Why the travel map?

I actually would have preferred this. I love old school isometric games. I think Shadowrun Returns got it right. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with what we've got, I just would have been even happier with something a bit more old school!

 

Well i just played ultima exodus and quest of the avatar and the only perslective changes i saw were into dungeons and there were no overworld map changes unles u consider zoning into towns or going into combat but it really doesnt change perspective so idk what you are talking about how its similar to other ultima games

 

Yea, I was talking about the fact that there was a world map versus a local map, because I thought thats what you were referring to. Are you talking about the perspective changes?

 

To me the only downside to instancing is the PvP one. Part of playing king of the hill is being able to deny something to someone. e.g. I hold this mine, bridge, house and if you want it, you need to take it from me. And a piece of that play style is lost if you can just find your own instance.

This game will likely have some hybrid solution. Where there are control points, contested resources, certain objects like a castle where an attacker and a defender can have their fight. But most of the game allows people to avoid eachother who wish to.

 

Dom John's example I've said before, I thought was terrible.(The work he did was good.. I just don't like his ideas) I play and enjoy a lot of dual scale map games. What makes a good dual scale map system is keeping the art consistent (Think of Ni No Kuni or Super mario 3d World). You don't want different artwork making it feel like a totally different game now without good reason, such as mini-games. (yeah this is me talking immersion.. gasp). The fog of war was going to be really cool, they could have made it cover things up so you know you need to re-explore that area, It's good for hiding encounters (like the dragon from the world) The idea of showing a scene of you opening your map before you left or rolling it up and putting it away when you entered would be annoying, fun to see a few times, after that, No. imagine if it did that every time you left/entered a zone in any other game.

I'm disappointed that they moved in the direction they did, allowing camera movement at the sacrifice of the fog of war, but I'll trust Chris and team know whats best, if it wasn't going to add much to the game to keep a fog of war and camera movement helps a lot of people then thats fine.

yes, I've said this about 3 or 4 times in various threads but if people keep bringing it up I'll keep making my counter argument. (I wont copy/paste my old arguments though, I'll force myself to retype them to show I care that much about it)

 

I'm a big fan of isometric perspective also. Probably would have save a lot of development time if they did do it

(little late now)

 

@Mishri...It was Dom's idea that made me feel better about the overland map idea. I was quite shocked when I first learned that this game wasn't going to have persistant travel, and that we were going back to the 90's gold box style travel (which I liked in the 90's)...

I guess he just made it look better and not so cheesy. Some people will be turned off by it, I know that. I hope they can impliment it so that it won't take 10-30 seconds to load each time you enter a scene. This will turn people off.

 

Why are you thinking it would have saved dev time, if it would have still been 3d rendered? I guess they could have targeted lower poly counts.

 

The camera. Camera brings a lot of issues. Also your renderings will always show from certain directions, so you just need those to look good. You wont get any weird underside angles that also need to look good. I believe it also uses less processing power.

It just wouldn't be a very popular style these days.

oh and Lighting would probably be 100 times easier... (also that bit about only viewing from certain angles means your lighting just needs to look good at those angles)

 

Great game (look at highlight) .. and it does incorporates the seamless art style elements you speak off; but I imagine that the Dev's would maintain a seamless art style .. that would seem like an obvious choice, at least to me;

I'm not a big fan of fog of war nor am I a detractor of it, but if we have a map in hand - there is no need for it because you already know what is there ... what needs to be hidden is what lies in the hex - and until you walk there you won't know ... Civ fog of war works; because you don't know the terrain and because players are competing for resources .. I don't see a "huge" need for it in this game; don't really see a need besides making the player walk blindly ... and it does not make sense unless maps do not exist in the game world or the terrain as never been explored.

 

The travel map is just to much like an RTS to me. I keep expecting gengis khan to march his archers up and attack my panzers. To me it just seems like it doesnt fit. An imprtant part of strategy is surprise attacks and with everyone just meeting in the same hex to battle throws surprise ambush out the window. It was very gratifying taking people out on the way to the battle instead of just everyone zoning in and zerging

 

That really depends on how large the hex is and how it is constructed (if it's randomly generated etc) - or what style of player vs player comes about ... it also depends if you can see apposing forces on the overland map, if you occupy an area before others, etc .. that is a design issue for this type of game play system as apposed a dual map issue - at least to me.

 

What he said....actually no, I'll go one further and say total top-down view.

 

Exactly. I'm aware of the Devs saying some PoIs would have multiple entrances/exits... we even did some for the Unity Scene Jams.

It would basically be the same scenario as if you were killing 'Coon. Cover the dungeon entrance or further down at the choke point, a lookout near the portals, maybe another in the southern Ogre Lord area....

It all boils down to the same thing, but different perspectives.

 

I like the Dual Scale Hex map concept.

Dragon Age was mentioned earlier, but it, like Baldur's Gate only had specific areas that opened up as you progressed in the game accordingly. By comparison, EVERY area in SotA will open into a 3d map/scene, some may be basic terrain types with little to nothing in them except maybe a few animals or random monsters and maybe some Resources to gather, others will be specific points of interest with things to do.

Now for the fun part... those individual hexes can be swapped out for new ones so that more dyanmic events can occur throughout the land either planned or maybe even randomly depending on how the development goes. It also allows for a more personally contextualized game in that the hexes can change due to your input in the world (questing, etc) and those changes can be specific to where your character is in the game. If you're playing an Online version of the game, only those people who are at the same point in the game as you, such that the hex changes are present would be in your instance, while those who have yet to create those changes would get an earlier hex instance. The ability for the hexes/scenes to be changed like this allow for a more dynamic world than a single-scale map.

Finally, of course, is travel. Anyone who has played or is still playing WoW probably remembers how long it takes to run, on foot, north/south end to end of either continent. The Dual Scale map allows faster travel while the scenes retain the actual content.

I guess for me, growing up with the original Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, and so forth, the Overworld map concept is one that I remember well. Newer/younger gamers may not have the same connection.

 

Yes, those referring to those games "dual scale aspect" are referring to the Towns and Monster encounters. The dungeons are also changes but as you've seen, they switch to first perspective mode which changes things up yet more.

In the example of the monster encounters those are VERY small and very short encounters so imagine that concept scaled up a bit to a say almost as large as the Village instance size.Make one for PvP too. It's basically a randomizer mini-encounter based roughly around the terrain your character is on and the encounter type.

 

As long as they have expansive outdoor areas to explore I am happy.

I liked Wizardry Online for about a week, until I discovered there were just towns and dungeons, with no actual open world to explore. At that point, even though I liked so many other things, all the enthusiasm died.

 

Well i hate to break it to you guys but comparing past ultima games so called maps didnt bypass what would be content it created more oto go thru so the exact oppopsite of what sota does takes place

Sota bypasses what would be traversible terrain via a map. Other ultimas actually add terrain. I guess it depends on what you consider the main map. For me sotas main map is not the overhead map that skips terrain. You are in condensed move mode in say ultima exodus because the map enlarges but you move the same amount. In sota the map is used to avoid what would be regular terrain IE what the dev said about avoiding the mountain

 

Hmm.. I have no idea what you just said. What is mal? How are you avoiding terrain? mountains you can't pass over look to be part of the map, just like any other dual scale map game I've played.

 

Mal is map. Typo using cellphone. It is shortening the distance you travel by using a map to travel over hexes instead of thru an actual game world
I still dont see whats the big deal about swapping hexes. Basically they are small zones so phasing already accomplishes the content swap in other games so ts basically the same thing. Sure its smaller and effects a small portion of the map but still, its something that can already be done just by using smaller zones by phasing and id prefer it that way since it can be done seamlessly with no transition to a map. Wether its easier or faster is up for speculation as there is no way to prove it and probably the same could be done with a bigger or more efficient team.

So if the bonus is its cheap and easy to make incremental changes the its nothing new or revolutionary. At least nothing i would give up an explorable seamless world for besides we have no clue if they are just hyping since we cant test it

I dont see why we cant just stay in 1x mode and transition to zoom out when we want to quick travel. Say there is a road next to a forrest and the tile next to the road do you see the road and begining of a forrest while zoomed in? When you run to the edge of the hex does the firrest just end or does it not start until you enter the forrest POI? Why cant i walk from hex to hex in 1x mode so i can walk from the road thru the forrest why do i have to exit the road map and tile then move to the forrest POI to see a forrest if the map clealry shows a forrest next to a road there damn well better be a forrest next to the road