Is it me, or is it pay to win

^^^^

(I know... I was egging you on with playing the other side of the argument to hear yours.... *Baaaaaad Tachys*)

 

Wow that's a BRILLIANT way to deal with annoyed customers, instead of addressing concerns threaten them. And you wonder why I would strongly discourage anyone from buying into this

 

Honestly, man... just take a few breaths. If this has you knotted up that badly, talk to them directly. If that doesn't work, well... I don't know what to tell you.

 

I'd imagine that's not how they deal with annoyed customers if you actually talked to them and not us. But, they have what, a hundred K other people who don't need the drama?

( I don't include myself in that number because I am at work eating microwave popcorn. It's a slow day so I don't mind the drama)

 

And I've been poking a stick at it

 

Great reply and your views, hadn't looked at it like that, great and valuable contribution thank you for it.

 

Can't agree more with it.

 

That's just not true, as opportunity consists of among other things as availability of resources in this case money. Having less money directly gives you less opportunity

 

You are flat out trolling a memember of the community and have pretty much even admitted to it, instigating and inflaming the issue being discussed. This is not an acceptable use of the forums and breaks the Terms of Service and Rules.

You could be temporarily banned for your actions in doing so, so I on behalf of the community would appreciate that you not conduct yourself in this manner.

 

I think the mods are big and bad enough to do their own warnings and ban threatening, and under what "authoritah" are you talking on behalf of the entire community?

 

Throughout all of the items in the add-on section, I haven't seen anything that is a game-changer except for indestructible items [edit: oops, pledge tiers only :/ ] which give a huge advantage over the..well.. people who don't have indestructible tools.... Anyways, it seems to me that the 'win' in this game is who has the coolest looking house, and that is possible for everyone. Especially with the new player-owned town concept. It's hard to believe that there absolutely will not be any property available for newcomers.

With that said. This begs the question: what is being paid for, and what is being won? I was told before that it would be very similar to guild wars 2 style of purchases. Clothing/etc.
I just don't want to see (20k Gold for 20$) in the official store...

 

Strange you cite GW2, because GW2 sells gold in its official store (it's just not a one-step process). It's very easy to do, and all located in the same place, so I'm not sure I get the distinction you're trying to make. All you do is buy gems with real $, then convert the gems to gold via "currency exchange." There. In two steps, you just bought in-game gold with real money.

Even so, I have never noticed a meaningful advantage to players who buy gold with real money in GW2 vs. earning gold via playing (all except for the most lazy and unskilled of players). Yes, it gives you a shortcut to max crafting, levels, etc.... but considering the way the game works, having those things (and an endless stream of gold) is far less of an advantage than most players realize.

 

Personally, I've never played GW2, I was told by FireLotus one day.. It's a very loose distinction, but I did say "I just don't want to see (20k Gold for 20$) in the official store"

I think that earning the gold is it's own reward, and I agree that earning it sets the player up to keep earning it, rather than be forced to keep buying gold because of no monetary foundation.

 

If you read what i quoted (Envy) i expected you to understand that it was a hypothetical example of how real life richness can give a advantage with this kind of crowd sourcing. Envy had the unemployed as example and i had the rich boy. Real life wealth will give you a upper hand, an advantage, with this kind of crowd sourcing.

What is unfair here is not that the kid have a million but the fact that his real life richness will give him advantages ingame, he will come better prepared to the game and this crowd sourcing model make just that possible. Everyone should start the game with same opportunities. You should not be able to buy the best house spots while others have to take what is left over.

Lift your eyes and look on other websites like for example MMORPG.com and you will understand that this crowd sourcing model isnt very popular at all. There are also players in this forum just like me that dont like it.

I am no royal founder and i have no clue where you got that from? Give me a quote on that.

I prefer Star Citizen crowd sourcing and i thought this was a forum for discussing different parts of the game, also the crowd sourcing model.

I still have some hopes for the game as a different loot system and hopefully a more skill based combat system so no i wont sell. I am not in any way concerned about i might loose some money, it no problem at all, what we discuss here is if the game will give and advantage to the player that invested the most money, will lots of real life money give you a upper hand before the game started.

I have never critized this or that person for his or hers high pledge what i have critiziced is the crowd sourcing model, that is a huge difference.

I suggest you re-read my replies.

With this crowd sourcing model this game will never have a level playing field.

The ones with really high pledges will have a upper hand to good house spots, they can pick their spot before anyone else. This will give them a better placement for their vendors and a advantage against others that want to become a successful merchant ingame.

 

What? How can one person contradict themselves so much in one post.

Star citizen - buy the best ships for real money, upgrade hanger for real money, it has a subscription model that basically gives you something no one else can have, you can buy in game currency for real money.

For $10000 someone will have 20,000 UEC, a fleet of spaceships that actually gives a person POWER over me, not cosmetics, not a place to hang my pictures, actual power, and a deluxe hangar. You know what I have a little ship and 1000 UEC.

You seriously have a warped view of crowd sourcing.

tdlr version: These game makes the worst possible choices you can do in terms of microtransactions, no matter how much time you're going to spend on it, somebody who spends money is always going come out on top of you, but its a business decision, and it worked damn well for SC. People spending a lot of time and money will by and large be unbeatable unless you throw in hundreds of hours to catch up. Thats just how it is. Do not come in here with a false dichotomy.

Like this one about star citizen p2w or this one or maybe this one on reddit

 

Sorry brah, definitely had the same opportunity.

 

The way you speak about things, you make it sound like gold-selling and power-leveling and buying rare items/max-level characters NEVER happens in other games.... You talk about how the crowd-funding model ensures there will never be a "level playing field," but that ignores the fact that no such thing exists in other comparable games either.

Would you argue that people can't buy gold in WoW, or buy characters/rare items, or pay to have somebody power level their characters, etc.???? We both know that ALL games of this type can never fulfill your desire for everybody to start from scratch and without any advantage over other people because EVERY game in this genre is rife with inequality. Why pick on SotA for failing to provide a "level playing field" when NO other game like SotA offers a "level playing field"? It seems like an unfair standard to hold SotA to when no other game does what you want. If there were some games that do offer all players a "level playing field" at the start, then by all means, criticize away... But, from where I sit, I can't see a single online game that truly offers a play experience that features a "level playing field." It's an illusion. A mirage. Pursuing it is a trip down the road to perdition.

As for games like WoW, which I guess might seem more "fair" than SotA is based on some of the things you've said in this thread: What about people who can afford to buy/build multiple computers and have multiple accounts, using their multi-boxing and army of alts to out-compete everybody? What about people who are wealthy and don't have to work, so they can play 18+ hours a day, 7 days a week? Or what about people who are broke, living at home (being supported by parents), who can play unfettered because mom and dad foot the bill and they don't have to be ambitious and get a job? Should it bother me if they achieve more in the game than I do? (If it does, I think I need to look into playing a different type of game).

The hard truth about online gaming is that there will always be discrepancies between players based upon income levels, computer hardware, geographic location, skill level, time available to play, etc. Everybody beginning on a "level playing field" is simply an impossible dream because there are so many compounding variables in the mix that "fair" and "even" isn't realistically possible. To operate under the condition that games of this type must offer something that is impossible to achieve will only lead to discontent. You have every right to be upset, but I'm just saying it's not logical because the conditions you are applying to this game are not fulfilled by any other comparable title.

 

It is you that dont understand the difference btw getting the best spots for houses before anyone else (an advantage) and getting a bigger house then the next guy. This is something i have been saying throughout this thread. This discussion from me have nothing with the size of houses to do. I dont see a bigger house as a problem whatsoever. I dont see a bigger ship as a problem.

The problem with SotA crowd sourcing is that it give players with high pledges the right to place houses before anyone else. That is a huge advantage as i see it.

I suggested instanced housing in another thread and i still suggest just that since it will be fair towards all pledgers.

All vendors should be in public places cause that way noone get the best merchant spot cause they happened to have a better real life economy.

Everything you can buy in Star Citizen is available ingame. As long as it is like that then it is no problem. Buying big ships or a fleet that others can get by ingame playing is just ok.

A good PvP guild like mine wont have any problem taking our place in a game like SC. If the other guy bought a fleet make no difference whatsoever cause with time we will have his fleet or something similar.

If he could buy a fleet of ships noone could get ingame by playing the game that would be a problem though.

So basically, letting players with a better real life economy get to place houses before everyone else is the problem.















There

 

My "poking a stick at it" comment may seem to indicate what you are talking about here, if you completely ignore the post that says I am also making a few tongue-in-cheek posts along the way. The rest of the discussion was simply point and counterpoint. He made statements, I asked questions to clarify his position, and provided answers that refuted what he claimed. None of it was done, as was stated, to get his goat. But hey, thanks for the warning.

 

Games i like to play start with a leveled playing field, not as in this game with a unleveled playing field before the game even started.

I dont like gold sellers in any game or the possibility to buy gold. What i see as a problem here though is that you can buy the right to place houses before anyone else. You buy that right with real life gold. When certain players placed their house rest can take what is left.

That is to me a elite game that favor certain players.

I played loads of MMO games that dont favor players like this game do. And i am far from the only one, read what other MMO players over at MMORPG.com say about SotA crowd sourcing model, it is not any nice words, wouldnt you say?

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.c...s-a-devoted-fan-of-all-ultima-until-this.html

So you see, SotA sticks out and their crowd sourcing model is not something i want to see as a role model for future MMO games. That would be a horrible future for MMO gaming.

Paying with real life money and that way get ahead should never be allowed.

As long as players achieve with ingame play it is all fine. Some play more then others but they have to buy their house after ingame playing. They need to collect gold ingame and then buy a house. Some do it faster then others cause they have the opportunity to play more then the other guy and that is all fine to me.

That was how it was in UO and that is how it should be in SotA.

Having a good real life economy should not get you ahead before the game even started.