PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Hope im not going too far off topic right now. Its been tough to follow this post with work and all... But did someone say that stealing, thieving, and rogue skills were going to be PvP specific? As in... these skills cannot be used in single player or PvE? If that's the case then that's a bit disappointing.. =(
I love to rogue around every town I go to, players and all. But with the loot limitations and stuff it doesn't sound like being a theif or a rogue is going to get you anywhere. And if being a theif is going to be completely nerfed when it comes to stealing from players, then it should at least have some real decent PvE value.. UO trammel would have been gobs better if they didn't nerf PvE thieves. And it was a little disappointing that lockpicking was only useful for treasure hunting or raiding chests in dungeons. I want to feel like a fiend when im picking a lock and rummaging thru a chest. I want there to be a chance someone will say "GUARDS!" if they spot me grabbing the gold and jewels locked away at the rich man's house(NPC of course).
And... heres another thing id like to mention.. Being a rogue doesn't always mean that you got GM stealing.. Perhaps hiding and stealth yea.. But the main skills were lockpicking, hiding, and stealth really. And remove trap so you can quietly disarm traps without having to make a bunch of noise with the telekenisis spell. Pickpocketing itself didn't always get you the best stuff. Even without all the skills trained up, the key to being a looter/rogue is just persistence, and curiosity. A true "rogue" character looks at that chest in town that all the mighty warriors and mages who just want to go out and bash monsters ignore and thinks, "hmmm whats in this chest?" They work at it for awhile with lockpicks, build their picking skill up.. Go somewhere else, maybe chat it up with some other players.. Then they might spot something else that catches their interest. Maybe theres some loot somewhere that isn't locked up that they run into. Eventually they might find a chest that's pickable at their skill level.. Or a door! Now that bugged me that lockpicking didn't work on doors! I mean, if I watch the NPC baron in town for awhile and get his daily schedule down, and I know when he goes to bed I want to pick the lock to his home and snoop around and pinch a few things!
Go ahead and put a loot limit on players, but don't limit us from looting all the non-players(monsters in dungeons AND residents in the town) completely blind!

 

If I may add, in the real world there are not incentives for killing someone. Not only do you go to jail (hopefully), but you aren't allowed to take all the money the person had on them. People talk about it as risk and such, but when I hear conversations about full loot, it's hard not to interpret it as people wanting to take other people's stuff. I'm just telling the proponents of full loot that this is how it often sounds to a 3rd party.
I fully support people being able to set themselves to full loot, open PvP, etc... if that is the style they wish to play (preferably with a story tie-in).

 

I would like to see good Rogue skills for PvE purposes. It's a valid and fun archetype. I do not want to walk around, checking my equipment every 10 seconds for pick-pockets.

So, I do hope such skills are included and useful, but limited in a multi-player environment.

 

Actually my position is clear. If there were Real and Harsh consequences to deter pking I would be willing to accept it. By real and harsh I mean that you lose your character forever to either jail or capital punishment. Since no pvper on the planet will accept those real world terms, pking leads to a misbalance of murderers in the game world which leads in turn to griefing by some. The solution then is to not allow pking at all.

The term care bear is used as an offensive word to denegrate and demean non PvP players. That's why its not acceptable.

 

Dont know where you live but where I'm at the punishment for murder is t even as harsh as you want for a game, just sayin.

Edit: I am by no means pro to our laws here, they are beyond me.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, that's true but sometimes the more you put ridiculous rules on things the more people go out of their way to be jerks. My friend who played UO used to tell me about the folks who figured out the guards' agro radius and would hide just beyond that radius and prey upon folks who thought they were safe as they walked by. When you create an environment that makes the PvE folks feel protected yet claim to allow all this freedom, you end up screwing the PvE players because they try to operate like the world is lawful but criminals keep adapting to do them harm in ways that they aren't prepared for because the game isn't designed that way.
We're really doing the law abiding citizens a disservice by trying to create a world where they don't have to protect themselves because they do. No matter what you design, they are still not safe because there's someone out there who makes connections that you just don't see sometimes. Well either that or we won't be able to do anything.

 

Fair enough. For those outside of the united states (like me) I'd be willing to accept 25 years to life.

 

When I think about what I want to see from this game, I just try to think about some of my favorite memories from UO. What kept me playing that game? Why do I still think that was the best MMORPG I have played?

Simple: Danger and Adventure could come from anywhere.

Can this happen in any other game: So there I was mining in the wilds, my bags as well as my pack mule were ready to burst. As I was getting ready to travel back to town to smelt all this ore, a murderous dread lord comes into the clearing. My heart races, and I quickly drop a small pile of ore on the ground so I am no longer encumbered. I jump on my trusty steed and make a run for town. The villain grabs the ore I dropped and begins chase. His momentary pause to grab the abandoned ore gave me the space I needed. I hid in the thick brush, and the murderer ran right past. I was able to double back around and save the pack mule from a grisly fate as well.

I distinctly remember how hard my heart was pounding while playing that game and running for my virtual life. I have yet to have any other game bring that much sense of danger.

The adventure could be found anywhere: A simple foray into a dungeon, could turn into a several hour escapade to help a stranger recover their belonging from their corpse and the MOB who looted them.

So while it sucks when you loose all your stuff, I fully support open PVP with full loot. Anything short of that will just remove the sense of danger and adventure to be had from the game. To me that was what made UO fun. It emulated real life: You had to look out for scams, stay clear of danger, have a backup plan in the bank in case you loose everything.

I feel like I just cant say enough or express how fun UO was originally. If this game does not end up with the same type of rule set that gave life to UO, I will be very disappointed and will regret backing the game.

 

But the crux of that argument is what exactly constitutes a 'ridiculous' rule and what constitutes a perfectly valid one. It's hard to get people to agree on that. Given that premise, I opt for more safety over less.

Games are all about rules. I mean, a game is, essentially a collection of rules.

In real life, I value freedom over security in most cases. In games, I veer the opposite direction.

 

Let me preface this by saying: there is nothing wrong with what you're asking. In fact, as long as PvP remains consensual, I don't much care how the rest of it is implemented.

I do take exception to the over-used argument that "it's like real life."

I've been living real life for 36 years and I've never been chased by people with weapons. Never. Not a single time. I've never been robbed. I've never been randomly attacked.

Games where there are people out to kill you with very little consequence just to take all of your stuff, or simply because it seemed fun at the time are not very much like real life. Do those things happen in real life? Yes. Do they happen anywhere NEAR the frequency as in a completely open, non-consensual PvP game? No.

Games are NOT like real life. Thank the lord.

 

Well, we're making progress. Some months ago, you didn't really want to play multiplayer. Next month, you'll be running along side me as a pack of PKers chase us down because I bet you that you could not get within 50m of them and not be seen. That probably was the best 50g wager + weapon, potion, harvestable and other loot I ever lost.

That feeling? That is you sliding down a slippery slope! See you soon!

 

PvP players deserve Permadeath for inconveniencing someone with respawning? Now I understand Chris's need to point out how radical PvP players can get. (sarcasm on)

 

Lol! I doubt it. But you never know.

 

There’s no other possible deterrent but jailing characters for years of in-game time? That post is so muddled between pvp and pk, between the real and the virtual, between game incentives and world incentives. But unfortunately, I think its combination of self-confidence, muddled thinking and absolutism illustrates how it is that the current proposals have been brow-beaten so far towards the end of the spectrum where characters are always completely protected.

Incidentally, I'm still interested in hearing what things pve players wanted from this compromise, but didn't get.

 

Why do you insist on posting in PvP threads when you've previously made clear you were no longer going to keep doing so? This is not a personal attack against you but you've already made clear your PvE preferences and, not being a PvPer yourself, your input in these threads honestly carries no weight with the PvP community. We get it - you just want to mine rocks and slay the same NPCs over and over without fear of being ganked. Your wish has already been granted - keep your PvP flag off and don't join a PvP guild. Now please let the PvPers fight over how PvP can/should be done in this game to prevent it from being a second-rate, been-there-done-that, unsatisfying game.

 

I get what you're saying here. I understand what you want to accomplish, by focusing on the part of the community most affected by these proposals, but this thread is not the exclusive property of those who consider themeselves "PvPers." Anyone can post here as long as they stay relatively on topic and avoid flaming and trolling.

 

Can we get RR + OPEN + SAVAGE AND WILD PVP in SotA PLZ PLZ ??

All Consensual !

Why Not ?

 

For me?

first, PvE versions of the PvP events. Meteor strikes where mobs and NPCs become far more aggressive, but that increase the rewards in a similar way to the PvP versions; PvE versions of the castle sieges promised as a stretch goal; PvE versions of the hexes that are being reserved for PvP. I still hope to get those, mind you.

Second, a way to engage in limited scope PvP without loses if I die. I really enjoy PvP, but only if both when I engage in it is completely under my control, and there is no meaningful penalty for losing. The currently proposed death penalty will likely prevent me from ever attempting PvP in SotA.

BTW, the fact PvP is consensual isn't really a compromise. It's, instead, a promise made from the very start of the funding drive.

 

I have absolutely no idea what any of that means.