Troll Feedback

At level 47 I soloed a troll* using only magic and base cloth armor. Feels good to finally have some kind of ability (despite the fact that I'm still not high enough to pvp).

The animations were crisp and for a solo player experience I felt like this was really an amazingly well done "boss" type character. Big thanks to @Chris and team for putting this together.

This was my first experience fighting a troll (1 kill after about 10+ attempts) and it was very challenging. A little too challenging sometimes, and a little too unrewarding after I killed this thing.

6 gold, 4 obsidian chips and a drained experience pool are all I have to show for it other than this picture.


I can see how people would farm this thing to death for loot and experience as they become more and more powerful. It's fun to fight, and it gives you a sense of accomplishment. But it make me wonder where the line gets crossed and it simply becomes a grind.

Single player online mode makes this "easier" as you're not competing for resources (including trolls), but anything obtained in single player online mode goes right back into the multiplayer economy. I think that's wrong, as the economy is multiplayer but the obtaining of wealth (resources) is single player. There's a very tricky balance there that I'm not sure we'll ever find. I think the Troll is a good example of that. He's essentially no different than a cotton bush or a wolf. A few minutes later, he respawned ready to take on the next challenger, his remains now a part of the multiplayer economy.

*No exploits were used in the killing of this troll.

 

Stop trolling already!

 

Troll a la la. But, it is a fantastic picture! Gratz on that awesome kill!!

 

So, it looks like dark in that screenshot.

Here's a question: how should the dark -- or hiding in shadows -- handicap opponents against you? It should be natural stealth IMO unless the monster has some type of night vision or other senses to guide it.

 

I don't agree. I think that presumes that being able to gather resources in peace is a game problem that needs to be addressed. The only problem IMO is the incentive to log into SPO which could be addressed by keeping player-to-player encounters in most places minimal in OPO.

 

Redfish, the darkness in the game is fantastic right now. It's dead on where it should be, imo.

The problem is that you can simply TAB your way to finding targets in the dark (including players). If that were removed at night time, or maybe the range had to be much closer than normal, that would be very cool.


As for the economy of SPO, we'll have to disagree. There are 100 use cases of where SPO will ruin multiplayer, imo. I could list them forever, they're everywhere. If one of the devs wants me to do that, I will. There's also a real impact to pvp that is just as important in my opinion. I think all SPO should be turned off for anyone flagged pvp or in a pvp zone. I think that has to happen or pvp is going to be predictably stupid.

 

I would just like to say, I don't like the huge level disparity and the fact that all PVP takes place at only the highest levels.

I can imagine this is a difficult problem to solve since PVPs tend to be the most competitive and obsessive and therefore will probably always be the highest levels,

but it feels like a system to allow lower level players to PVP like it used to be back in 2014 would really go a long way... keeping the player levels apart in general is probably a good idea...

 

I mean currently my experience is something like this. you start off with pathetic abilities, you can barely survive in Novia anywhere. Okay, so there's a big level range and supposedly you're supposed to over a long time I think was the assumption, reach those levels. but instead what happens is, in game, you meet up with a character say, level 70 and he offers to help you grind, you form a party with him and go fight red spiders and basically stay in the back, gaining his experience and occasionally dying, become a ghost and rejoining up with him after a bit. At least, that's how it was a few releases back. After many hours of this, at least say, 10. you're now leveled up into an acceptable level range... It just doesn't work.

I hope the devs know this is how people play and somehow try to come up with a system where leveling up always means something, and the strongest players can be accommodated, feel powerful, but don't overwhelm other players.

In the long run it just leads to less people wanting to PVP and reduces everyone's fun. Keeping level separation (perhaps geographically ?) is ugly, but at least like, you can have areas where you can PVP against other noobs from say levels 5-15... who is gonna play against a level 90 person when you're 12th level ... ?

I dunno what the solution is to this, to avoid gimping people that put the most time in while letting newbies at least feel some fun without feeling overwhelmed all the time, or like they'll need to grind for 2 weeks to "play PVP"... that doesn't work.. grinding is really the enemy in games like this.

Otherwise you just get to a place where everyone is at the level where there's no more advancement in order to be able to fight "evenly". And that defeats the entire purpose of the level system, doesn't it ?

 

There has to be a balance, and the point of the OP is both to offer positive feedback on the Troll, but also acknowledge that the Troll is special because I'm not grinding it. The moment it becomes something for me to casually take experience and loot from it looses it's meaning. The larger question of can we balance a use based system with an experience based system is a tough one to answer. It can be a lot of fun when that balance is working, but as you point out solo vs. group play is vastly different.

If I were to have had just one more person standing back shooting that troll with a ranged attack, that battle would've been so much easier (and I certainly wouldn't have posted a screen shot of it when I was done). Which is really as much an incitement of multiplayer's ability to avoid risk as it is single player online in other ways.

Personally, I don't think the two types of play belong together, but since that's a core feature of the game I'm hoping the developers have ideas about how to make it more balanced and a less pronounced impact to the game as a whole. Right now using SPO or Multiplayer (to group up) is way too much of an exploit of the base game.

 

I don't disagree with this. I have never seen a MMO that could handle this with the notable exceptions of
- WoW's battle instances like Warsong Gultch.
- Hearth Stones matching based on experience.

Neither of those fit the SOTA model. I am curious of there are alternatives. Any ideas?

@BFD Sorry to go off topic here.

 

Er, how did you kill a troll using only magic and cloth? I can't kill a spider!

 

This is a level based game focused almost entirely on DPS. You have to build your character around that premise.

In the case of the troll, there is "skill" involved in figuring out it's moves. It's one of the few things in the combat system that requires more than just levels to defeat (although if you're level 100 something) I doubt the troll is going to give you much trouble.

The troll has designed tells that let you avoid his attacks, so technically as long as you know where and when to move, you only have to do more damage to the troll than he is capable of regenerating. At level 47 I was able to do that. Maybe I could've done it earlier than that, but I didn't try and certainly it would've been that much harder because my character would've been doing less damage.

Also, I didn't use a melee weapon.

 

I'm lvl 40 now...tried a troll in Nighhtshade Pass yesterday...and he kicked my behind. So...congrats on your kill.

And, with magic...specially fire against a troll, thats doable. No, dont get me wrong, I got the troll about half way down before I was traped in between a root and that bridge. But magic, or even a bow, that allows you to keep your distance allows a big lot of "try outs".

The question I ask myself is...how the hell will I try to kill that beast with my friends when one of them wants to play a tank. It seems easyer to kill while kiting it ALONE with fire spells then...with a pair of friends that want to fight it out. And that...sorry...cant be correct. Or shall I tell my friends with sword and shieds (no...wait, let me do it and sit back) or (sad for you guys, next time make a mage or ranged and not a fighter).

 

I used only Death Magic. No bow, no swords, no armor (just the cloth armor from the NPC's).

I think the ranged attack of the troll is fairly powerful. He's also fast. But yeah, I can see where someone running around with a bow or ranged magic could probably kill this guy.

 

The one thing I don't like about the troll is the way its ranged attack has been implemented. It is - dare I say it? - immersion breaking, because it feels like the end result (dice roll) has been decided long before the attack animation takes place, more than anything else in the game: I can dodge & tumble & move aside and still get a critical hit from a rock that lands yards away from me. Other than that it's quite well done.

 

I agree. There are other animations on the troll that are like that too. I've been kicked or stomped by the troll when I was on the other side of the screen. But the entire combat system is like that, but for a very few instances where point and click targeting is required. For the most part, everything is tab targeted and locked on to regardless of what direction you're facing. I'm ok with that, as I'm not much of a twitch gamer at heart. But the automatic attacking of some of the spells like fire arrow really push the limits on my patience. This is one of the reasons I found the troll so enjoyable, because for the most part you really can dodge the melee attacks. I guess the ranged attacks leave too much margin of error for that same level of detail. It would be interesting to hear why Chris did that for the ranged attack but no for the melee attacks.

 

Hah. YES. Siege perilous

dudes... I love this thread, very well thought out and on point !

I also agree on a GREAT job by the devs