Time And Effort

Perhaps i was A little hasty in my words, but I just dont like the thought of all my and others hours upon hours of hard work to be negated in some way

 

@HogwinHD

i know you are a good guy - its not against you - absolutely not!!!

 

Thank you for saying that, All i want at the end of the day is for people to get along and peoples hard work not be under valued .

 

totally understandable and i dont want your hands cut - i'm just arguing to make things you have accomlished with many hours, knowledge of the game and sure playerskill reachable to "everyone" who's willing to "work" on a moderate level for it.
You cannot disagree, if i say you did more than the normal player and had more time to do this than the 0815 casual gamer.

only this

 

Oh so you cant beat that 300 hp pvp guy that just started 3 days ago? Oh, you don't know how to create an item and put an item on a vendor? Can you start to see how you only want to compete against the top players, you know the whole 20 of them, and not to concerned with being able to compete with the other 1000 players. And not only do you want to be able to compete with the top 20 pvper, you as well want to be able to compete with the top 20 crafters at the same time. Oh and did I mention that you don't want to grind to be able to do it.

Can you start to understand that from my perspective, it just looks like your a player that wants it all for free handed to them on a silver platter?

So no new players ever join a game that others are already high level in? I wonder how I keep seeing new players in other games I have played. I wonder why I joined a game that already had top level players a few times? Could it possibly be, I just found the game fun and desired to play it? OMG what a concept, playing a game for fun, and even though I could not fight the top level people for 2 years, I still continued to play, HOLY COW, it did not seem to matter to me as long as I was having fun.

Is this nerf going to only effect the high level players, or is it going to effect everyone? Remember what happened when a few casual players complained about the high level people doing control points? Control points got taken away effectively closing the door behind us. This did not hinder us high level people able to do them as much is it hindered those who were about to be able to do them. Now what happened when those same casual players starting wanting the decay system implemented to try and slow down the high level players? it hurt them WAY more as being casual and dieing once took the very few hours of play you had gained away, while us who just kept playing lots, did not get hit as bad as once we had died, the decay was reset and we just played more hours afterwards to compensate. Thankfully this is being changed to only involve in game time spent and not real time, as that made it so much worse for a casual player.

Considering that no one is even close to achieving the same exp it takes to get a single skill to 200 yet, even gust, the cheapest skill in the game requires 8 billion exp, yet you think people should be capped out.

Many nerfs have come, just remember, they have hurt the casual player more then the power gamer.

Why does someone being higher level then you make your effort less enjoyable? Either you enjoy it or you don't, and if you are not enjoying it, I have to ask, why are you playing a game you are not enjoying?

 

thats exactly what i want to have - and we both looking at it from opposite ends - somewhere in the middle lies the truth!!!

i'm not perfect or claim to be the guy who knows it all better - your input and knowledge and my input from my experience are the points to the devs to find a moderate middle to match all players.

 

if thats what you are hearing, than all appologies, but thats not what i wanted to say or want to be.
Ok, i'm ready to make compromises and learn - maybe my spelling inflicts that, but then its maybe because i dont know to say it better in english - i'm not used to writre english, i'm just get used again since many years, when i start writing here in these forums.

 

Its not your spelling or english, its the fact you want the game to cater to your life/playstyle, and want to hinder others who don't share your life/playstyle.

 

true

help me - we need more players i can compete with - i just see powergamers, pwergrinders, higlevels - maybe i have a problem what i'm percepting, maybe i read to much the forum at the boring office day and cannot play

should buy a good laptop and play instead

 

But I'm too busy forums posting! I admit it... it's why I still suk

 

new aproach

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/scholar-searching-for-grandmaster.89306/

 

Not to single you out, but this way of thinking might be giving someone tunnel vision. If you harp on what was written or spoken about 3-4 years ago, for a process that is evolving, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Every single game ever made (never mind MMO's) goes through an evolution. There is NO game out there that started out with A, B and C goals and actually ended up with A, B and C goals. Things change. Things evolve.

While I understand the desire to have things the way they may have originally been stated, it is unrealistic to hold "feet to fire" so to speak. One has to be willing to adapt to change, to compromise and accept change, and to try to work with that change. If not, then it is perfectly acceptable to move on to something else.

I see these guys online all the time. They are not AFK grinders (in fact, one of our guildies regularly logs off when he is AFK). They don't hack or exploit like many might think. They put in a crazy amount of time into the game. And some of them are SUPER helpful to people they don't even know. This is the beauty of these people, they give out great advice about the game and help when needed.

 

Of course I think that those who put time and effort in the game should reap the benefits of doing so and not be penalized for it - but, I also think that players who are still developing their character and attempting to work through the game should have more of a variety of things to do so they don't feel like they're missing out on higher level play since they simply haven't put in the time and effort that others have. Maybe those of us who are lower level think things "unlock" at higher levels and become more fun? Not sure, since I'm not there?

I know more quests are coming, but is that going to be the full scope of the game? As someone who probably isn't going to be able to grind up to many GMs, I'm just wanting additional content to do to have fun besides grinding whether that be grinding skill or grinding crafting - I don't find grinding is SOTA fun. I could grind all day in Black Desert because the combat was fun, but anyway, back to topic; I do think players of all levels here can group together/pvp together it's just a matter of finding like leveled players. To me, the question isn't level related, it's content related in general.

 

@Stundorn; I wish I could help you though we have different playstyles. I wish the others would also help you instead of slamming your point of view. I felt just like you did a few months back when I was about to give up swords and make a cookie cutter build then I asked the experts for help right here on this forum and it helped. Maybe a different tactic can work. How about you ask an expert in the build you are trying to make give you some pointers like I did.

I thank two people in this game more than others. 1) Sara Dreygon who took the time to show me swords can be fun and viable. 2) Bow Vale for trying to show me how to work the Rise even though I was not prepared. It motivated me to get better.

As far as the rest of you that are slamming Sturndorn, how about you try to point him to someone who can assist him be more viable and enjoy the game.

By the way. Except for the much appreciated advise from those mentioned above I did it all by myself and will one day be able to solo the Rise and other instances without asking people to invite me.

So Sturdorn, I am sure you will find a mentor just like I did and when you do just have an open mind brother. In the long run you will be able to enjoy the game as much as I am right now and be self sufficient like I am.

*Gets off the soapbox*

R/Boris/El Pirata

 

Im on mobile so i cant really go to much here.

But the dif between playing sota with an established char, and playing other games with established char, is a pretty significant.

Most games use a blatent level system, and have tierd content for those levels.
Most games i could make a new char and aim for a different class, to level with a friend say. Or pvp in level based pvp.
Most games i could craft LEVEL BASED gear, and not try to use the same materials and cost of materials, to make shittier gear, and hope someone buys mine instead.

Your crafting argument isnt good.. becauuse why would a new player buy a bow from me, with garbage bonuses over you with the high end bonuses? Theres not enough of a gap there for sota for that to make sense.. the high end guy is usen the same amount of materials, only dif is the added bonuses are better.. so he can sell it for the samw price. Time vs base mats.


Anyways tho. No i disagree with you, and yhe fact i have 7 or 8 people i play games and new games with regularily every weekend, and no one will touch this game due to ( and i admit mostly pvp ) being a MASSIVE time dump .. instead of playing people matches up based on skill level... yea i hold to my post.

I dont belive there shouldnt be advanyages to putting more time in the game, but other games have real solutions to this exact issue. Sota to me doesnt seem to.
Or you know maybe im wrong.. and their early tests of what 20% new players who tried game played more then 2 hours? Maybe that 20% stuck around and didny just bail at 2.5
Maybe their format will hold enough intrest *shrug* i just dont see it.

Anyways. There is some solutions to the issues which they a tually acknowledged in post mortem . So thats neat.

Something like a pvp zone tjat scales everyone to match.. or guild war instance that does?
Then maybe an instance or 2 with cap able points guilds can own for a devotional bonuse that DOESNT scale you.. stuff like that helps fix the issues .

 

Crafting:

Crafting is the BEST example I think of the 1% putting their due time in and getting their due reward. There really has never been any real exploits of dev mistakes with crafting other then it being *far* to quick to raise after persistence for ~2 months that the hard core people were able to use to quickly GM some stuff (the dev's cut the pool to skill by 1/4). the 1%'ers who have raised their crafting to what I have seen have put their time in, a LOT of time (and gold) in and they deserve where they are at now. Mac, Shim, Scoffer... they all deserve the skills they have in crafting, they truly worked it in the same way everyone else has too.



Adventure Level:

I dont think people care that people who put time in get their due at all.

I think people are mad at the dev's for catastrophic imbalances, especially early on that allowed the hard core players to hit lvl 100 in the first month using dev flaws (control points @ 1 million xp an hour) that they didnt fix that had existed in wipes for many many months. Add to this dozens of release flaws that the hard core players were able to utilize (I would not say exploit) before the dev's fixed them. The dire message was actually from Atos when he said "yar, I follow these guys around and fix the stuff they find". Well Chris... Thanks for creating the catastrophic imbalance in the first place.

DevilCult is one of the best examples I know in this game of someone who has gained his skill and level truly in game with blood and sweat (although, death magic of course has helped a lot in PvE). He wasn't around for some of the worst dev mistakes.

The question to start this is:

"Did you use control points to hit lvl 100 in the first month of this games persistence".

If the answer is yes, you were able to do something as a 1% player that no ones else was able to do. The rest of us have had to literally farm for thousands of hours over the past 9 months to get into the mid 90's, This is *important*, had I access (no, I could not get up to lvl 70+ quick enough before its nurf) to control points for those thousands of hours, I would probably be sitting at lvl 120 right now. So you can understand why people are pissed at the dev's and actually call for full wipes on occasion.

So was that fair to the whole player base when most people didnt even get up to a lvl to do a control point before they were "fixed"?

I dont blame the hard core players *AT ALL* if I could play 12+ hours a day, I would have done the same thing.

I blame the dev's... specifically Atos and "math".

 

I think the player base might be split on the assumption that the intent of this game was to 'involve a lot of grinding'. Some of us explicitly did not want this element as a prerequisite for competitiveness, and there were certainly strong indications from the Devs at kickstarter that design philosophy was to not go in that direction as much as possible.

I don't blame or resent any players who play the game by the limits of the design and optimize their progression. I do, however, feel it was a mistake to create a game that did not limit, but rather encouraged repetitive, time consuming game play for optimal progression. If anyone has played a Korean style grinder, you know that those games have limited appeal, in most cases a relatively short lifespan, and ultimately I find to be a shallow, meaningless experience. Here is the principal problem with SotA's progression model:
1. Time spent (not game knowledge, social network, applied skill) is the number one overwhelming factor that determines character progression.
2. Because an extreme minority of players have an exceptional amount of time for character progression, they quickly out level content.
3. Content is then balanced to these players (nerfing skills, reducing exp gains, making encounters more difficult, ect.).
4. Since the gap between these players and average players is not linear, but closer to exponential, the runway for character progression becomes further and further, until the average player stops seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for meeting their progression goals.

I don't ever expect to be the best at anything in this game. My goals are essentially to be able to take on any content in the game solo, craft decent gear with occasionally getting lucky and making something really unique, and have unobstructed access to all story content, without pausing to grind to get to the next story element.

I have 860 hours at level 78 (probably 800 post persistence). In the first few releases after persistence, I thought things were going great. People were doing the highest level content in the first month, and it looked like I could get there in a few more months. Then, the balancing to the high end players pushed that back further and further. It's looking like I'm probably now another 800 hours away from approaching my goals. The gameplay is simply not fun enough to justify that time, even if I had nothing else to do all day.

So, I think the complaints you are seeing are really a symptom of faults in the design that allow a handful of people to direct balancing and then have almost exclusive access to the game content with the highest rewards. Balancing should be directed at the top 75%, not the 99%. No game, ever, should direct balance at people who can play 12 hours a day. That is not sustainable and leaves the majority of the playerbase out in the cold to the extent that many will move on to something more rewarding for the effort they have to give.

 

i don't think the game DOES involve a lot of grinding. you CAN, but to complete the story doesn't require a level-100 character. the necropolis is hard, but you're not meant to kill everything in it, you're supposed to run through. the crypt of the avatar is hard, but the hard part of it is not needed for the quest line. malice is hard, but it's getting looked at. the other two lines: all you have to do is get through a control point and that can be done by lunar rift. there are things you may WANT to do that require you to grind up, but you don't HAVE to do them to complete the plot (so far).