What is going on?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aldo, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. Aldo

    Aldo Avatar

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    My character is trapped in a useless maze. The more I play, the less I progress. I apologize for throwing this out there without thoroughly fleshing it out, but for what it's worth:

    The game has limited progression in all skills and abilities. The better you get, the more time it takes to increase your level. You have reached a cap. One that can only be improved by spending inordinate amounts of time grinding. New content is just out of reach. You need more skill/higher levels to participate in the new scene. But fear not, if you get this or that 3 day blessing, use this or that devotional, find this or that artifact, collect 32 artifacts for combining for more power.....

    The point is that when you train to the cap, you are put on a treadmill of activity that requires you to perform certain tasks every three days (as an example), the same thing over and over just so you can enjoy new scenes that are beyond any one's ability to train for. So rather than being in scene progressing, we are out of scene grinding up the +25 attunement bauble just so we don't get slaughtered immediately.

    Wouldn't it be better if we could spend our time in scene developing skills and abilities to cope with the challenges there? I am getting bored spending all my time buffing up rather than playing. At present, if it takes 15 million experience points to progress in pretty much any skill, you have no choice of playing where you get new and exciting challenges. Rather you have to rehash the same old blessing renewal routine in a Tier 3 area just to step foot in the new content.

    Like I said, I am not good at fleshing this stuff out. There are many solutions that come to mind but I am not capable of developing them enough for proposal. Example: perhaps we could train our weapon for special use. If I killed 100, 1000, 10000 skeletons with my weapon it would gain abilities against all similar foe. I would imagine that durability would have to function differently so you don't wear the darned thing out just as it gets to a satisfying level.......I hope you see my drift.
     
  2. Cora Cuz'avich

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    I was briefly excited that this complaint might be a thing of the past when Lamech's Bazaar went into the game. I thought it meant that when new scenes went in, we'd get a slightly easier version of them. (Or, maybe, some slightly tougher versions of existing easy scenes.)Sadly, so far, all the new scenes since then have been t10 or higher, and mostly aimed at group play.

    And, usually, with the same loot as t5 scenes. The scenes may have some unique higher level drops that can happen, but when those drops don't happen, you're getting loot that's no better than anywhere else, despite the content being significantly harder.

    To be fair, this last release has been a step in the right direction, adding a lot of things to hunt down in different areas all over the map- many of which can be found in t5 areas.

    But, once you've hunted them all down... I guess this just what you get when the game isn't being designed by anyone who actively plays. I don't mean that as a snarky insult, just an expression of reality. New content and "end game" level areas tend to be a bit beyond the point where people start hitting the soft caps to their progression. So it's either endless not-fun grinding the same places to maybe someday get to where you can do the new stuff (which, by the way you have to pay to access), only playing in groups, or moving on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  3. Virsago2099

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    Have you tried finding a group for the content that is just out of reach? I know some folks prefer to play solo, but in an online game I think it makes sense to have areas that require a group, and can only be soloed by very powerful characters. If you're going to solo content, you're gonna have to grind a lot more than people who group up, and I think that's ok.
     
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  4. Aldo

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    That is part of fleshing this out. I am solo, so based on frequent posts about group play as it is, the complaint I come away with is that play is pretty boring when the desired drop is divided amongst the group requiring more grinding so everyone gets the bone. @Cora Cuz'avich alluded to dual scenes, one for solo and one for group as a solution as a step in the right direction.
     
  5. Cora Cuz'avich

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    The devs don't seem to have any interest in doing that, though. At best, they'll say that's something they plan to do, which mean maybe in the next month or two, or maybe not for a year or two.

    Group play isn't terribly rewarding, since all loot gets divided up. You throw in the randomness of the item actually dropping, and it can take hours and hours for everyone to get one. And, personally, I just don't enjoy group play.

    I'm fine with some areas being intended solely as group areas- I don't feel an overwhelming need to solo everything in the game or posess every possible drop. I just want at least some of the new content to be something I can do. (I mean, I did pay for it. Maybe that's on me for paying for something without knowing what it would actually be.) I'm level 118; that should be plenty enough to handle anything new that's interned for solo play. Except it isn't. Even if I wanted to farm and grind all day long, I only really play for a few hours on Saturday each week. (and not even that, the last few months.) So I'm not hitting 120 or 125 or 130 any time soon, with the soft caps. Which is fine, but I've done the old content to death, and the new stuff is still beyond me. The game pretty much goes from t5 to t10 (there's a few t6-t8, sure, but again- done to death) and you get stuck in between for a really long time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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  6. Innascual Inch

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    What would help alot is if they finished implementing the tiered scene difficulty for all adventure scenes in the game, with scalable rewards. There are a lot of interesting low lvl scenes that no one plays...
     
  7. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    I was hoping that was the plan all along.
     
  8. AzazelReborn

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    There new scenes are not difficult at all, you just need to pick your fight and know your build. I have only been playing this game for about a year and I put a lot of work on my character and build to be able to do what I want to do.

    I know my characters limit and limitation, what I can not do alone I do with group. You just need to be having goals with your character. What I do not understand is how older players think the content is difficult whereas newer players thinks the opposite. I wish I would of been playing this game from inception to be strong like some of the older players.

    Basically my point is the game isn't difficult at all, there are some inconsistency with it, i.e., ATOS implementing stupid logic in scene to hinder players because he doesn't want to do the hard work of implementing a decent AI. Know your build, know your characters capability and know your limit and you can do anything and content in the game.
     
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  9. FBohler

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    I thoroughly agree with the OP.

    @Elgarion we don't mean to be cruel to your work or anything. But the best way I can describe the new scenes is boring. Scalable ones range from easy and effortless to impossible to solo (and still a bit boring).

    For that I have some simple suggestions:
    1) add more bosses in the lines of the Lich of the Mound. Random spawn, only in open multiplayer scenes, semi random location, potentially useful unique loot, challenging to fight. Maybe a Shadow Dragon in Spindleskog would do the trick to make the scene a bit more exciting to play.
    2) For new scenes, what about having multiple tiers in different parts of the map? The main entrance being in the open fields with some T8 enemies to warm up, then a bandit camp with some T10 and T12 mixed in, then invading a fortress with T14+ enemies (aiming group play) and finally finding a boss like the Xen spider, with timed respawn that only works in open multiplayer scenes (and unique loot as well).

    By the way, the Spectral Peaks is a nice place in the game to get inspiration from. Moderately low level people may solo the outer parts, but if they find the Xen Spider, they'll have a big challenge to try and catch up with a party later.
     
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  10. kaeshiva

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    The problem is that new scenes are balanced toward what the high end hardcore players are able to achieve - the people who have spent 12 hours a day for 6 months cranking skills to crazy levels, who have spent the last year(s) farming bosses for the silly amount of artifacts needed, farming gold for the millions required to craft up the gear required, etc. To keep these players from trivializing content, content has been baselined against them. Which makes it impossible for anyone else.

    Oh, all the big boys have their super artifacts already? Lets make another level that needs even moar!
    And difficulty of content seems to be achieved by either adding nuisance mobs (like zombies) or giving monsters undodgeable 1-shot attacks (looking at you, Mr. Big Lich) that players who haven't achieved the 'godly' gear and xp thresholds simply have no chance against. Don't get me wrong, I'm like ...level 135? I have 140+ in all the crafting skills that matter, all the legendary artifacts, all enchanted up to silliness - and I can't survive half these places unless I play one of a handful of very specific builds and even then no guarantees. I lost interest in trying to keep up with the ratrace since even if I do get all the things, they aren't even permanent (durability). I remember when 120 in a skill was considered pretty darn good. Now 140 seems barely acceptable. And the difference between 120 and 140 across key skills is measured in hundreds and hundreds of hours of grind.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
  11. Joe Zhudarak

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    Players asked for group content for years when it finally come some complain that can´t solo it because is too hard... Group up with some 2/3 guys and do it... its supose to be group content
     
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  12. Arkah EMPstrike

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    I did some testing with max difference in skill levels and came to the conclusion that its the buffs and gear combined cranking out so much of the power, that without maxxed out gear, the difference between 120 and 140 in anything is negligible.

    The tiniest increases in power from skills gets multiplied exponentially by your gear and buffs, so any bottlenecks in progression or loot is gonna be a bottleneck for the entirety of player progression.
     
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  13. Cora Cuz'avich

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    All of it, though? I've never once asked for group content. I'm just saying, can't maybe one of every three new scenes be soloable?
     
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  14. AzazelReborn

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    OMG people, all the new scene are soloable, you just need to know what you are doing. The Breach is trivial to some people, Spindlekog(Extreme) is being soloed every hour to get xp. Aldur is being soloed to get artifact. What are you guys saying all the new zones are hard, they are not hard at all, once you know what your doing its pretty easy come on guys.

    Challenge yourself and you will see it is not hard. Yes they are group content, it's an MMO game, if you want to play by yourself pick your fight and know your limit. If a zone is a T14+ why would you want to go there if you can not handle it yourself, make some friends.
     
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  15. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Not an MMO. Was never advertised as an MMO.
     
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  16. Powersurge45

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    Keep in mind being able to solo all the new content isnt the only thing to pursue in SOTA. There are places to get all the resources you need to buy or obtain all the items needed to make a good build. I do not own a single Epic item and my wands, which ARE NOT FIRE WANDS, are just enchanted uncommons. Depending on where you hunt you can get anything you need. With my build i easily can obtain yellow supply bundles and any real artifact of worth. I earn about 30,000 gp per hour. I know that isnt a ton of cash but do it for roughly 3 hours and that is 100,000 gold...more than an ample sum for 1 player. I think sometimes we get caught up in "keeping up with the Jones". This is not that type of game...our game is about leisure enjoyment. Our game doesn't cater to min/maxers very well. Some people enjoy harvesting/gathering...others like crafting...others like building a conglomerate of merchants to sell their wares across the entire land mass to amass either property, wealth or influence. Some folks like collecting rare items. Some even get gold to buy COTOs to obtain some of the newer deco or cosmetic items. Other folks just enjoy fishing...some folks like socializing at dance parties and community events.

    Our game isn't designed to boil down to an excel spreadsheet designed to get max level, max gear or max power.

    If i could give one piece of advice...relax, make some money...write down the pieces of your plan to get where you want and dont worry about what other people are doing...and find a buddy or 2 to handle the hard stuff.
     
  17. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Exactly. The new areas are not soloable by me, because I am a casual player who doesn't min/max. As previously stated, I don't need to have every item or solo every boss. I just want to get something new to do every once in a while. I've been playing ~5 years now, I can only do the old stuff so many times. I don't feel that asking for 1-2 scenes a year where I don't have to be on constant guard from one-shotting mobs is such an outrageous request from a game that was sold on it's ability to allow people to "play as they want- online, offline, single player, multi player- whatever suits you!"
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  18. Sean Silverfoot

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    +1
     
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  19. Cordelayne

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    This is exactly why I haven't played in months.

    While I am excited to try new content I simply can't, I'm not strong enough. As a casual, mostly solo player, I get left behind to the more hard-core players in the game, which is fine. I think most of us can agree that current game design caters to that SotA player demographic given their dedication to the game in playtime and probably money.

    However, it's still a bummer for folks like me that want to quest and see the great work that was put into some of these new scenes, but can't because we would most likely die immediately. Add in the terrible loot and I simply don't see the point of playing.

    What I find even more frustrating, is that when episode 2 does get finished I won't be able to enjoy the story because, again, I'm not strong enough to play through it and that really sucks.

    The only thing I really care about is the story, lore and quests. Now, with current game direction, I most likely won't be able to enjoy any of it because I'm not a min/max 6 hours a day player. Personally, I believe a player should be able to seamlessly progress through the story without the ridiculous amount of grind it seems to currently require. Shroud was supposed to put an end to mindless grind and now it is literally the definition.

    In the end, none of it matters. Things will continue as they are and at this point I am resigned to that fact. I'm happy for those that love how things turned out, I am simply not one of them...
     
  20. kaeshiva

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    This is the problem really, that because of the way skills, gear, etc. work in this game, the end result is there's content that is 'meant' to be group content but is not designed in a way that makes a group required. Therefore, someone with more time investment (for levels, gear, etc.) inevitably ends up soloing it. I don't personally care if they can solo it. However, for the people who have less time, who actually need solo-able content as they may not have the time or inclination to try and form up groups (and then fight over loot rolls when something actually does drop, which is hardly ever) - they cannot, because the content seems to be scaled to what the small % can do.

    I've rarely joined a group to do something that at least 1 player in that group wasn't able to solo. The rest of us were just along for extra dps. If you're in a group where nobody can solo the thing, chances are, the fight ends up being a struggle. And for the poor loot and exp returns you get struggling to kill "group content" with an underpowered group, it is often simply better to go grind tier 5 for gold and buy what you need from the soloists.

    I'm not suggesting group content is bad, but what we have isn't true group content - there is very little if anything I can think of in Sota where your net return for time invested is more efficient in a group larger than say 2 players. After that point, the loot/xp split makes you better off grinding something trivial. This is just how things are designed. If a player wants to super grind and super gear to the maximum limits, I support their ability to do so - and they absolutely should trivialize content - they've earned it. The content baseline should be aimed toward the average player though, not the elite player. Content creation will never be able to keep up with the rate that they churn through it - and by trying to keep them happy, you alienate the larger bulk of the playerbase who either cannot or are not willing to try and keep up.
     
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