Want more funding? Add real PvP.

Whoa - it's never going to be perfect. It needs to be running and persistent well before that !!

It's not like once they flip the switch that's the end of development.

 

They said they will be opening up the world persistently by the end of the year, and that will likely be the start of beta testing.

 

Yea a murder system would get me interested again.
I'm more hardcore and would have the caster get flagged if he hit other players with a AOE spell.
If someone ran into that area later though I would not flag him.

 

that is true, because for true pvpers the game died, the day trammel got released i dont know how many subscripbers they gained, or lost but i think they lost a lot.

always hoped lord british is a pvper murdering arround on his second account

 

you mean for gankers.

This is not the game you're looking for. /jedi

 

Ultima Online didn't reach it's peak subscribership until 3 or so years after the release of Ultima: Renaissance.

This is another specious argument, and piece of revisionist history... folklore that is not in line with fact that those who will only settle for Full World, Open, Non-Consensual PvP use to support their argument. It's simple not true.

Perhaps the game lost it's appeal for you, and for others like you, and if the game died for you, I'm sorry, but for a quarter million other people it didn't.

 

Without PVP confirmation, I do not give more money.

I Royal Artisan and I think up to Ancestor.

But I'll wait.

 

So, is the prevailing wisdom that PvP *won't* be in, in any form, by "Episode One" or "Beta" in December ?

Cause that seems to be the vibe i'm getting. Guess I'll just be able to level up a ton so when it does come in I'll be even less susceptible to getting PKed

 

To really address PvP in this game let's focus on SotA's proposed PvP System. Bellow I've highlighted their bullet points from the PvP megapost, and I added some of my thoughts. Feel free to weigh in on these points to help make PvP right for SotA.

1. If there is no full loot because it will cause people to use second rate gear, then also please consider some ideas in this thread because ever increasing repair bills will also lead to people using second rate gear. As detailed here.Repair cost increase solutions
2. Blessings of the Oracle (Open PVP)-- This is great. However please implement a looser version of a murder/criminal system that UO had. ie. so allies don't turn on eachother in battle and kill one another without consequence. There should still be some kind of murderer status, and criminal status but maybe not as strict. Like murderers don't need special statloss etc.
3. IF NO FRIENDLY FIRE-- This might upset some people, but it does eliminate the accidentally being flagged as criminal for using an area of effect spell. Although I do think somebody should be flagged as criminal for deliberately attacking someone "innocent" to them (maybe even have a warning that they are committing a crime). I'm defining innocent as a person who is not directly engaged in some kind of war with you, nor a murderer or criminal. However I really think we should have the OPTION to attack an ally if they are flagged for PvP, but not without consequence. The ability to attack somebody that would be morally wrong to attack is exactly what some PvPers want, yet let them be a criminal for it. It creates cool drama too!
4. Guilds (Warfare and Open PVP)-- Great. Like the option to have a winner and loser. Even though, I'm not a huge fan of lots of factions, I did like the order chaos thing in UO. If there was a continuous guild warfare or a continuing war between the the oppressive obsidians, and freedom fighters or something... who knows. Whatever, it just might be interesting to have a continuous state of warfare that does not require a winner and loser.
5. PVP Zones-- I don't have any issues with this, maybe somebody else has a good insight. I personally have no problem with a SPO player entering one of these zones, but not be able to gather double the resources, or get a very small amount of a special resource etc. Again that's something debatable.
6. PVP Level & Skills-- I'm greatful that PvP skills are separate from adventuring skills. If it took away from our PvE skills I would physically die.
7. Loot & Ransoms-- This is a huge debate from what I've heard. I have no freaking clue what to say other than I liked full loot and some other people don't. However I'm a huge supporter of Reforging Items after they've been repaired a few times as mentioned above in the link for Increasing repair costs, because I think continually increasing repair costs leads us to use limited gear just like full loot.
8. Grouping-- I like this. The person who creates the group flags the group. I don't know how others see it, but I think this is a great idea, and allows us to choose how to adventure with friends, and allies.
9. Trophies-- I'll put this here for others to remeber to comment on. I never cut people up much, but having an ear necklace would be cool, and so would eating people (but that should be a serious crime as far as I'm concerned. If somebody killed my mother and another person ate her, I would be just as mad at the killer as the one who defiled her through cannibalism).
10. Leaderboards, Ranking, Ladders-- YES! However I always say this... If we have a block list let it be disabled when we flag for PvP. Let them be able to filter text, but not block people, because people might block the best PvPers on the Leaderboards, and in opposing guilds. Even if it causes that person to be lonely instead of hurt the leaderboard person, I would hope that nobody can be unfairly blocked. Let the players meet up as they are.
11. Duals-- This will be cool. I hope a LOTM person buys one of the castle arenas so we can all go and watch these things as a group!!! Or better yet lets create player run leagues. However duals usually don't feel like regular PvP so it is it's own animal.
12. DEATH--I don't know what to say here I hope somebody else has something to say about it. It would be cool for Virtuous people to have angelic looking ghosts, and sinister people look like dementors from Harry Potter, and those in between have various shades of grey. However I would hope that PVP doesn't incur a virtue loss unless you murder an innocent. For example using Ultima 4 reasoning, it would be very difficult to remain virtuous in PvP, while a wicked player can flee combat at will with no worry about valor. (however murdering innocents and allies is probably grounds for a loss of virtue).

 

Where did you get that impression? The current schedule has PvP making an appearance in R11.

 

If we turn into ghosts, I'd like to see some areas only accessible to ghosts, or some reasons to want to stay in the ghost state. I think that would be kind of cool if there were Ghost missions you could do, like getting in a cab in grand theft auto.

 

Okay good. I dunno, I started getting a vibe from around the forums that it might not make it in.

I mean Richard at E3 in the video said they would have "10 or 12" releases... so there might not be a R11 !!

I could see them cutting it to make the schedule, it's a big, big deal....

 

I seriously doubt they would launch without PvP.

 

They will launch with PvP. The PvP mega post where I got those highlights from above is the current proposal for it. It had some backlash. However with a few tweeks I think it will be fine. Somethings might never find a middle ground for like looting.

Here's proof they will have PvP:

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/pvp-death-current-thinking-megapost.8247/

 

I think there will be pvp in by the fall, but I seriously doubt that it will be anywhere near finished by when they the world becomes persistent at the end of December. I can't see more than just an outline of what might be in store for pvp. Probably flagging, consensual pvp spread across the world, pvp hexes (because they'd be easy to do), but I'm not sure what else can be done in a couple of months between October and December. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Do you want HARDCORE PvP ???




YES

 

i want to be a crafter my statement i can only post over and over agin

a lot of good people not like evil people

but a world without good and evil, would not feel realistc and would rob us the roleplaying against players.

in the real world people have to die that other people make money,

same in an mmo ,blues must be murdered, that my armor crafter can sell new gear and can live and excist as a crafter. or you want to skill up a crafter hoors for hours just to craft 1 armor you never loose and deleate him ???

 

Do you want hardcore pvp?
Yes.


Pvp should definitely be a core feature itself. I didn't fund for playing a sims clone where I will craft something, design my house all the day or participate with fake PvPs which occur between only the "duellers". You are playing, accept it or not, an mmo-ish game and the game should be maintained for a long time. Safe world simply implies inflation, where is the fun in this? Are you here for safely gold digging all the day? Dude please, do you even believe this can be sustained? A well-thought notoriety system (jailing criminals, penalty of being a murderer etc.) will definitely fix everything about griefing. There should always be an anti for everything, some kind of balance factor, good vs. evil, risk vs. reward. What is the meaning of roleplaying if I can't "betray" anyone or play the evil? Should I always be a roleplayer in your dreams, drinking in tavern, decorating the house all the day, "oh boys a wicked dragon is approaching, thou shalt pay it foul creature!", "M'Lord"? No, this is not freedom, roleplaying is not something like that. You can pretend many actions but you can't pretend "Oh I'm betraying you brother, now think as if I hit you and you died because the system doesn't allow me to hit you". Give us some freedom, don't make a sims simulator. Does it really feel happy to easily acquire the recently added super item, wear it and put yourself in crowded areas as a showcase?

 

Then tell them (based upon their system), what to modify to make it "hardcore". If we are going to criticize why not offer a suitable alternative that expresses what we mean by "hardcore".

Sex can be hardcore too. For all you know they might be interpreting hardcore pvp as meaning you want to have sex with people in multi-player mode.

 

Hardcore PvP is -

1. Consensual PvP, non-consensual PvP opens up for newbie PvP players preying on the more or less defenseless

2. Full loot (risk vs reward), and loosing durability on gear is a plus. It also give crafters another market

3. Skill based combat system that challenge you as a player to train and develop your player skills. Full access any time to your skills. To master PvP (become one of the best) should be just as hard (if not harder) as becoming a fully learned smith (very hard and time consuming).

4. Friendly fire make the PvP game more hardcore since you cant spam AoE spells (more hardcore since it will flag you criminal when a innocent get affecteded by that spell)

5. Alignment system that deliver risk vs reward to murderers. Many will think more then 1 time before entering a career as a murderer (after statloss for murderers was introduced to UO most of the newbie PK:s ended their murder career or left the game). Only the really skilled player continued down that path. I suggest something close to a statloss system as old UO had.

6. Duels with ladder can be fun but only if the game demand alot of player skills to compete well. The PvP game and it's combat system have to be hard to master and take alot of training ( i dont see the proposed combat system being such a system).