difficult the devs wanted the encounter to be. It maybe they don't want the dragons to be "safely" tank-able.

    That being said, as a player, I'm in favor of better heavy armor damage mitigation since I'm a heavy armor melee focused player and right now I get squashed by much smaller opponents than ancient dragons.

    Yeah but if they persist a list of those who came before it might be interesting in a morbid way to see who was there before. Of course once you loot the list would reset. It may give incentive for some to get their skulls back from the dragons or post a bounty to have someone do it for them. Just a thought in the Halloween spirit that I am in... :)
     
  13. Trihugger

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    The main take home here is that the tank is going to die. That is horrible design where death actually matters. Who the hell will ever want to tank? If we're ever going to make SOTA a successful group based combat game, then the tank needs some relative assurance that they're going to be able to survive if they do everything right. As it stands right now... that's wishful thinking because critical hits hurt entirely too much/our methods of dealing with crazy high damage quickly are zero.

    You have to think of it in terms of overall loss for that one player. Assume that player dies each kill just because that makes my math easier... How many kills do you have to do before he even breaks even experience wise..? Doesn't seem fun to be the tank and tanking is typically the least played role anyway in MMO's. Encounter has to be fun for everyone. You cannot look at this from a simple "Did they kill it? Great, moving on." perspective. I know this is vastly oversimplifying what you stated but as it stands this IS a problem.
     
  14. ErikRulez

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    True, in terms of xp farming, I agree the risk is not acceptable to me. I don't think any of the bigger things I have killed so far have ever given me a net xp gain. With the right carrot in place farming maybe worth it to some and with death decay being used as a tool to enforce soft caps, that maybe part of the plan.
     
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  15. Trihugger

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    It could be. They just need to be very careful in terms of making tanks actually able to take the damage vs constantly dying. If I'm the tank and I'm the only one dying consistently and that's effectively a "by design" (basically how stuff stands at this moment vs how they want it to be) there will be no tanks. It's a tough rope to walk because all the skills are available to everyone so how do you make a tank able to survive and then prevent a DPS from doing some bare-bones version of it =\. Especially when heavy armor is effectively the highest melee DPS armor in the game and also offers the best protection... Only thing I can think of is make some crit immune buff but make it so you totally suck donkey dong in terms of damage output with it on + some aggro modifier to compensate. A true "tank" stance I guess.
     
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  16. ErikRulez

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    Yeah, the tanks would be the first and possibly only to fall. Which is an unfair for the tanks that have to shoulder a greater risk in this situation. If they do intend to make this a mechanism to help their soft cap they should find a way to spread the damage around so the risk is more equal.
     
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  17. Cryodacry

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    I am with Trihugger. Add a Stance for heavy armor that is like a supped up defensive stance with a -30% damage and gives +100% agro. Would be a net gain of 40 % agro with less DPS and more Tankyness. Have it add 100% crit damage reduction which would reduce NPC crits to 1.5x crits instead of 2.5x. This would mean that critical hits would be hitting for roughly 300-400's. Add a % HP boast and you now have a tank stance. Say 20% @ GM.
     
  18. xadoor

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    They are gonna need some imagination around group content at some point. You can't just give things more HPs and adjust how hard things hit in a game where there is no max adventure level. I'm only 84 but so far have only seen:
    1) They have more HPs
    2) They knock you down a lot
    3) They hit really hard
    4) There is a lot of them

    That's not gonna make interesting group content.
     
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  19. Cryodacry

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    I would go as far as double their HP ... Then make them drop Legendary Bags every kill. Make these things worth it.... but require structured game play to kill them or a ridicules amount of time investment. The Shear HP Regen with them having 50k hp would basically require 4 people to kill.

    (Edit)

    First things first though..... they need to be tankable with a standard healer .... not just @Andartianna as your healer =)
     
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  20. Chrystoph Reis

    Chrystoph Reis Avatar

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    I like the changes... tired of running around looking for a challenge... It will promote more grouping at end game. They just need to balance risk/reward. Allow parties up to 25. Etcetera... Etcetera....
     
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