The 3 reasons why I don't actually play

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by dayero, May 8, 2019.

  1. dayero

    dayero Avatar

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    hi,

    this is a bit of a pointless thread considering everything i am going to say has probably already been said by someone putting in a lot more effort and thinking into it.
    If there is anything I can add is a bit of objectivity and lack of bitterness. Yeah, Sota is not my life and i got plenty of great games to play. It would be awesome if some day it turns out to be awesome but if that never happens i'll live.

    So, the reasons why I think SOTA isn't fun at the moment and I haven't played in many months:

    a) immersion
    b) story
    c) grind

    let's get to c) first because it's the easiest to tackle: grind in this game isn't fun. this is most notable in crafting. there are no mini-games or anything skill based and really nothing to grind for. It has a single game mechanic through all systems and that is: click and wait. no thanks

    newest offender: fishing. if you take away the loot table and the actual fish objects, the whole system is just a copy paste from the other gathering systems. This would have been a great opportunity for a decent mini-game.


    b) yeah, so the story bored me to death and I won't finish it. like that guy from the love quest who lost his wife. can't for the life of me remember his name, sorry. I think it was commision free vendor or something.

    Long story short: this game basically has no unique npc's. In a 2d game they could have gotten away with little character pictures. In a 3d game, you need models with faces. And expressions. Since that was probably always out of reach technology-wise, i'd say voice acting at least the main npc's in the main story was the only way to avoid everyone being a faceless dialogue box.
    Actually that is still an option. And please don't tell me it's about money. I've seen one man "studios" pull off very decent voice acting with the help of local theatre groups. And pretty much half the US west coast population are unemployed actors.


    a) i don't even know where to start. some things were probably unavoidable with their model of financing, like all the store and telethon items that turn every players property into a frcking disney children's birthday. yeah sorry, it's horrible.

    other decisions that hurt immersion however were entirely unforced errors. like the whole xp system. not only can you chop wood all day to become a master blacksmith or chop enemies all day to become a master water magician, now you can also chop wood all day to make ANOTHER guy become a master blacksmith. same with shared virtues.

    then there is the steampunk. if you wanna see how that is done well, look at that rpg classic arcanum. Technology is a part of the story and the fantasy world there. Here it's just thrown in. No story, no plausible sources, zero representation in the crafting system.

    there is a lot more but in the end it comes down to this: do you feel connected to the character you are playing and the world you are playing it in? and for me right now that is a clear no.

    Alright, that's it. Got it off my chest. Sorry for that ;)
     
  2. that_shawn_guy

    that_shawn_guy Avatar

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    Since you don't actually play, why still be part of the community by posting here?

    I'm not trying to be flippant. I'm genuinely curious to understand what keeps or brings you back here.
     
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  3. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    I think he was just sharing his observations...

    for me the answer is yes... maybe because I've invested too much time on it...
     
  4. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    yes, there is nothing wrong in checking in from time to time to see if there are anything worth coming back to...
     
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  5. Violette Dyonisys

    Violette Dyonisys Avatar

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    Same for me, I feel connected to my avatar because I play him in a way that represents me : constantly changing his mind, constantly trying to find different ways to be efficient even though people have already done tons of ground work, and often wandering aimlessly. If I would play my avatar the way every calls the most efficient way, I would bore myself out also.
     
  6. Spoon

    Spoon Bug Brigade - Bug Hunter

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    I loved Arcanum. It was mentioned frequently in the early day from players.
    There was lots of stuff to be inspired by from that game.

    Funnily enough just by searching for a post of mine mentioning arcanum I found this
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...top-12-must-haves-for-sota.24560/#post-354710

    In which I had a list of wishes for the then unreleased game.

    Hehe, still wish we could have got such stuff would have helped with your Immersion/Story bits. But hey, 3 out of 12 ain't all bad.

    I have always been an advocate about treating fence-sitters and leavers with extra care and attention.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2019
  7. Arkah EMPstrike

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    I am into the story, the technology is all from the Kobolds.

    Kobolds are the only non-human native race to novia. They have thier own civilization and culture and since they have never been at war with themselves, they have managed to become very technologically advanced and in the past have shared thier technology with humans.

    Kobolds were often made fun of and persecuted by humans, including some being experimented on by the obsidians and were driven underground, which is why they no longer are very willing to help humans. When encountering elite kobolds or visiting thier underground rresearch facilities, its VERY clear that they stopped willingly sharing their technological advancments a long time ago.

    The skill system requires you to use the skill to raise it. The xp pool is just the mechanism to ensure you cant sit and macro it all day afk without first going out and actually doing stuff in the game first. You cant go chop a bunch of trees then find yourself a GM blacksmith, you have to go blacksmith stuff to raise blacksmithing.

    I dont like grinding XP so i dont force myself to do that but if maxing your XP is your game, it is very grindy. And the NPCs are pretty bland. I also thing voice acting would be the best option to make them more alive.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  8. Belladonna Rose

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    This game is what you make it. Hard , easy , boring or what not. I play how i want and dont generally let others dictate how i play it within the parameters of the game. I have days i dont feeling like grinding and such....so i take a day or two off. To me alot of it is the community. I have made many many friends throughout the game. Some i see occasionally some i spend alot of time with. I love the storyline content...i love the side quests and such. Crafting is a pita but i generally only craft what i need. The dungeons stuffs is a pita too but i am into it and having fun with it. Watching the livestreams of Atos and many others gives me a laugh and giggle and the player made events gives me the opportunity to meet new folks. Tavern Tuesday and such are fun. So like i said....Make it work for yourself ....and just have fun
     
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  9. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    All I know about the Kobolds is that I purchased one of their Tesla Rifles off a vendor for 5000gp in Britany some time long ago, brought it home and found I couldn't mount it on a wall or place it anywhere, yet I could place in in a box inside my windmill in Wizard's Rest. Upon returning to the game some days ago from a lengthy time away, I was shifting things around trying to take inventory of all of my what being where, when suddenly I picked up the rifle and couldn't put it back. It had become stuck in my pack and now says it's a quest item.

    :eek: I agree with @Arkah EMPstrike about the voice acting. I think it would bring many characters to life.
    Now I have to wonder what quest will come or if I'll ever be able to rid this thing out of my backpack o_O~TL~
     
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  10. Brass Knuckles

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    Thanks for taking the time to post, for me..

    A) not important
    B) hate story games
    C) like grindy games well ones that requires lots of time to build out a toon properly anyways.
     
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  11. Astirian

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    For me:

    A) Most important.
    B) Most important.
    C) I hate grind. So I don't.

    :)
     
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  12. Sean Silverfoot

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    Loving the game, play most days. I'm immersed in my char, he is not perfect and I don't worry about grinding, I just play relaxed every day.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  13. Sentinel2

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    I was playing relaxed until I met the Lich of the Mound the other day. Scared the hell outta me. And I wasn't fully buffed yet when he confronted me.

    It was a bit of a battle. All by myself without support. I'm pleased to announce he was dispatched. Making it safe once again for new outlanders joining us in Novia.

    No promises whether he will return. I recommend entering Deep Ravenswood with friends. Just in case...
     
  14. redfish

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    I hate grind, so I don't unless I can't avoid it. And I've had to do a lot of grinding just to raise igg and crafting mats. But on the other hand, without the grind there isn't much gameplay, and I'd rather the core gameplay be less grindy so I could enjoy it more.

    @dayero

    Yea, I'm basically where you're at, and I think your three points are related...

    Its hard to have a discussion about 'immersion' anymore because the word has been made toxic. But I think it's unfortunate. For me, immersion is just the equivalent of storytelling in a gaming environment. If you're writing a story or script for a movie, you do world-building, create detail and consistency and atmosphere, and nurture a suspension of disbelief, and you present this in a way that pulls in the audience. The same is needed for a game in order to build a world in which stories can be told -- by that I mean stories created by the players going on their own adventures in the game environment.

    This is why a lot of the players coming from an Ultima background care about it so much -- particularly coming from the single-player games -- because Ultima games were largely about storytelling, having been inspired by classic RPGs.

    Players have lots of different opinions on immersion. On one hand, I think some people will have too strict standards and see any break from their standard of purity as "immersion breaking." But, on the other hand, people who say immersion is not at all important for a game I think are like people who would say storytelling is not at all important for a book, IMO. Some players will try to express a middle ground and say its "nice to have", but IMO that's also like saying storytelling is "nice to have" for a book. Also, immersion is also not the same thing as realism, which isn't necessarily bad, either; IMO realism in games is just a stylistic choice, as it is in creating a book or movie, too. Personally, I think Ultima was more that way than the other, and it benefited from it.

    But to be honest, it looks like some players only expect SotA to be a chat environment or social environment, and just want to go in and grind and socialize. They don't really care about SotA from a solo player's perspective. But that doesn't create a very compelling game. Players will always be asking for "more content" because they keep grinding through the game content and then get bored, and that's where most MMOs are today. I've made the point that if you look at the player base of the average MMO, I think you'll find most players play solo most of the time. Not that they never do MP, but basically 90% of their time in game is solo. And a lot of players will just quit when they exhaust the story content, because there's not more to do except grind. If they'll stay around long enough, they'll do social and PvP stuff -- but first you have to get players to stay around long enough to do that stuff.
     
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  15. Yolo SoLive

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    I'm still having fun.
     
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  16. Nevyn Waldail

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    I'm still having fun but I understand the points made, comparing SOTA to the Ultima games is a little unfair as it's now mainly an MMO. Comparing it to UO might not be much fairer, we are in a world with much greater expectations than back then.
    However, I never ran out of content in UO, the original top end content was still hard fully trained and a challenge. Perhaps the SOTA system of allowing people to get ever more powerful just means you'll always run out and it'll always be a grind (UO had it's grind too). That combined with the fact that you probably need to train far too many skills to be efficient with no clear design builds focusing on a few skill trees. UO was classless but we all built "classes", you don't really do that cleanly or clearly in SOTA
     
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  17. Time Lord

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    :D "I'm still having fun too! ":D~TL~

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  18. Spungwa

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    I don't consider my build what i train, my build is the deck and gear I use. So if i only ever used one deck/gear type I don't think i would have to train much.
    I have only trained so many skills so that I can change build, as different builds are better and worse at different things. This is no different than any other MMO where you train alts, but without having to train the alts and any of changing character grief.


    Regards
    Spung
     
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  19. Nevyn Waldail

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    I think that makes you the Mr. Benn of SOTA
     
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  20. Violette Dyonisys

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    I mean his point is 100% valid, that is the beauty of SotA, the fact that if you put enough time and effort you can be what you want! For me, it comes down to : Chaotic Trident guy when I'm solo, pulling out the dual spears or halberd when boss fighting solo, with a group I will either pull out my crossbow if I'm with newly arrived avatars, or a spear and shield if we are fighting tough bosses and we dknt have another tank, and if we do have a tank, I go back to my Chaotic build with a bunch of debuffs. I have not invested points in swords, light armor, bludgeons, sun magic (apart from blind) nor moon magic, nothing in taming, and only train intelligence in the focus tree. I build where I want to, and where it makes sense for me.

    Now if you go around building everything you either A have a lot of time, B, want to do absolutely everything, or C feel the pressure to do it, and then you dont enjoy the game because you are doing what others say works, not what you have figured out for yourself, and that's the part where people burn themselves out or have big rants about requiring all the skills. It isn't a necessity, it should simply be a goal you work towards if that's for you.

    And if you think it stops me from doing content, you are wrong, I do every single thing I want to do, and If my build cant work it alone, I get friends for an enjoyable time.
     
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