This game is so focused on making crafting rewarding that it makes adventuring feel pointless.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aetrion, Sep 7, 2019.

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  1. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    No idea.

    That has no upper bounds. I'm not advocating for skill caps or against, but it is a good point that designing for infinity is infinitely long.
     
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  2. Cordelayne

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    Exactly, it is an untenable position for developers given the best of circumstances; never mind one with limited bandwidth and resources.
     
  3. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    I understand that it can feel like you can never "catch up" but, as I alluded to in my earlier post not using special gear, it's just not the case. I started seriously trying to better my avatar in R68, when attenuation was doubled, and I'm now at a wall. It's not a hard wall but it's a wall nonetheless. My avatar will not become significantly more powerful unless I start using special gear. I know that some people don't like the idea of not having a hard limit but others like the idea of constant improvement, even if that improvement is eventually inconsequential.

    As for balance, there's no such thing as a truly balanced MMO. No MMO that I have ever played was truly balanced (or even close really), including UO. Also, gear in this game makes for (by far) the widest gap in balance. I suggest you try as I have and stick to add-on/reward gear and see just how far high level skills will get you.
     
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  4. Aetrion

    Aetrion Avatar

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    A really fundamental problem with infinite systems is that humans aren't actually entertained by infinity either. The human brain is a pattern recognition machine, it doesn't matter if you create a system that theoretically has infinite content, unless it has an infinite variety of content you're still going to get bored of it. That's why at the end of the day the only way to keep an MMO running is to have a large enough player base to fund ongoing content development.
     
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  5. Cordelayne

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    This is a fair point, but what if that constant improvement took the form of true specialization within your capped; yet favored skill set that is also truly balanced collectively? Meaning you could GM a limited number of skills, requiring dedication and fortitude to accomplish, but in the end it actually "meant" something and wasn't inconsequential in it's application within the game world? In such a manner you could accommodate both casual and hardcore gamers; allowing for each player type to find growth and enjoyment in their respective manner of play.

    Wouldn't such a system be preferable to one that constantly needs to be balanced and alienates certain demographics of the player base?
     
  6. DavidDC

    DavidDC The New Guy Moderator SOTA Developer

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  7. Superbitsandbob

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    The game has a lot of issues with balance but it has been pointed out already that you do not need anywhere near those numbers you quote and most players power does not come from expensive artifacts. So is the game being designed around those players? What is the evidence for this?

    Many players experience, my own included, would be that my Int is half of what you quote and my attunement is about 150 points less. I can do a lot of content but there is still some that is beyond me but not loads of content. There is not an abundance of scenes out there for only the super rich. Much of the content is in that dead zone of 2-4 skulls where it hardly gets visited. That is a bigger problem, lots scenes that no ones goes to as it is fairly easy to get to a point where you just bypass them.

    I'm not a fan of the limitless system but I don't recognise the game you are describing either. There is a the top small percentage of players who are like gods but in reality, are spending all of their time farming the same content over and over again because there is little else for them to do.
     
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  8. Aetrion

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    There aren't any scenes for those characters right now, that's correct, but it still makes it impossible for the devs to develop any kind of meaningful content progression when having tons of money makes a character twice as powerful.
     
  9. Mac2

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    I am on a basic account, I have never bought cotos to sell for coin, I have never bought coin. I did spend some money get alt accounts before it became f2p. I Think I am the top level player in the game at base level 138 and it was all through hard work and friends helping. I am proof you do not need money to become powerful, you just need time and dedication.
     
  10. Aetrion

    Aetrion Avatar

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    I'm talking ingame money. Sure, you can attain that money through grinding. That's how it's made before anyone buys it with cash anyways. Whether you have to spend hundreds of dollars or thousands of hours to attain something ingame is irrelevant though. If it's more than the vast majority of your audience is willing to invest you're alienating customers either way. It doesn't matter if they feel excluded by a lack of time or money, they still go play something else that respects them more.
     
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  11. Chatele

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    well, ADVENTURING is boring because, it is just plain boring as all hell. Adventuring to me involves exploring new and exciting areas, with new and exciting mobs that are diff. from all the other scenes, and fun discoveries, and caves to explore and dungeons where all can enter solo or not, etc., with exciting loot in hidden chests that spawn in diff. locations, etc so on and so forth. JMHO and all this is what this game lacks....
     
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  12. Sulaene Moon

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    This is probably true for people who have done and seen everything the game has to offer and have been here the longest. I'm just a few months in with limited play time and there is still a bunch of places I haven't seen yet. There are a few I wish I could unsee but that's a totally different topic. That said I'm sure in the next few months I will have seen and done everything at least once. Which is why I am hoping for Ep2 very very soon, so that way when I have completed Ep1 content there should be less bugs for the new things and places I see & do in Ep2.
     
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  13. Bow Vale

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    I agree, that's why i have always argued for hard caps. In fact it is much more fun getting the best build for a point allocation than it is maxing everything.
    With regard my powerful character as you put it. I've said and shown by figures on an earlier post to you that's just because my attunement is high and my intelligence is also it does not mean that is optimal play, far from it and thus my character is not powerful really, it just seems that way as you are making assumptions on what that attunement and intelligence is doing, especially in sun class.

    I agree again. No hard caps and a classless system makes it nigh impossible to balance.

    Agree agian...APART from the part when you state that my stats are extreme. If they are extreme but contribute basically nothing to my school then it is not op and being extreme is really no relevance.


    I do understand your basic argument of real extreme power by the hardcore players and leaving others behind , which really isn't me. Up to 2 months ago i have made 360mill xp ish in 3 years, level 108, i have bene doing UT a lot recently and now have made more xp in 2 months than i did in 3 years. I always held back from doing that type of content as i felt it was cheap and really turned the game into a grindfest. Although i do like grinding, when the treadmill is never ending then the game will only ever suit the people who play constant and thus is unattractive for any new or casual players. Believe it or not i have always voiced in favour of new players and making the game attractive to them, which the game has failed to do.

    I don't disagre with many of your ideas, i never have. What i have been disagreeing with is your exaggeration of the facts to suit your argument. You still ahve not shown how my high attunement and intellligence( psst it could be 385 attunement and 350 int quite easily as i need some more player crafted gear and can put more points into Sun) is making my character overpowered. You haven't because you cant. Your argument and stated figures to give credence with regard the Sun tree has always been flawed, and if i see something that i know to be false and paints something in a false light (Sun tree as i play it and know so i can voice) i will argue the point.
     
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  14. Khal Drogo

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    Many of us love this game . Im sure the team has tons of pleasant surprises for us in the future .

    As for you Aetrion i play the game for years but never seen you say as little as Hello in chat. So do you even play the game or just the forum ? And which forum do you enjoy playing most this one or the reddit section ? Do you guys rotate when posting here ? It seems least once a month one of you shows up and tries to stir the pot .... you made like 30 posts in this thread so far and they all about how much you dislike /almost hate the game . Im all for constructive feedback ..but all you bring to the table is fake stuff about the game ( as already proven by others here ) and alot of rage .

    You know what you need to do next .......
     
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  15. Vladamir Begemot

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    He plays, I know him in game.
     
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  16. Aetrion

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    I've seen characters with similar stats running life attunement clear out entire UT waves in a single banish. I have no reason to believe the results would be any different once sun gets an AoE attack. Maybe you'll have to cast it twice because the base damage will be less extreme, but it will still be incredibly strong. I've also seen fire mages with a mere 250 attunement completely demolish entire hordes of enemies by just putting their ring of fire on the ground. They can't get their attunement and intelligence as high since they lack an equivalent item to ankhs and don't have an int buff that scales with their attunement. Enlightenment alone would be overpowered coming from your character. Sure, it's not overpowered in the sense that you're single handedly killing everything, but giving a huge int and crit chance boost to any caster in the party makes everyone else far more powerful.

    I just don't see how it could possibly not be overpowered. I've seen characters with extreme attunements cast damaging spells and completely obliterate entire rooms full of enemies, and you're telling me a character that also boosts their own intelligence and crit chance by a huge amount, as well as doing the same favor for those others characters is somehow going to be balanced? Not buying it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  17. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    I've done at least one run in UT virtually every day since they put it in game.
    I have never seen anyone 1-shot an entire wave spawn.
    Any chance you could talk to whoever it is that you are referring to, and ask if I could witness them do that ?
     
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  18. Aetrion

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    Well, I have a whole combat log full of stuff like this. If you want to contact him and ask about his build go right ahead. Just don't give this person any grief because you call people liars on the forum if they don't show the receipts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
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  19. Bow Vale

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    It is a support class. It can give crowd control and can give an int buff. That int buff is much less when given to others than their self. The class lacks its own overall power to give a group help and really then it does not offer much help.

    I do UT solo often. I can clear 2 waves and attenuate in under 30 mins by self. I do have Legendary Ankhs, but i don't use them as i don't want the durability to be dropped. I use 1 ankh(rare) and a shield. I can do it just as well in practise with a normal ankh and i can also do it just as well with a well made wand. Id likely bebale to do it with a crappy one as well or not even life specced. Even with 2 Legendary Anks i have never wiped an entire wave and yes have Life Attunement spec'd and have 330 attunement if i wish to use dbl Leg Ankhs. If i six stack banishing ray i can get over 1000 damage on one or 2 mobs at best, once, and then it is back to single stack, much less damage. Stacking Life attunement or being Life Specced is not needed to do UT in any reasonable time. In fact i couldn't do it solo if i didn't have a shield equipped, in this case more damage is not that beneficial to the overall purpose, completing it in a reasonable time and keeping alive.


    Clueless at best, an antagonist at worst. You see what you WANT to see is your issue. You are basically STILL making stuff up with no prove apart from what you SAY it is without any proof, or even explanation why. It just is, because it is according to you, while i have given you figures to explain why not.

    Hard work and playing the game should be rewarded, if you had your way it seems everyone would be equal and playing the game and raising stats by skills or loot/equipment would be hardly worth it. This is a RPG.There is a need for players to start of low and gain overtime. Personally i am tired of answering or even now reading your blatant attempts at id even go as far to say ruination of the game under the premise of making it better and fair.

    Like you im not buying, but not it, but you. And although as stated before i agree fundamentally with not overpowering characters you have an agenda based on your clouded or even say jealous view of others. Not buying you...hop off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  20. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Wow, it's Pyro you're talking about. Interesting.... I'll ask him, he's in my guild.

    You're saying that I called people liars for not showing receipts here on the forums - is that right ?
    Mind pointing to one of my posts where I have done this ?
     
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