The 4 Principles of Balanced Combat: And my thoughts on PVP R8

Hi Chris,

thanks for the answer.
I really like this fresh take on combat and how you have to adapt to different situations and how you have to strategically create your decks.
But still one problem remains: When you train to fight you learn not only what types of attacks and what defensive skills to use but also when to use them. The aspect of when to use a certain counterattack is taken out of the game with the card system we have now. You may be a skilled warrior that knows many "moves" but you cannot purposefully use those skills. Right now it's more like you use what skill comes to mind the quickest and not what skill would be an ideal (counter)attack. If you know what I mean.
Is there some idea you have to bring this element into the game? My idea was to have skills locked into the taskbar so that you can use them whenever you want but that the effect this skill has is determined by the cards that are drawn. So you can use a thrust on purpose but then the cards would decide what kind of thrust is performed (with you maybe being able to quickly select between several options that come up).
Please don't get me wrong. Generally I am very happy about the deck combat system and basically it is really fun - and I also hope that it stays in the game. It's just that the aspect of you not being able to use certain (counter)attacks or skills on purpose is a bit strange, as normally you would be trained on when to use a certain skill.

 

I must say I love the cards!
I have found that it deepens the forethought into plan, the reactionary vs the thoughtful. I too have found myself in this same position, though I adjusted my thinking more away from the reactionary *looks down at the cards, waits for the right moment*. I now prefer my cards to pop up like popcorn while leaving in the normal unmodified speed.

The cards have added a new dimension to combat gaming which "I believe" more reflects the realities of multifaceted random life, which makes me wonder...
"what other things we could apply or or add another deck of cards to in our game, because they are so much fun!"
~Time Lord~

 

Perhaps the focus skill tree could allow for something in between a locked-skill and a completely random card drawn. Classify each card as an attack, pro-active defense, counter, heal, etc and then let us assign a slot to that type of card. For example I could assign skill 1 as a counter skill, which would randomly pick between the Douse and Get Out Of Stun cards in my deck, but never draw an attack or heal card in that slot.

 

Is there a skill that would make the enemy lose target on you? I would love to use it against mages that use the fire elementals.

 

That would be interesting. A focus skill that determines if you can lock a certain amount of skills to the hotbar. Maybe at first it would only be one skill and it would not last very long. The more skill points you spent on this focus skill the more slots in the hotbar you can lock and the longer this lock lasts.

 

random stuff have to be taken out of combat in my opinion

thought the deck is just a icon hotbar where you put your spells and melee combat attacks inside but that it will generate those attacks randomly wtf

maybe just me but i would never play a game if it not have proper melee combat combos . if it is more luck then skill if its target baised and you not have to aim common that is so 1992 !!!!
such a combat system maybe fitted the old uo games on the commodore 64 or atari !!!!


every single aspect of luck have to be removed to make combat good , or you want to make a game where everyone is same good in pvp because u need no skill ??? a game without progamers streaming is boring , love to watch them what moves they will make and how they can read the enemys and not that oh i had luck with my random deck. that would make me more rage then it is fun for me if i would die because of crappy picked cards i got.

 

I wouldn't say that.
Imagine fighting someone and you want to do a really hard thrust. You have learnt how to do this thrust and you also know when to use it. But there is always a certain unpredictability to it. Will the thrust work as I want it to? Maybe I could slip or stumble etc. So there is definitely room for some sort of randomness in combat but combat should also let you choose which skill you want to use and when. Just the outcome of using this skill may be unpredictable and therefore an element of randomness would come into play which I think is very interesting.

 

i would like it much more if the decks are a selection of the melee combos you can use with your weapon, mixed with the magic spells out of the magic scools you learned.
when there are combos with butoom clicking for excepple to make a melee combo you have to press f1 to select your melee como to start it , and then you have to press qe123 to make the combo, you could combine it with a spell if you click 45 or 6 , if you click at the right time the last swing connect (the spell) the spell have no cast time and will be added to the combo as combo ender.

every of those keys qe123 are a swing of the combo and for every key you have certain ammount of time to click it (but you must me in melee range or the combo cancels)
so you have to use 2-3 buttom click combos for fast moves and long 5-6 key combos when someone is stunned or rooted

 

maybe add those 3 types of shield defencive of age of conan that you can swap defence from right to left and upwards, so the enemy cant spam one combo but think about it, when someone put all his shield defencive on left side you wont want to make attacks from left or combos with a lot of left swings.

or even better make 3 types of blocks mid left right , and 3 different attacks steb ovcerhead you cancel with mid block left swing with left block and right swing with right block.

if someone lands an auto attack he will have the ability to start a melle combo.

doesnt matter what you add but make it tactical and skillfull and not random

 

Same thing all day and all night long ..... no way buddy. Now we got the cards system. I love it !

Ur a good PvPlayer in a easy clic 1, 3, 5, 1, 2 and 1 again ? Now, u need to be better. Deal whit what u get man and try to get my head befor i crush u like a %#!&.

Keep u head up and enjoy the new system.

Balance ll come at time.

Fun, fresh, and GOD yes, CHALLENGE !

We got a solid core !

Cant wait R9 !

 

I think it was actually, towards the end balanced pretty well.

There are always going to be people that haven't played enough pvp to "figure it out yet".

There were certainly times where I was completely destroying people that I knew just hadn't had enough time with the system or hadn't gotten good enough gear. I know those people had some humbling experiences.

And there were times everyone ganged up on me and killed me. The moral of the story is, ride with a posse.

Against the good players, the best ones could consistently beat me 1 on 1, but in group it was different, depended on group strategies.

I know it will evolve, but tend it like a delicate flower. It's pretty good right now.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. But I think it's going to be important that we lean towards letting people get away if they don't want to fight.

Right now all the running speeds are the same, and if you put your weapons away you can run just a tad faster. I think that's a balance that allows people that don't want to fight a chance to escape. I know I did that a few times when I was really injured or just wanted to see if I could do it - and most of the time it worked.

 

I risk sounding like a fanboy, but you took the words right out of my mouth. That is exactly right. All concerns aside, this was a massive success.

I hope the passion and the effort is still there for the dev staff to make the improvements on the combat system to make it more balanced, but I hope the effort to do so is based on how well it turned out, and how good they are doing, rather than trying to prove us naysayers wrong.

The negative pressure is off, the devs should feel really darn good about this system, and I hope they continue in their efforts (with the same vigor), minus the pressure of wondering if the community is going to hate it... because this is great stuff.

 

I think this is an example of a learning experience rather than a design flaw. They may make it possible to lock in a card for the next release, but even in R8 if you are sneaking up on somebody you can be managing your bar. If you see 4 healing spells show up you should be clicking off the first two that came up (because those are the first to go), and this will make room for other cards.

This is more of a PvP experience issue. Sneak up on somebody but mold your deck as it is happening. You should set the deck to dealing really fast so when you click something off it starts dealing new cards to you asap.

Also you might want to consider only having no more than 3 heal spells in your deck, instead of 5. They will still come up, but they won't take up your whole bar in a strange dealing of cards. This means if you are smelling trouble you would then cancel out the first dealt "extra" combat moves if you think you might be needing a few heals to show up. THey will show up too. I've done this.

 

one thing I would like to see is over time PvP isn't just a free for all jumble of people killing one another. There should be consequences for murdering a person in cold blood. Serial killers should be shunned by shop keepers in reputable towns, and they should have to avoid being seen by guards (and bounty hunter PvPers).

Let the serial killers be able to do business with shop keepers only in towns like SLUM, and other towns like Buc's den.

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Also we need a way to sort of have an instinct of who is our allies and who might be more dangerous. If we have allies that is. Guildmembers will likely be obvious to us, so will party members. If there is a faction system that will be clear too. However there will be evil murderers in this game and not only should there be real consequences to prevent grey characters switching to evil because it is easier.

If I beat up all the jerks at my work, I would get fired. That is a real deterrent. I've actually considered throwing a gut punch on a particular person, and if there were no laws I WOULD HAVE DONE IT. It is only realistic that there be consequences for cold blooded murder outside of guildwars and factions.

 

Been fun, but that's my cue.

Congrats Chris, wish you guys all the luck in the world.

 

There already is a direct skill to counter stun and stuff it's in heavy armor.

 

What about people in light or medium armor?


Here's another good example of a skill tree that should have an escape from a root... the rogue/subterfuge skill set: There should be an "escape artist" maneuver. This could be used for anything that requires escaping such as chains in a prison, to slipping out of a root. So it could be in our combat deck, and on our toolbar.

An Escape artist type skill would likely be hindered by heavier armor.

So that would even things out for the skill trees. There's knights grace that is quick recovery from anything, then theres rogue skills like "escape artist", and uncanny dodge that can provide protection from being flanked, and being caught flat footed etc. Rogue skills should provide this type stuff along with the "sneak attack" skills, and pick lock skills.

Since this is a classless game we could then choose to pick up some rogue skills ... which are basically street smarts skills at the basic levels.

There should always be more than one way to accomplish the same thing.

 

Yeah. I agree but you can already escape from a root quite a bit if you time it right already...