What happened to Coup de Grace?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Jason_M, May 26, 2019.

  1. Jason_M

    Jason_M Avatar

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    Hello everyone. Has anyone else noticed that the calculations for coup de grace seem to have changed?

    I have noticed in the last couple of weeks that the range of damage done by Coup has grown. I've actually had a Coup do 65 damage followed by over 600 damage (non-critical). Speaking of criticals, I seem to be doing far fewer of them, as well.

    I haven't crunched any numbers (not my idea of fun), but I've been playing the same build long enough to notice subtle changes to combat timers/calculations - and something is very fishy here.

    I'm curious if anyone else has noticed the same.
     
  2. Sarek

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    Yeah I agree, fishy. Noticed the exact same thing as well
     
  3. Gravidy

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    I noticed something similar fighting the troll in Ravensmoor last night. The troll was definitely under the 20% line, but my coup de grace seemed to be doing a very "regular" amount of damage.

    Code:
    [5/25/2019 8:53:02 PM] [8:53 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 85 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 8:53:09 PM] [8:53 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 19 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 8:54:01 PM] [8:54 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 36 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 8:54:02 PM] [8:54 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 401 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 8:54:04 PM] [8:54 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 194 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 8:54:20 PM] [8:54 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 373 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 8:54:22 PM] [8:54 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 231 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 8:54:22 PM] [8:54 PM] Torc'Dawl the Broken has been slain by Gravidy's Coup De Grace!
    [5/25/2019 9:09:34 PM] [9:09 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 86 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 9:09:38 PM] [9:09 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 85 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 9:09:57 PM] [9:09 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 190 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 9:10:14 PM] [9:10 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 402 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 9:10:16 PM] [9:10 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 9 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 9:10:38 PM] [9:10 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 123 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    [5/25/2019 9:10:40 PM] [9:10 PM] Gravidy attacks Torc'Dawl the Broken and hits, dealing 250 points of damage from Coup De Grace.
    
    The 402 followed by 9 damage is a bit odd.
     
  4. Ryodin Stormwind

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    Stats for Coup De Grace at level 100 says 21-178 damage. With critical modifiers applied, its no wonder how it hits 400+ damage, but it shouldn't be hitting less than 21 damage unless some kind of damage resistance by the trolls is being factored in...which is the only explanation I have for what's going on here.
     
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  5. golruul

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    I've coup de grace Torc for 0 damage a couple times and screenshotted it once. There was no parry or avoidance message either.

    My meteoric iron (blade + hilt) two-handed sword + usual buffs + 100 skill coup shows 63 damage minimum for a single stack which I never do unless I can't charge it up anymore.

    So either there's a bug or there's an excessive amount of game mechanics being hidden from the players.
     
  6. FrostII

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    Agree on all points.......
     
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  7. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Stealth nerf, like Flurry?
     
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  8. Jason_M

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    Seems like it could be the unintended comsequence of a change in calculation.

    Would the result of the damage calculation be very different if the 5x modifier were applied before or after the target's defensive stats such as damage resistance?

    Whether nerf or well-intended edit, I think the results seen in the wild are not very desirable :oops:
     
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  9. Boris Mondragon

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    I agree it has lost its punch to a degree. I am tactics/sword spec and though it’s nice to be able to use it at mob 1/3 health, it won’t be enough for me to take it higher than 120.

    @Sara Dreygon ; what are your thoughts on this Coup damage thread?

    R/Boris/El Pirata
     
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  10. golruul

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    This is probably it.

    I've posted a bug before about riposte (yeah, I used to use that. Pity me) doing less damage than the minimum it was supposed to do: https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/known-riposte-doesnt-work.147039/

    This was fixed the following release. There was some mention of inherent damage resistance reducing beyond what should have happened. It's probably happening here.

    When I get a chance I'll post a bug report and attach my (0 damage) screenshot.
     
  11. Jason_M

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    I haven't used riposte in a long time, but I remember it was really good damage if you could manage it. I hope it hasn't changed too much...
     
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  12. golruul

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    Long time ago it did a lot of damage and was worthwhile to use. Then some internal calculations changed and did much less damage. Then I looked into it some more and filed that bug report.

    After that bug was fixed I did some more analysis and concluded it did roughly the same amount as thrust if you used it after a parry, but obviously had much more restrictions (i.e. need to parry first).

    So, same amount of damage but much more restrictions on when you can do it and takes a valuable slot? No thanks. Might be worth it if Port makes a mob that constantly blocks, dodges, and parries, but the likelyhood of that happening is low.

    I'll test it again after the crafting changes go in, but I'm not expecting it'll be any better.

    If anyone else has experience with it, let me know your conclusions.
     
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  13. Sara Dreygon

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    I haven't noticed coup de grace changing much lately although I have been killing more liches than usual lately and I usually don't have coup in my deck for those. I did kill a death mage with it twice as I heard that they hate coup and death mages are a pain for melees.

    From my experiences, coup is extremely good against low armored opponents like the spider queen and lich bosses but don't expect the same damage from using it on a high armored mob like a dragon as it usually hits very meh (250 to 300ish one stack) with a big hit mixed in on crits (maybe 1000 to 1200ish).

    I also have grown fond of heat-stacking it against the lesser armored boss mobs as it is fairly quick and can end the fight faster than just thrust and double-slash would (have hit the queen for over 5k a few times). Against heavy armored mobs I often feel I could have killed or faster by not using coup and just continuing to spam usual attacks but very tough to confirm... is close.
     
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  14. FrostII

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    @Sara Dreygon
    Try it on a dragon and see if you EVER get a crit.
    Or, try it on anything and see if you get a crit.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
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  15. Time Lord

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    I have noticed within my new character creation testing that two characters, one with swords and one with mace (both with no magic other than heal), the mace character climbed much faster in damage ability (ability hunting higher monsters) than the blades character did given the same time spent in game.

    I also noticed upon returning from a very long time away from the game, that my main character has been drastically negatively impacted in hunting ability.
    [​IMG]
    ~TL~
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  16. golruul

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    Not sure if it's different, but I crit every so often on Torc. It's fun to see 2k+ crits!
     
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  17. Ryodin Stormwind

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    I'm about to drop swords myself. There's just too many drawbacks. You have one of your main skills completely worthless against undead (Rend). Coup de Grace is inconsistent at best.

    Sure, swords is pretty good sustained damage...but it's outclassed by both Bludgeon and Polearms.

    If you are looking to be a damage dealer, then Polearms is certainly the way to go. If you are looking to be a tank, then Bludgeon seems like a no brainer. Where does that leave Swords? Doesn't seem to be worth it anymore to me. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong because I keep hearing that "swords is some of the best damage in the game". Sure, I can solo Torc'Dawl...not a chance at soloing a dragon. But soloing these wave battles that are becoming more and more prevalent - not a chance for most with swords. With polearms or magic, sure. Swords can hit 2-3 targets at a time tops while Polearms and Magic can hit far more.

    Perhaps if Whirling Blades was better, swords would be more enticing.

    Now, that said, Swords is pretty good in PVP in my opinion, though I don't PVP all that often.

    I don't know, maybe I'm just doing it wrong. But if that's the case, it shouldn't be this hard to enjoy Swords.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  18. Boris Mondragon

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    To really enjoy swords I have to be in zerker mode. To stay alive in zerker if engaged with more than four mobs I have to rely on parry, glancing blow and fortify defenses along with death shield. It’s great when it kicks in right or humbling when it doesn’t. R/Boris
     
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  19. ErikRulez

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    Checked my log so far today. Out of 70 coups, I got no crits. Mostly trolls and a few Saytrs.
     
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  20. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Brigade – Bug Hunter

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    Grace? She died 30 years ago ??

    [​IMG]
     
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