The State of Loot

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Chaos Shadowstorm, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. Chaos Shadowstorm

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    Good Morning,

    I wanted to discuss or bring up a point my friend who just started playing. It seems the only gear worth getting is only found in the crafting mechanic. It doesent appear (to him at least) there are many good drops. The good gear that drops is in the form of artifacts which require a painfully inconvenient way to upgrade them. this makes me not want to bother getting an artifact because using another artifact to salvage seems like a hug pain.

    Here is my suggestions to fix the issue of player who dont want to craft, players who want to be able to find named or rare monsters to camp them for chances at good loot.

    1: There needs to be adequate gear drops for people who dont want to shell out the overpriced items people are selling.
    2: Artifacts should either not need to be repaired or the repair process should be the same at least ( remember the days when you could find loot before the non popular mechanics of item repair were introduced. Think EQ.

    It mind sound like too much of an extreme change for artifacts, but let the best gear in the game be repairable, but this game needs good droppable items, which is lacking.

    This would be the fastest way to add new loot to the game by improving items already here.

    Thats my friends biggest complaint, he isnt sure what he is working for. With Everquest, you knew you were working towards leveling to get to a higher dungeon so you can camp items from named/rare worth having. This is kind of missing.

    Other than my friends point, all is well. Interesting loot, good weapons with proc effects etc are examples of exciting loot.

    So, if we can add some named mobs in with some gear worthy of getting that would be awesome.

    Its very important for players to feel like they are getting more powerful, and the skills and spells alone dont really do a good job of showing you get stronger. Perhaps the level spread is just really broad. It seems like the game is hard enough to allow for some better gear to be dropped.

    Thanks for listening!
     
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  2. Chaos Shadowstorm

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    and yes some of us miss the days of camping rare mobs and loot with friends... all MMORPGs have now is either just being ran through a dungeon for loot, or crafted....nothing for the traditional camper of items. Getting rare mats for good gear isnt all that much incentive for many who want just a drop thats decent or with exciting properties.
     
  3. Sulaene Moon

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    It’s getting fixed. Chris said 2020 will be the year loot doesn’t suck.
     
  4. Cora Cuz'avich

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    And I've reminded him every month via twitter of how many months are left in the year. We'll see what happens. It's possible they've been working on something behind the scenes which hasn't been mentioned yet (we had no word for the longest time on maps, then suddenly, "oh hey, we've got maps figured out and we're going to start putting them in now") but I'm keeping my expectations low.

    As for good gear drops, that's probably a dead horse. "Player crafted gear is better than dropped gear" has been a foundational element of the game, it's partly why we have the weird artifact combining (as well as artifact enchanting) because then technically players are still making the best gear. It's not that it's a bad idea or that there aren't players who want it, but a good chunk of those who have stuck around and continue to support the game (think large aquatic mammals) are crafters.
     
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  5. Violet Ronso

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    The issue with statements or wishes like yours Chaos is that this game was built around the thought that gear should come from crafters, not drops. This in itself has caused issues because of the implementation of Artifacts, which some became Best in Slot, while others became very Niche, all while leaving most crafted gear in the same slot be completly outclassed in some moments (ex. Vexlyns Wand, or Dolus Hood). Now the statement of loot being way too lame is a strong one that rings ohh so true, and that is why Artifacts were added, because instead of finding a good drop system that could make things interesting, we opted for increased power through drops, à la Diablo, but only went halfway, instead of going in an entirely different direction.

    Crafters need to remain a very important part in this game, otherwise it ruins one of the most fun concepts added to Shroud of the Avatar, but loot needs to become fun and rewarding, so how can we do that? I have a few ideas I drop out every time a thread like this pops up, but the problem is, not everyone wants the same thing, and not every solution could solve all the current issues, but at least, these ones stick to the theme of the game :

    1. Garanteed Enchantments / Masterworks through common/uncommon drops

    This one is usually my favorite, by adding common/uncommon drops, like the current elf/lich/kobold/troll essences, which could then be added to the enchanting or masterworking recipe, could generate a garanteed result. This solves so many issues at the same time, first, it removes RNG from crafting, which would help regulate prices. Second, this means there is generally always something worth it dropping from fighting mobs, and this is a very important part. Third, by adding this, you now have most of the tech to also make this for bosses, meaning you could add set specific drops from bosses with a higher rarity, ex.: killing the Satyr Bosses in Tartarus could have them drop Bandit Essences to actually masterwork the bandit gear effect on normal gear.

    This solution usually means crafted gear is more affordable for everyone (including crafters and their costs), and makes the loot table filled with common/uncommon drops that actually reward them, have these be rarer on low tier mobs, like 5% drop chance from a T1 mob, and something like 75% on a T15 mob (so basically 5% drop chance per mob tier).

    Most of the tech for this is here anyways, drops, components for crafting, these are all features that already exist, only needs to be worked on a little to make sure the implementation is good, and add all the different ressources/drops to the game.


    2. Very Rare components to create super items

    This one might sound weird with the title, but it is actually a very interesting one. The idea comes from Black Desert Online, where I accidentally got a very good drop without knowing it existed. Basically, BDO has added ways to get things such as "Infinite Potions", but these are extremmely rare to get, but ohh so rewarding when you get them. The way to get it in BDO is to actually manage to get 3 exrtremely rare drops (0.005%, or 1 in 20,000 chances to actually receive the drop), and then combine those 3 different pieces (thus requires grinding in 3 different areas) to actually receive the infinite potion, which does what it is called, an infinite supply of potions.

    These infinite potions can seem very strong, but when you consider the chances to get 1 of the items, then multiply that by 3, this can result in it being a very good reward at the end of the day. Ohh and these pieces and potions are untradeable, so you actually have to work for them, making the loot rewarding. This could be added to a few of our consumables/potions, and make grinding in the same spot over and over again have a reason, justifying it and actually making it a challenge instead of just another grind session with no other reason than being the spot you enjoy right now.


    3. Crafting Daily Quests

    This one is mostly for crafters, but the side effects can actually make it great for adventurers as well. Crafter Daily Quests, which could reward with components, materials, crafter tools, basically anything that could be very rewarding for a crafter (Hey, Blacksmith's gloves, which make any smelting or blacksmithing 50% faster, know a crafter that wouldnt enjoy this?). These quests would ask the crafters to trade in specific crafted pieces, ex.: A +16 Spear with a minimum of 40 durability, or anything like this. What happens is the item traded in would then be added to the drop table, meaning adventurers now have a chance to receive this spear, which with these specifics could be VERY good, making once again loot more rewarding, but also helping out the crafters with their struggles.



    These 3 ideas are the ones that I would actually love in this game, and are not going too far away from the actual game mechanics and vision. These are suggestions that for me would make the loot table actually interesting most of the time, and actually helps more than just adventurers (heck their could even be drops for the 1st suggestion that garantee pvp specific enchants making the grind in pvp zones rewarding, helping out Player 3, Mr.PvP, enjoy the game even more as well. These also don't push us towards the Diable/WoW style, which while successful, are games I do not play and do not enjoy, keeping Shroud very special.
     
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  6. Elrond

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    Not really

    GEAR WORTH GETTING FROM LOOT DROPS

    Attunement rings are best in slot
    Neklace best in slot - warlock chain , focus battery
    Belts - are best in slot ( crafters cant even make these )
    Wands - all artifact wands/ankhs are by far best in slot reaching a ridiculous ammount of attunement like 90 /100 while crafted can only got to 25-27.
    Swords - Swashbucklers best
    Bows - Xen Penetrator , Envy bows best then any crafted bow
    Crossbows - Accuracy crossbows deals more dmg then any crossbow out there (charged attacks style)
    Bandit armor - with a whooping 60% (maybe more) bonus to weapon damage is better then any leather armor crafters can make .
    Shields - Take your pick they all have potential to be reach better stats then crafted ( very high block)
    Hammers and Axe- Torc dawl best in slot - torc blade and savage handle (from drops) can make a 68 STR 2H hammer ..crafted hammers can barely get 35 STR. Same goes for 1h.
    Fleet Flutes - Can only be obtained from loot ( with stats) ..
    Taming Gear - Can only be obtained from loot ..crafters cant make any
    Artifacts with different gathering bonuses - can only be obtained from loot - Gauntlets of lead, bmc rings and many ohers ..crafters cant make any of these either .
    Helms - Cabalist hoods best in slot

    Im sure theres many other i missed ..but as you can see GEAR from loot drops is worth getting and it is best in slot .
     
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  7. AoiBlue

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    The best drops don't appear until later in the game and they are rare.

    I agree that this might warrant some consideration. Some artifacts tageted towards beginners would greatly improve early game. Now that artifacts are in tiers, many that drop by default as "uncommon" could drop as "common" in earlier levels.

    Additionally, adding scrapping and making materials from scrap to the outskirts quests might be a good idea to help beginners get into scrapping things. Start with the whole "I don't know how you do things where you come from, but nothing around here gets wasted" lecture. You then have to go fetch a certain amount of scrap for whatever person, and you get the Make Resources from Scraps recipe set plus Quest XP and a little coin for a reward.

    Additionally, a good cooking quest added would be nice to accompany the fishing quest in Solice Bridge Outskirts.

    Finally, they should have an optional negative virtue quest where the fence in Solice Bridge Outskirts tells you about "The Fine Art of Stealing" in which you have to go swipe something from the nearby camp. You should be able to simply turn down the quest and still get the XP and a virtue boost but none of the gold reward. I have to say stealing was one of the most fun parts of the early game before I went straight and spend hours telling every NPC in Novia my name to restore my virtue.
     
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  8. AzazelReborn

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    Several months ago, some of you might remember an ex-player called Fzol, he would repeatedly ask Chris to create a standard drops(Not Artifacts), whether it's cloth, leather, chain or plate armor and weapon that would drop from mobs in the world that will have random stats on them like extra Int, Str, Dex or even skill stats. For weapon he asked if they could come with stats that useful for that weapon, like Knockdown for Bludgeon and Double Slash for Swords. Extra durability, different materials component added to these gear would create huge interest in the player base, new meta would come out of these too. These drops will be random so when a player finds a drop they are excited to see what might have dropped and what extra stats/skills it has on it. Then crafters can take it to a new limit.

    This is how drops work in other MMO and players would farm and farm them to get the right stats/skills for their specific build. Also it might not fit your build so it will create extra interests in the market. Everyone would not be wearing the same Artifact all the time.

    For me, I would say before we fix loot we need to fix crafting, specifically resource reprocessing. Before a good gear is crafted, 10s or even 100s of wasted gear happens before that. What do we do with them scrap them or vendor them. When we scrap them we get crap back and we have lost so much in doing that. Salvaging needs to be seriously fixed to give a return that is due to the player base.

    I could craft 50 piece of armor and only have 10 useful ones in the end. I will have used up hundreds of ore, or materials to get this result but if I salvage I don't get less than 1% of it back. Salvaging should give us something meaningful back. This is crucial to any crafting based game and it will help the market.

    Eve Online has a player based economy, everything up to Space Station and Titians are created and marketed by the player. If the player reprocesses anything they have build they will get back bit of the component they have used, from T1 material to T3 materials.

    Nothing is wasted, nothing should be wasted in Shroud too.
     
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  9. oplek

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    The one caveat being that, in Eve, you can lose those Titans and Stations. SOTA's economy is already down the drain because... it has no sink, as it were, outside of consumables. So salvaging more stuff back would worsen that, if it's not balanced with something like item loss, which arguably should be happening if we want something resembling an economy.
     
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  10. Chaos Shadowstorm

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    good to know, Im seeing newer items nowdays than werent in before.
     
  11. Cora Cuz'avich

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    This tweet pretty perfectly sums up why I login once a week, refresh my vendors, then decide to go do something else.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Violet Ronso

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    I agree, spending more than 35 minutes and receiving nothing is probably the most insulting thing ever, and is pretty much the reason I ignore new scenes, which is a stupid mentality. Ohhh, what about lamechs Bazaar? Does loot scale now?
     
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  13. Luno

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    We are still waiting for the shadow mobs loot, and i hope lord british Castle will get some too
     
  14. Chaos Shadowstorm

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    This thread can probably be closed now. They have addressed that they are working on it.
     
  15. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I don't think we're getting shadow mob loot beyond what we get now. It's already weird they drop potions and scrolls. Fixing shadow mob loot should be easy. Presumably, they are "corrupted" animals. They should drop animal drops (eyes, legs, silk, suet, wolf heads, etc.), maybe corpse wax, and about a 25-50% chance of a shadow essence. To balance that with the potions, the pots should require about 4 times as many essences to make. Mathematically, a 25% chance at something you need 40 of is identical to a 5% chance of something you need 8 of.* But which one makes you feel like you're accomplishing something?

    However, we are not likely to get that, nor an explanation as to why they feel the s*** loot they currently drop is adequate. I suppose I can sort of understand why they don't drop animal bits (no skinning) and why they drop gold and wax (because they are ghostly, and therefore have ghost loot) but understanding why does not make it good.

    Of course, if this were a bigger and better game, they'd be skinnable, drop shadow hides which can be used to make stealthy armors, and pristine shadow heads/legs for making cool mounted shadow trophies or shadow spider cloaks with that cool shadow effect. Then nobody would likely be complaining about the quality of loot they give. But that would be effort. Reskinning current models with a cheap special effect and hooking them up to the ghost loot table is way easier.

    *In the event my math is wrong, as I am not an expert on probability, I feel my example still gets my point across, even if the numbers are inaccurate.
     
  16. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Yeah. For about four years now.
     
  17. Grumpy Krabnevir

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    I literally LOL'ed at the accuracy of that statement.
     
  18. Violet Ronso

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    Considering their XP rates and the power of the potions and poison you can craft from their essence, Shadow Mobs have felt fine for me.
     
  19. Cora Cuz'avich

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    True. It's not like you get nothing from killing them. But XP is good elsewhere; and the loot is better too. So given a choice between good XP or, good loot and good XP, there's little reason to specifically choose Spindelskog. Which means devs spent valuable time on a part of the game few people have any use for. If they had 50 people working on the game, that might be alright. But instead, they had List spend a month or two or three designing an area that could have been significantly more useful with very little extra effort.
     
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  20. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Overall it's not that the game is bad, but it could be so much better.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020