Why Open PvP with full Loot worked in UO.

I second, or I suppose third, Zelan and Macsen above.

 

How was I unclear, and how did I contradict myself?

 

If you permit players to have the freedom to choose sides as they wish, and to change sides if they wish, how do you propose to prevent an imbalance. The losing side may be operating stupidly, and may deserve to lose because of it, and so people/guilds desert that faction and/or alliance.

 

Real life does this by dividing the rewards by the number of people involved, and also by often having "consolation prizes" for those that lose It's often better to be in the small team that gets the consolation prize, but only has to divide it between a few people, than to be in the large team that wins.

Doing something similar - in other words, making joining the smaller side more attractive - is how the few games I know with factional PvP that didn't devolve into an unbalanced mess solved the issue.

 

I'd like to point out that I and my friends, none of us hardcore PvPers, predicted WoW's downfall accurately and to within a few months of each milestone, and we did it the same MONTH that WotLK hit the shelves. The loss of any one group of players, PvE, PvP, RP, Hardcore Raiders, was not the cause. What caused WoW's collapse was the replacement of the dev team. If you were watching the forums, you would have noticed that the personality of the "blue posts" left by the devs changed drastically, and it's easily verifiable that this change occurred. The old dev team attitude was respectful but quietly authoritative, telling us what they were changing, and why, making it clear how things were going to work. The NEW dev team was peevish, insulting, and uninformative, mostly just talking about how great they were, and how wonderful the ambiguous changes they were making were going to be. One late pre-cataclysm post stands out to my mind as a true signature of this style. The writer was mentioning that the original designer of the "Westfall" region had stopped by, hearing that the area was being completely redone for cata, and offered his advice and support. The author and his friend LAUGHED IN HIS FACE, and said something to the effect of "Thanks Jim, but you aren't needed." Utter jerks.

The consequences in game were easy to trace, and led smoothly to all the dissatisfied ex-WoWers, myself included. They treated players as spectators at their show, instead of customers paying for a service, they patched out any feature that they couldn't control or understand, they put the classes into a severe OP rotation in which whichever class or classes had most recently been patched were wildly overpowered, but would be back on the bottom of the pile as soon as the next patch came through. The instances and raids became simpleminded (or more simpleminded, for those who know what 160 man raids were like) and the game mechanics were gradually pared down to make the "holy trinity" gaming style not just mandatory, but literally all part of one machine, none working at all without the other two.

Each group of players noticed this in their own time, I prefer to think that the real thinkers and leaders noticed it first, and left, which trimmed the player base by a small but palpable minority, then the players who enjoyed the interaction with and opposition from those players got bored so we lost many raid guilds and top end PvP groups, then the diminishing population started to collapse servers, the PvP simplification and lowered pops started driving away more PvPers, which left the RPers to notice that nobody was logging on anymore...

Of course, none of us who went through that got to see all of it, and even those who were monitoring it closely didn't see everything. This is merely what I and mine saw.

 

Silent... I said a oldschool Ultima type game made by a GOOD company and you bring up Darkfall. I admit, I was pumped by Darkfall but not even the type of game I enjoy can be enjoyed when the developers suck that bad. The largest game *even larger then wow* is LoL, it's not my type of pvp but it is pvp. If you are the majority like you claim, well I would think the largest game would be a player vs environment game where your goal is to slay a purple dragon named Barney. Sorry I had to do it but you are probally right on that point all jokes aside, but it's not as much as you think. You said I bring up crappy evidence and Im only bringing "opinions" to the table. I'm not going to do your work for you, use google.com because I have presented FACT not opinion. Nothing I said was opinion besides the reason WOW subsciptions are plummeting and if you read the forums, compare the pvp sections to the pve sections then you will see my opinion there is probally the opinion more close to the truth. Plus the fact, that I still play and pvp has never been so unbalanced as it has this expansion and I see and talk with people that quit left and right. It's as simple as this, I just want RG to know there is a HUGE pvp playerbase out there, despite what these dragonkillers say. If he want's me, it is simple. Make a server that doesn't have these opt out's. You 100% satisfy both sides then and that is more money in your pocket. I have said my two cents. That is all.

 

"these dragonkillers"
10/10, kek'd.

 

Two servers shouldn't be needed. The instancing system should make you only see other players that have chosen the same option regarding PvP - in other words, if you are available for PvP, you should only see other players also available for PvP, creating the illusion that you are in a PvP server; and, conversely, if you are unavailable for PvP, you will only see other PvE players, creating the illusion that you are in a PvE server. I missed this Silent. So, this is for the whole world? Any zone? Any place? Pvp can happen anywhere? If so, please direct me to a video.

 

hehe I couldn't help myself Templar =P I'm automatically assumed to be a PK even though I have always been the one who hunted the PK's.... so I will assume they are dragonkillers.

 

Yea, them dragonkillers always trying to dragonkill the game. Funny, when the game is launched and I set my slider (or whatever it looks like in Options) to full PvP, I'll think about all those dragonkillers whom I will never ever meet in the world of SotA. I hope they have their fun with the dragons.

The only thing I am concerned about is dragonkillers playing solo/with other dragonkillers, finding sweet spots for ultra-fast farming and then flooding the market with tons of items/resources while people from the PvP dimension wouldnt be able to farm unattended trough macroing due to the risk of being humankilled by humankillers.


WHY_CANT_I_HOLD_ALL_THESE_DRAGONS.jpg

 

This concern is huge. Let's forget about the flaming, pvp vs pve, and grammar nazi crap (nt that i injoy reeding sht liek this nemore then u do) and focus on this. From what I understand, we will be free to move our slider from PvP land to Candyland. So, how do we stop people from smuggling candy into PvP land? One obvious option seems to be restricting slider movement. Another would be locking items into the slider which they were obtained in. Either of these could work, but only if the problems they bring are addressed.

For locked sliders:
What if your friend is on another slider? How do we stop this from limiting player interaction?

For slider-restricted items:
Do we have to build a suit of gear for every level on the slider? It seems unrealistic to teleport into a new slider completely naked as if you were from The Terminator movies.

If you have any other solutions which are less problematic, please post them.

 

Yet one so many people seem eager to ignore. BTW, Candyland is a wonderful term for the non-pvp side of the slider.

I think you're going to have to put a tax on items and resources that cross the pvp line. So when you go out and get resources in Candyland, the items and resources are FOREVER tagged as Candyland. These items are then immediately taxed when you adjust your slider. If you don't have the money to pay the tax, you can't use the items.

I'd say the tax would need to be very high...something like 500%. This would make it possible to trade and continue interaction, but would discourage trade between the sliders. So items and resources moving from Candyland to PVP land or vice versa would incur the 500% tax, and ensure that only close friends would want to make these trades for special and usually low cost items. Of course this would effectively create two sets of resources and items - but that's how it should be since the two game styles are completely different. One being devoid of risk the other being based entirely on risk.

Problem solved.

 

What do you think will be smuggled, and how? I'm really not understanding your statement.

 

Candyland - Carebears...
Why do people feel the need to come up with nicknames that are meant to be derogatory to PvE players? Just type PvE, it's shorter.

Can we please be mature and keep with the theme of SoTA which is accepting ALL gamers and letting everyone play the game they way they enjoy without judgement. I'm not a moderator, I have no authority here, I'm simply asking this as a fellow gamer who wants to see a positive community for this game.

Thank you.

 

Personally I think players should just own up to it. For my part it's not meant to be derogatory as much as it's meant to label the lack of risk involved in farming AI -monsters that don't really pose much of a threat. The idea of moving items and resources from the PVE world to the PVP world is very concerning to me. It's something that seems easy to abuse and upset the balanced of the economy and the competitiveness of PVP.

 

I'm fairly certain everyone here understands there is less rick with PvE than PvP, so there isn't any need for having a label.

If your real concern about items and resources, by all means continue to discuss that. But you don't need to put 'labels' on people in the process.

 

If you don't mean it to be derogatory, then then use a neutral term like PvE, otherwise, now that you know, if you continue to use the term, then yes, you mean it to be derogatory

 

This is what the concern is:

Player 1 is PVE only. That player travels to a castle, kills a dragon, gets phat loot and resources. Player 1 then goes to town and sells all this crap for 5000 gold. Player 1 then goes back to the same castle and repeats the process over and over again. Yay for player 1 in PVE land.

Player 2 is full PVP. That player travels to a castle, gets killed and looted by a gang of players, respawns, finds some friends to help protect him, travels back to the castle and kills a dragon, gets phat loot and resources, but on his way out of the dungeon gets killed and looted again. Yay PVP is fun, but it took a lot more effort to kill the dragon because there's more risk involved.

Player 1 is 5000 gold richer and can almost set his clock to the efficient manner in which he can obtain wealth, virtually risk free. Meanwhile, Player 2 is poor in comparison to player 1 and he's taking all the risks.

So Player 2 gets smart and moves his slider down to PVE only. Now he can go kill dragons all day and make 5000 gold and hour without risk. It's not his playing style, but that's what he has to do to be successful. At the same time, everyone else is doing this too, so now the economy is hyper inflated by PVE risk free rewards.

So who does this hurt? People that love PVP and don't have any interest in PVE. Because now if you don't PVE all day to make your money, you can't possibly compete with the hoards of people that do. It's very poor game design that rewards the worst byproducts of min/maxing.

 

You're right, I can do that now that I know. Just so we're clear though, I was talking about the non-pvp side of the slider, not individual players.

 

I am not jealous of Bill Gates (well, maybe a little); anyone who wants ph4t l3wt can also go get that easy money, if they so desire. If you think that is boring, then continue to be flagged for open PvP and be grateful SotA has that option. Very few other multiplayer games will give you that opportunity. Money in games is typically is not terribly hard to come by, but who knows, maybe the devs will increase drop amounts if you are flagged for open PvP, and then I can look forward to hearing the high pitched whining from PvE players who will complain that the devs are rewarding PvP more than PvE.