WHY PVP IS IMPORTANT TO ME.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Brink1123, Dec 17, 2019.

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  1. Brink1123

    Brink1123 Avatar

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    I wanted to post this so Devs and non pvp folk might understand what we Pvpers look for in pvp. just in case they do a pvp overhaul to the game. First a little back story I used to play this game for a while but fell away due to the pvp/ransom system(i think quite a lot of other people did the same or the same reason.)

    I have always been a pvper/pker in UO those are some of my favorite memories. so why did i do it why did i pk? Thats a really quite simple question. The first and foremost reason I did it was the pure adrenaline rush the risk of dieing losing all my stuff, the trill of the kill the blood on my hands and the sense of accomplishment standing over my dead prey. The second reason I pked was it was my preferred profession i was not a blacksmith, i didnt make money farming, or taming or treasure hunting. my profession was killing and i was good at it, i spend many hours honing and perfecting my skill set.

    Is that ethical? well no, probably not but i dont care what you think is right or wrong. i was willing to accept my punishment for murder as stern as it might be.

    The solution..... stop programming in rules as to what we can and cant do! if we wanna kill or take over an entire dungeon lets us. and hopefully some "blues" will step up and put us in our place.

    The End Result.....If nothing is done to fix PVP I FEAR this game will stumble along for a little while longer before the servers finally go offline and the only way to play this game is in offline mode......... OR..... you could Make PVP Fun, rewarding, Open, profitable and risky if you do Pvp right this game will not only survive but thrive for a very long time.

    Pvp is not a hobby for me and others who already quit this game, IT IS A PASSION. Like i said i have already moved on and no long play this game so dont fix it for me fix it for yourselves.
     
  2. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

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    I hope that PvP gets significant improvements too, but I wouldn't worry about trying to recreate the magic of old games. We all loved games 20 years ago that were horrible by today's standards.
     
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  3. amarious

    amarious Avatar

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    I played UO for 14 years. The only time that I pved was when I was doing a Champ Spawn or a Harrower and that was in the name of pvp. The rest was purely pvp, if I wanted an item off of a mob I waited for someone to farm it then I'd kill them and take it.

    The adrenaline was great and besting someone felt even better. Never needed a carrot on a stick to pvp. Some people here claim that factions will get people to pvp more. What are your thoughts on that?
     
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  4. oplek

    oplek Avatar

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    Well, that there's a great way to make a bunch of people quit and stay quit, because they're not allowed to have their PVE game, and must be victimizable wherever they are to be found.

    *marks another line next to the "another PVPer who wants to force everyone into PVP against their will" counter*
     
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  5. Dhanas

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    I don't understand how asking pvp contents in a game that isn't full pvp, correspond to forcing everyone to do it.
     
  6. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Lack of rewarding pvp systems costed the game lots of players ... I hope Chris will take the time to develop a REWARDING PVP system ....
     
  7. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

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    Need something to fight for.

    Im not as much of a “hey lets go here and duel” kinda guy as much as i am a “hey lets go here and take it back from those guys” kinda guy
     
  8. krakenvarados

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    Totally understand you man. 10 years of PK on UO
    PvP at moment Is meaningless. No pvp system, nothing for do It.
    Moreover, Is totally unbalanced, but seems more important the snowy pavers patch....
     
  9. jschoice

    jschoice Avatar

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    I was an old school UO PvPer. I prefer PvP to PvE any day but what some of us forget is UO at the time was the only option so there wasn't much of a choice. It is pretty clear that us old school PvPers are a duing breed because there really isn't a game that has been able to hold our interest. Shadowbane feel apart, eso pvp I don't think so, Black dessert meh, archeage didnt live up to the hype. Dark Age of Camelot was decent but Camelot Unchained is struggling and Crowfall is also struggling. Most mmorpg gamers are not into open world PvP like we were back then and alot of that had to do with no other options at the time.
     
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  10. Numa

    Numa Avatar

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    The ironic thing is that I'm doing much more PvP in Pokemongo than i ever did in SOTA.

    Go figure :cool:
     
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  11. Pifester

    Pifester Bug Hunter

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    Factions was fun
     
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  12. Brink1123

    Brink1123 Avatar

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    Thats exactly what i was thinking if they are trying to get more players another round of new house decorations isn't going to do it. there is already plenty of stylish Bling for years to come. what they need now is good/FUN game play and rewarding pvp is the perfect and only way to accomplish that.
     
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  13. DavidDC

    DavidDC The New Guy Moderator SOTA Developer

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    What was really fun back in the day in pvp (i played all mmo just for pvp) is being able to overcome your ennemy using your brain. Like in the realm online which came out at same time of ultima online, it was turn based, tactical, balanced. Ultima online was like that too, i remember having to run behind tree and rocks or open door quick and close it behind me then come back out to cast a flame strike, super timed, it was very tactical before anything which is what i believe give the thrill and fun of pvping.

    The problem in sota, we kill each other in one hit, and we heal way too much. There is no real tactic, you go near your target, target him, spam an attack button and hope he die before you do. The CC's are insanity, they make you stuck in place and you cannot use the cover tactic or try to run away and come back, impossible to flee an opponent if you are not near a boat or an exit of a zone. All this is a major problem to pvp. The CC are something super annoying for both pve and pvp because they are way too present, thats another thing i mentionned when i started playing this game. I believe that even if pvp were rewarding right now it would still be crap pvp cause of this reasons. And before adding anything new rewarding, id fix obsidian trial. Which is the same exact thing, and would be more pleasant to play if it was more tactical instead of a huge one shot ganking arena.
     
  14. Brink1123

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    Factions would help but i think the problem is deeper than that. here is what i think would help out a lot. the price on weapons and Armour needs to come way down that way if you lose them in pvp its an inconvenience, not a game ruining experience(one way for that to happen would be to make the weapons require less raw materials to be made). pvp NEEDS to be a Profitable experience i think all money your carring on you should drop and the only safe money is money you put in the bank.... there needs to be a red,blue, and grey system really thats the only way to do pvp properly.
     
  15. Brink1123

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    EXACTLY!!! SOMEONE GETS IT.
     
  16. Brink1123

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    a Bunch of people already quit and stayed quit because it has only catered to the pvers. whether you like it or not human nature is to fight just look at the forums. look at all the controversial topics that are in the headlines people like to fight. i would bet that if PVP was open and full loot the number of players would triple(even after the pvers moved on or over the the offline mode). look at the success of games like pubg, Dayz, LOL all those games are PVP.
     
  17. Asclepius

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    If I may add a thought...
    I spent about a year in UO, as I had never played an online game and wanted to get the idea before Shroud came out. So I know a (little) bit. And I was mugged occasionally by a PvPer.

    IIRC, there was effectively a skill cap. 700 points, to be distributed as you wish. Didn't take too long to achieve that, you could get a respectable character fairly quickly. Then it's skill and tactics, as has been said.

    In Shroud, there is no skill cap. (OK, the XP costs become astronomical, but dedicated players can overcome that.) So in game we have a small number of hard core players at very high levels - with skills to match - and a bunch of mid to low level players who would be nothing more than cannon fodder for the experts. What incentive do they have to participate in PvP - none!! Casual players would likely never be realistic candidates for PvP, and the game needs to cater for them. I believe they are actually the majority.

    Speaking personally, I have done a bit of PvP, enjoyed the adrenaline rush and the challenge. Been thumped several times, but actually won a few. I do have a long term plan - with the rate I play, I should be pretty fearsome in about a year. And I am working on it - I would love to fully participate. The no ransom deal has made it more attractive for me, but I get that you want reward.

    One possible solution I thought of - why not make it monetary? A low level player would be crippled to lose some nice gear they have saved up for, and may not be able to afford the ransom. ergo - don't do PvP at all. But if there was a compulsory ransom, related to the player's adventure level (* times level) it would be less intimidating and crippling. Low level players could lose (say) 100 gold, high level players up to a few thousand. Done and no arguments. Then the potential reward (and risk) matches the skill level of the players, even low to mid level players may not be scared off, and everyone can get a shot at killing each other.
     
  18. oplek

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    So what?

    We could also look at the failures of PVP games that burn themselves out. We can also look at the successes of PVE/Single player.

    Doesn't matter.

    At the end of the day, the game was advertised, pitched and sold as consensual PVP. To change this fundamental principle of the game would be unethical. It'd be like buying a romantic comedy film off iTunes, and they decide, in their arrogance, that "Hey, you know what would make this awesome? If we changed it to a alien invasion battle movie!" They're welcome to think that, but I purchased the romantic comedy. They don't get to change that on me.

    It's not legally tested, but I do wonder how much developers can change a game from its original foundations before it becomes a problem... legally. It enters customer-rights and advocacy territory.

    It doesn't matter if the game sinks or swims. They sold a game with consensual PVP at its core. Alternative servers are fine. Even alternative game modes are fine. Anything else would be a bait and switch. I'm glad that, at least on this one point, they've maintained their integrity and honor.
     
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  19. OxNull

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    Honestly needs a dedicated pvp server. The balancing act between the two is not going to work. All pvp players want is meaningful pvp and having Novia 100% pvp and loot drops would make that meaningful. The ability to not unflag would make that meaningful. But you cannot do that in the current server and there is always a compromise between pve and pvp. Being able to flag pvp when its convenient is not meaningful pvp. Meaningful pvp is having encounters that are not preventable or expected. With the balance of pve and pvp on current server that cannot be done. PvE takes higher order, I don't blame that most players are here to PvE and not mess with undesirable/stressful PvP. But some people want to start real wars, with real consequences and I can only see that happening with forced pvp and that cannot happen on a pve server.

    It is easy enough to farm exp so the disadvantage of starting over would not be bad, keep all paid items across the board. Most players would still play their established characters so I dont think the fracture would be too bad. And it would make it easier to make adjustments for pvp and not worry about pve balance.

    But fracturing is not always good especially with the player base the size that it is. Although the patch work to the current pvp system is not desirable..... The current pvp pop is already a low, I dont see a dedicated low pop pvp server as much a difference. You might actually find more pvp than on the current server because everyone you run into is red. Universe chat and what not helps in the low pop too.

    There has to be a parallel Novia shard out there somewhere that has forced PvP with loot drops. If there was a dedicated pvp server it would fix the issues of attachment to character loot because you can think of your pvp toon as your pvp toon and expect to loose your stuff. While on your PvE toon you can amass things you do not want to loose. Trying to mix pve and pvp leads to the ideas of no loot pvp as a compromise and only dueling, like what was mentioned > : (

    I honestly doubt we will get real pvp mechanics (wars and war games) ontop of all the other game content (pve) that needs to be done, which I think needs to be done. I think giving the pvp players their own sandbox will keep us happy while the reset of the game gets worked on. Again, balancing act between the two is not going to work and fracturing the player base might not be best. I just see it as an alt server. @Chris did get some new fancy networking upgrades.

    Offline play, PvE play, PvP play.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
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  20. eli

    eli Avatar

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    What's really ironic is that pkgo PvP is so much more balanced, despite it being a 2-year-old unpatched add-on to a fundamentally unbalanced game with no social features.
     
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