The Hard Caps and Tree limit Thread

Well, I think, the intention of Stundorn was it, to prevent the thread could be closed because of behavior of some forum members - like in past threads ...

 

I dont think compromise is allways bad.
But this is regarding MP, Economy and PvP bad. I dont know how to explain that.
A compromise in this case is just bad.

You need to know i look at this only because of open world pvp and economy (crafting, selling, trading).
It need to be something meaningfull and fair to make it fun. It's a Game.
Fairplay = Fun.
Favoritism = unfair = not fun.
I'm unable forever to partake in such high numbers. Am i locked out because it requires 5000 hours of grinding to partake?
Nice, then i reached all i can and now let the adults play the more serious game i cannot afford because we have no caps and limits.
Great! MP failed so hard for me.
I socialize and i group. I am the one who calls them together, to play together and it's fun to see to go as a group, but then...
Nothing rewarding, nothing challenging.
PvP? Forget it, you need to grind additionally 3587 hrs at minimum to be competetive.

I'm not, but if they can do it they will do it.
They farm xyz Room for thousands of hours. They mine Millions of Ore's in one spot.
What do you think?

Sure? There are these Fighters what use Blades only but trained all Magic to 300 Attunement in the basement versus a practice Dummy.
They dont like it,but they do it, because they want to be strong.

Look.
Do you plan to flag permanent for open PvP?
Do you want to compete in the open sandbox?

Look at this from this point of view.
And i dont want to hear something about effort and reward. It's a Game. It's not work. It need to be a more even playfield for everybody.
All this "compromise" Regulations are artificial tries to limit and cap something.
To habe a fair game, a fair match regarding pvp all this is bad compromise.
Why not capping and limiting hard?

I say you why, because some addicted gamers and people who want effort= reward meritocracy in a game get bored.
It's only because some want endless achievements and progress instead creating a fairplay field for everybody.

I dont see it as investment.

The other can do more in the game, it's able to fight better and more stuff. He is more versatile. Therefore he got more stuff, is better equipped maybe.
He is able to switch roles.
You engage a Knight in Plate with a 2 handed weapon to end up beeing killed by a mage in robes dual wielding daggers.
Bad for immersion, bad for pvp, bad for you if you haven't branched out, bad for you if you haven't the time to skill that much.

I reported some derailing posts and try to ignore them.

 

Of course it would.
You were forced to make decisions and to specialize.

It would balance pvp and with 10 GM only affordable for everyone. Casuals may need 2 years, but it's manageable.

Now it's not.
Thats all.

 

A last few words from me, Stundorn:

I think, it is a erroneous belief, that you have more fun in this game, if you can do, what others do without investing the effort they invested.

It's like to see the big house of my neighbour and to desire.
Having the same house means not to feel happy!

The amount of skillpoints for skills > 110 is near meaningless.
So where is the problem to manage YOUR skills - may be 10-20 - and lvl them up to 100, 110 or more?

If another player has 80 skills or more at 100 doesn't mean (s)he is better in a fight or can do more in the game!

Example 1:
If someone has 100 at ALL healing spells and I just have ONE at 120 - I have an advantage.

Example 2:If someone has ALL shield spells at 100, what is the advantage in a PvP fight?
NOTHING! Because, as you know, he just can use ONE magic shield once a time!
So if MY air or water shield is at 120, I am the one with the advantage And if my opponent has all of them at 120, we're equal!

Same with weapons. It is unimportant, how much weapon trees my opponent has trained until 100 or more!
He just can USE ONE against me! Well, beside the decision to take a shield or another wepon in the off hand.

We have enough "hard" limits - like the use of only one magic shield skill - and more stuff, Chris did the last time.
For example, to prevent a player to use too much equal skills the same time!

So don't care about what others train. Don't be impressed if they have 20 or 40 GM! This means nothing, if YOU have YOUR important skills at about 100/110/120!

Focus on YOUR gameplay - not on "what other people can do".
They invested a lot of time. You can't blame them therefor ... and if they like to lvl up a lot of skills to 120 - well, it's their business, not mine. It's their time, they invested, not mine ...

It sounds like the "full wipe" discussion on launch date! What do I care, if I start a game, if there are players at Lvl 100?
All this has nothing to do with MY life now and how much fun and love and truth and courage I can enjoy ...
Well, there are people today who are older, because they were born earlier in time ... how unfair is this! Ask them, if they die 20 years earlier as you, how fair it is ...

Beside this: everybody also can drink potions, eat food and visit a shrine.
I don't like this drinking and eating stuff, but others like it. I don't have to use it!
How will you people stop to do this before meeting them in pvp?
Don't allow these buffs in PvP zones? Well, would be an idea
How prevent they use +12 weapon and +12 armor, while you just can craft +8?
Entering a PvP zone makes us naked? Well, would be an idea
And all weapons will lowered to the same effect? Would be an idea ...

Than we wouldn't need skills at all, no different kind of weapons or armor.
We just take - like in the good old times:
Health, Focus, Str, Dex, Int and everybody can lvl up after 6 months of gameplay to max. of 100.
Would this be a fair way? An interesting way? I don't think so ...

It's hard to find a one-fits-for-all solution ... that's life.

Calm down, try a cooky and a tea, it's just a game - try to find fun in yourself - not in a kind of (hard capped) game mechanism

 

Im not trying to prove your or disprove your point, the only thing im really trying to say via mastery, hard cap, soft cap id like there to be a real reason to play alts besides limiting decay.

Hard Caps worked like a champ in uo for this very thing. There might be other ways to do it here via mastery idk im open to anything that makes the alt viable.

The only reason why I +1ed the op.

This is prob and very true, people love to hate.

 

Stop thinking about investment, effort and as if it is a thing of envy ir jealousy please.

it's a thing about affordability, a thing of balance and of the purpose of MP aka interaction on a fair and even playfield.

If i meet Harald 2 handed Hammer one day and he wins i want to meet Harald 2 handed Hammer again and not Harald Halberd or Harald Highmagic.

Seems you underestimate this.
Having 2 decks one with Airshield and one with Deathshield for example makes you way more stronger in PvP.
Or switch between Ice and Deathschield.

That's my issue, i have barely some skills at 80.
Skilling Stat skills to 80 is enormous.
I had 500k xp pooled and set Int to train from 71 and i killed yellow elves with ease and my pool drains while Training.
So what i need to do. Set on untrain, grind 1-2 Million then again set it to train grind further to get the skill higher.

I'm not sure but is 1-80 = 50% of what it takes to 100 or is it 20%?
I have different informations.
But it's anyway too much.
I played around 1500 hours, thats average 2 hrs a day for 18 Month.
That's casual. I'm never catching up to be competetive without caps.
Crap!

You got me from a completely wrong point.
I dont care, im not jealous.
If they want "invest" or play 30 hrs a day and sit in front of their Screens, let them do it.
But dont let them ruin my game by beeing allowed to hang the measures that high.
It's not the powergrinder or addicts fault.
It's Portalariums fault to not be able to create an even playfield for everybody to partake regarding pvp and economy.

Ya make a good RPG SP or MP and dont try to please everyone.

I'm calm. I can find fun in the game, i just wanted to discuss if this wouldnt be create a more interesting and challenging MP experience.

 

Dont stress about feeling disadvantaged, id shoot for 80s in all trees and call it done. There is no reason only punishment going 81+ on skills yes you can squeek out a drip more damage with same gear but you also have higher focus cost per push (mages dont feel this increase) and you can pay insane decay.

At level 76 advl with a neck of civ or at 77 with a divotional buff & good gear you can do the monkey room with corpse explosion ofcource. This is imop the best non cp group xp in the game.

 

I want sandbox RPvX lategame.
I dont want grinding xyz Room or CP.
And i dont use Corpse Explosion.
I want to be an Archetype of a Mage using Air, Water and maybe additionally some Moon, Life and Sun.
I hate using fire and death.
I want to RP someone and not somewhat using whats best now.
I want Portalarium create a MP Sandbox for everyone to partake in all aspects of the game and give it a meaning and a purpose. Interaction, dependencies...
What we have is a SP grind game.

 

I cry about decay all the time but we can’t talk about that or the thread gets locked.

 

Well, Toadster, we can talk about
As you can see here, I repeated my question, you also mentioned.

As we know, Chris made changes we will get before launch - so let us stay tuned, what may come ...

Until this - I share a handkerchief with you ...

 

What we have is a game everyone can partake in all all aspects of the game... just because you feel you need to in order to succeed may be the issue. You could make a pretty viable template without fire and death, and play your character the way you want without having to limit everyone else.

 

Not true.
It want me to do an insane grind i cannot do in the time i have and i want to play.

2nd, if you dont want to discuss or make examples PRO hard caps and tree limits i asked friendly to ignore the thread and dont partake in the discussion.

You can open a new Death Decay Thread.
I'm for increasing it 10 times!

 

Stundorn,
may be you wouldn't wish this, if you were a higher Adv.lvl

 

Not true how? I would like some examples.. and please try to keep the thread productive discussing death decay might get it locked and then we would not be able to have a productive constuctive conversation about the pros and cons of hard caps.

Although I do kinda understand where you are coming from, you want to get to end game and play your character from there without worrying about advancing further and more grinding. It is a novel concept but it is still achievable with the current system. Once your skills are 80 in the major trees you are can lock your template in, only grind for exp decay and still be a productive member in groups. It about focusing on the template you want instead of thinking that because everything is available then you have to train everything. Life,water, sun can make an exceptional undead killing deck, add in Moon and you could be effective in other killing also.

 

The entire argument for caps reminds me of those pesky undead that would still keep shooting you after they died.

This horse has already been flogged to death

 

1st of all - This was planned to be a discussion for people who would like hard caps and tree limits!
This was not planned for a discussion if this is good or bad, or a dead horse or whatever.
I wanted a bubble for those who would like those changes and discuss this, agree to each other and to mutually reinforce one another.
It will neber happen and you may think then it's pointless, but then JUST IGNORE THIS THREAD - Thank you
And i dont want to find compromises about that, i just want to discuss plain and simple hard caps and tree limitations and how cool that would be.
And to find out who is on my side.
try to tolerate!!!

why i'm all the time reduced to jealousy as if i do just complain because i'm not that high-level.

To bring all skills of a tree to 80 is a lot of playtime, if you remember how slow progression is from scratch and not how fast you can bring a tree to 80 if you already can grind T5 scenes and harder.
As i said i played arond 1500 hours in 18 Month. Thats roughly 2 hours a day and that is what i call casual and i have most skills i use at 80, but still work on Stat Innates what need an enormous grind to get the 12 Million XP.
And if some have fun grinding Mage Rooms or Monkeys for hundreds or thousands of hours, than i say thats your problem, please dont make it mine too.
I want to reach one day a Level where i am competetive.
Am i competetive after 1500 hours with Level 79? NO!
I may have 500hours spent with RP chatting or decorating, but even if i had spent 1000 hours with that, wouldnt you think 500 hours of gameplay - that are 20 full days - isn't enough to then partake in all aspects of a game?
Does it need to be 5000 hours of grinding?
sorry i dont support addictive gaming or something like that and i dont care if some of the players then reach the cap in 2 weeks and bore out.
I think that's wrong measuring.

I want CAPS, because that creates an even playfield, there is still equipment what is hard to get and more important practice what is a bonus the gamers who play a lot still have.
And i want that CAPS relatively low, so that a casual gamer can reach this "endgame" level
I want limits of most skills at 80 and then having to choose 10 skills what you want to Master to 100.
Or if you refuse to have a single combat or Magic Skill, then you can bring 4 of this 10 to 120. Hardcore specializing, still a lot of grind to do that.
I doubt i could do that, maybe its already too much.
I want limits for trees to create dependencies in MP for PvE Groups and to create a real economy with harvesters, refiners ,producers, and not one can be completely self sustainable.
Thats for SP offline.


@Toadster i know the system very well. I do not need explanations.

Here is an example i did already in another thread some weeks ago.

Lets say i can play 1000hrs a year - thats around 2.5 hours a day - i may play not everyday but then have a session of 5 hours or even more.
Thats a lot, that's very much time spent for a game.

Now another hardcore grinder spent 5000 hrs a year. Thats an Average of 13.5 hrs a day. He may play one day only 10, but another day 16 hours.
Thats - eh - more
I dont want to judge or evaluate this.

Now with the System we have and people who obsessively play and adittionally have this achieving and progress mentality this creates a playfield with a wide gap i can never catch up.
Now you argument with, but its only 3 hits more from 80 to 100 or just 1 hit more from 100 to 120 or whatever. All true - its still is an advantage.
If you dont need any advntage, then do this thought experiement.
No more reward beyound 100, but you can still grind to 200, just for ther number.
Willing to do? No?
Why , its so minimal , its just one hit more the skill then does.
Please nobody annoy me with hippocrits arguments. thanks.

Lets do some math - i know you all like math
But first a question:
Waht does it need to bring a skill to 80 - half the XP it need to get to 100 or is it a 5th of the XP it need to bring it to 100?
I dont have the exact information - i allways thought it is 50%, but then someone told me its just a 5th.
the XP Spreadsheet i have is only talking about 100 - 120 - 150...
but anyway, lets say it is 50%, so if a skill needs 1.2 Million its 600k to 80 and another 600k to 100.
I sure can get xp now more easy and quicker than back in the days when i began with a fresh Character.
But the game now ask me to grind XP only to get to 100 or higher.

And where is the measure? The measure is allways ahead - how long do you want peeople to play and grind to meet the measures the highlevels create with 10+ hrs / day gaming?
And there are benefits, if there are no benefits nobody would grind and progress.
And where are we now? I read about people with skills in the 140ies. I read about people with 72 Million pooled XP (whining about decay what maybe takes him half a million sorry not understandable) We know Mac has all 200 skills at 100 and some at 140 and is constantly working to get skills to 150.
I want open PvP (RP), i dont care for tournaments, i want to run flagged - but am i masochistic to do that, if 95% of the PvPers are Level 100+?

There is no content other than grinding a handfull of scenes/ spots to et to 100 - am i dull or what?
Why do we have that, because some players who have nothing to do but playing the game 10,12,16 hours a day getting bored then? seriously?

Keep out of this thread - it's about how cool it is to be limited, to be capped, to be not able to solo everything, to be dependent on other players for many things, to roleplay together, to fight together and against each other while it is fair and based on playerskill and not how much and long someone plays!

 

hard to stay away i know - thanks for the hint and clarification ah and thanks for this very, very smart quote completely out of context - i learned something.

 

@Brass Knuckles Point is, The system allows you to personally aim for what you want, if you want a cap, then impose it onto yourself, no one is stopping you! The system is built around a deck system that limits what you can use at one time, sure you can load it with every skill, but imo it won't be effective! So what is the deal here, all I hear is players whining to cap other players, plain and simple! IMO this needs to be recognized, those that are happy with SotA generally don't bother worrying about other players, those complaining and asking for caps are worrying to much about everyone else!

 

You are taking things too seriously . Its a game none is out to ruin your experience. I strongly reccomend ..beer and less pointing people out in forum posts to justify your arguments... its not cool.

Hopefully this will bright up your day a bit.

 

Lol, ur funny wait... this was a joke right?

I'm surprised you didn't use the delete your character one that's a classic as well.

Im gonna have to start following you, you have amazing insite and say awesome things.

You could not have read my posts if you beleieve this is my stance, the game already has a hard cap its 200. I dont care about capping other player both my accounts have high level toons one of them might even be in the top 1-2%. I dont want them to even redo anything. To be honest ive no idea why your even stalking me.

Those that are happy with the game are the ones who play, invest, test, bug report, add input in areas they think might be helpful to the long term project. Those are the actions that matter not what side of the hard caps convo your on!

Im not raging against not having hard caps, I do think a viable alt system and could have been good for the game long term. I dont care how its done, hard caps is a way not the only way mastery might work. What does eps 5 look like for character slots in the games current state for char slots 2-5? Well atm exactly the same as char #1. Char 1 is all you need since virtue and everything else is shared its actually smarter just to roll another account.

Its fine if you have a different opinions just don't be foolish and think you have the only correct opinions. And it might actually be helpful if you know what your talking about. No disrespect but for some reason you think im attacking the game on just one of my accounts im pretty sure ive more time in sota and been here much earlier than you. Please find someone else to hang the not happy with sota title on because it does not apply to me. people who have been here since oct 2013 have sufficient time in as to not be included in your blanket statement. Surely if they hated or wernt happy with the game they woulda moved on by now.