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Upcoming Economic Balance Changes

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. Jaanelle DeJure

    Jaanelle DeJure Avatar

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    It seems to me to be endemic to our cultural mythology... all manner of justifications for over-competitiveness based upon shallow out-of-date allusions to Darwinian biology; i.e. the "Law of the Jungle" and all that crap. Truth is- progress and evolution (even in the most simplest sense) are wholly dependent upon the interplay between competition and cooperativeness, not a lopsided view where competition rules by "might is right" and cooperation is deemed as the hapless recourse of the "weak and dimwitted".

    A more updated and cogent view of the world (and its socio-economic systems), would actually incorporate understandings beyond the indoctrinated "Machivellianism" of the late 19th/early 20th century economic theories. For example:

    Multilevel Selection Theory

    "Free Markets" is the rallying cry of those who want to be "free" to collude (i.e. cooperate in secret) with one another behind the scenes while maintaining a false front of "competitiveness" to the unsuspecting masses- price fixing, back-alley deals, exploiting the workforce, and generally screwing others over without fear of retribution or recompense. That's what "freedom" means to the more psychopathologically-oriented folk... Defrauding Grandma out of her life savings, and then justifying such heinous and despicable acts by crying "Law of the Jungle" and acting like it's Grandma's fault for being so naive that she actually DESERVES to lose her life savings. To these people, they really and truly believe they are doing humanity "a favor" by preying upon others that they have unilaterally deemed to be "the weak", and generally ruining "the game" for everybody.

    They hate anything having to do with art, creativity, music, self-expression, i.e. "dancing on the tables" (unless of course it makes them money and/or expands their power base) because they loathe the fact that these "idle, nonproductive, worthless" activities actually make people happy, and they themselves are hopeless psychophantic drones, utterly miserable despite their Dragon's Hoard of gold that they are sitting upon. Thus, their aim is to "fashion man into their own image" making sure that everybody is as miserable and drone-like as they are.

    Freedom to these people (if you can call them people) is not "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". The last thing I believe the vast majority of players want is to log into a fantasy world where they are just as subjugated under the pretense of "freedom" as they are IRL.

    Obviously- overregulation is stifling as well. That's why there needs to be a balance. Just the right amount of regulation to make it possible for everybody to have a shot at bettering their own economic condition without becoming a vassal to the psychopathic Corporate Overlords.

    TL;DR A player who is logged in 12 hours a week should be able to spend 3 hours decorating their house, 3 hours questing and crafting, 3 hours socializing and "dancing on the tables" and be able to pay taxes and feed themselves on the money earned grinding for other 3 hours.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
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  2. Nolove 0369

    Nolove 0369 Avatar

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    Wow
    This is 18 pages of some great ideas and thoughts and yet the only Dev reply on a Thread started buy The lead Dev. Is to reinforce his idea. ( I quoted it above)
    This is what I mean when I say the Devs have lost touch with the comunity and it is all about what they want in there game. We the backers dont even get any acknowledgement any more.
    This is a great post for the backers to come out and share there thoughts and idea.
    This is a horrible post for the Dev team, thanks to there lack of intrest they have shown here.
    Im pesonly insulted.
     
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  3. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    Please don't get overly emotional over the amount of replies from the dev. There were many feedback by players got applied into game despite the dev did not reply on those threads at all.
     
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  4. Tibs

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    I've always liked developers who listened more than they pontificated, personally. Maybe the future is more light and growth than dark and corrupt, you know?
     
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  5. Talewin

    Talewin Avatar

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    the dev don't need to be part of the discussion. they can sit back and just take in the ideas and feed back. but and its a big butt.... an occasional post from them that just acknowledges they are reading and paying attention would be nice... just saying.
     
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  6. Joe Zhudarak

    Joe Zhudarak Avatar

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    +400 hours of grinding using the same armor... i repaired my armor with repair kit 3 times (it cost 300 gp/piece). I think it will last forever :)...

    Solutions:
    1) Raise the price of repair kits....
    2) Make the newbie crafted items better than Blacksmith vendor items
    3) Make the armorĀ“s durability the same of weapons.


    The demand for newbie gear will be great.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  7. Owsley

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    I'm late to the party but here is my 2 cents.

    The gold sink of NPC vendors is way too high for entry level crafting. Recipes are at 250 gp and there is no detail description or picture of what they are and what resources they consume (Chair, Chair, Chair. Really?). You can waste a lot of gold just trying to get started crafting.I hate going out of game to find such basic information.

    Crafting in any game is expensive but in this one, it borders on ridiculous. I should be able to craft from what I gather and craft,. Dependence on NPC items like curing salts, coal, etc. makes it extremely difficult to progress at early stages when they consume most of your gold..
     
  8. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    You don't have to buy recipes from these vendors by the way. Other avatars can share you the knowledge of what needs to be crafted or there are also several magical entities called "websites". Sotacraft.com is an example of that you can consult.
     
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  9. Owsley

    Owsley Avatar

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    1) From the release notes "Teachable Recipes Delayed."

    2) Going to a third party website doesn't help when the recipe on the vendor just says "Chair" and there are three different ones. As I stated above I hate going out of game to see recipes. Simple fix is to display the same information when you mouse over a vendor's recipe that is displayed in the recipe book.

    Starting up cooking is a perfect example. What recipe do I need that consumes only 1 or 2 basic materials so I can level up? I'll waste 250 gp as a noob buying some recipe that I can't possibly locate the ingredients for. I'm suppose to research that offline before I play? I don't think so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
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  10. Roycestein Kaelstrom

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    1) that is for putting the recipe on the trade gump. You don't need that. As long as you know the ingredient and your proficient level match, you can craft stuff without the recipe.
    2) the current tech may only have thumbnail for the item, so since it's recipe, you would only see the recipe.

    If you want to know which chair you want to craft, just go to sotacraft.com under carpentry. Or you could go do it the hard way looking for player houses and see what chair they have. Once you find the one you like just hover cursor on it. Then ask around in-game on how they can craft it.
     
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  11. Owsley

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    You are missing my point. When the vendor recipe description just says "Chair" and there are three of them, you don't know which one to buy. It's a crap shoot
     
  12. Lifedragn

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    Painting in such a broad negative brush is both inappropriately stereotyping and shutting down rational debate by putting proponents on the defensive. There are good-hearted people who believe in free markets and that freedom of markets are self-regulated by people refusing to do business with those that operate in poor faith. While I concur that these are idealistic beyond the realm of reasonable expectations for a population as large as ours, I understand that they do not hold their views out of malice. That being said, there are plenty with the mindset you specify spreading misinformation to take advantage of these believers. Refusal to try to understand the mindsets of others just because you know that a few of them hold abhorrent reasons behind similar beliefs is how you build the Us vs. Them mentalities that have held humanity back for millennia.


    Couldn't agree more. These folks might only be able to afford Row lot taxes, but the play style is valid. If they spend 24 hours a week with the same activity breakdown they could go Village. And so on. We definitely don't want the game balanced to those who spend 40+ hours doing nothing but "making profit"
     
  13. mdsota152

    mdsota152 Avatar

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    You don't need to buy recipes to craft. Like others have said, just go to sotacraft find the one you like and put those ingredients on the table. I have yet to buy any recipe. No need and a waste of gold.
     
  14. Roycestein Kaelstrom

    Roycestein Kaelstrom Avatar

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    I get his point now. The issue is with the recipe names are labeled as "chair", not "sturdy chair", "dinner chair", "Gothic chair".

    In this case, please file a bug report.
     
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  15. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Apologies... I should have specified that I didn't intend to imply that anybody rallying for "Free Markets" is automatically one of those described. Rather that those described typically misappropriate the concept of "Free Markets" to the unfair disadvantaging of others.

    "Free Markets" are obviously a good thing... when in the hands of good people.

    You should take those comments in the context of the rest that I have made here which are admittedly strewn about 18 pages. :)

    For the most part, I am assuming that most of the "rich" of this game simply don't find any compelling reasons to spend their gold. But I -do- think in light of the fact that the economy has been broken, a "rich" person being miserly with their gold (i.e. not spending money at a vendor because an item is "priced too high") is not helping the situation.

    But those "people" are out there. They definitely exist. And those with the will, but without the the means to wreck the real economy often end up trying to set up their little "fiefdom" online. And when their little cartels get broken up, they tend to rage quit and leave bad reviews, start hate sites, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
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  16. King Robert

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    [QUOTE="But I -do- think in light of the fact that the economy has been broken, a "rich" person being miserly with their gold (i.e. not spending money at a vendor because an item is "priced too high") is not helping the situation. QUOTE]

    Is it not prudent to refuse to overpay for an item? I aver it is.

    The economy is broken precisely because it is not being permitted to function. The game economy is artificial; we should have a fixed sum of gold, with additional gold added to the game per week. That would allow for a natural valuation of in game gold. Giving everyone more gold does not help the economy; it merely creates inflation. Give all players 1,000,000 gold; are players wealthier? No, because all wealth in currency is by definition a derivative of relative value. I would love to see the economy flourish, but with the devs trying to balance the economy, it will never function. No government in world history has been so able. Because by definition balance is not the nature and probable outcome of competition.
     
  17. Jaanelle DeJure

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    Of course it's prudent! But this is not the time for prudency. Don't punish the players because Port hasn't fixed the economy yet.

    I'm sorry, but I just don't see it that way. The economy is based upon a set of rules that is being written by the devs. If there is no structure (rules), there is no function.

    The reason that governments repeatedly fail to balance economies is precisely because they haven't yet figured out what to do in order to prevent psychopaths from becoming uber wealthy, and dangerously powerful.

    At any moment in time, there is a fixed sum of gold in the game. And. Giving everyone more gold is just another way to add additional gold to the game per week.

    Of course, but that isn't what is happening here. What is happening is a stop-gap measure to allow for beginning players to earn an extra 500-1000 gp per day. Meanwhile, the "rich" will no doubt continue to accumulate something more like 10,000 gp per day. They will still be outpacing the "poor" by quite a margin.

    What do you think it would take for the economy to flourish?
     
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  18. King Robert

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    The economy would flourish if 1) a fix amount of gold was know; 2) the devs made taxes more reasonable; 3) credit was implemented (secured gold loans against deeds/lots/ore) to permit crafting inventory buildup; and 4) a single location to view all items for sale in the realm by price.

    No one has enough information to price items or know what is for sale. With certainty in currency, tax reform, credit and information the economy will take off like a rocket!

    And yes some will get rich. Babe Ruth hit more home runs than did some entire ball clubs each year. Not because he was a psychopath but because he was the best ever to play the game. Greatness is beautiful; and it is justly rewarded by the market.
     
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  19. Croniac

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    So here was my interaction with the Oracle, is this really fixing the economy?

    Oracle: "Croniac, do you think you're making progress on the path of truth?"

    Croniac: "haha, oh, hellz no! I'd steal YOU if you weren't bolted to the wall!"

    Oracle: "Cool, heres 500gp, try to be a better person."

    Croniac: "Yeah, sure, whatever... SUCKAH!"

    *** Laughs all the way to the bank ***

    Not much of a fix...
     
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  20. Owsley

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    Is this the intended design? It sounds like test code, an oversight, or a bug to me. I've never crafted in an MMO without having to learn a recipe or formula. If it is by design, the fact that this is not explained anywhere when you play the game contributes to starting players being poor.

    Why are they in the game at all and cost so much?
     
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