Afraid that the combat system might get ditched

Well, the way I see it is the deck is like a stream of consciousness in the situation:

You train and prepare; and the moves you prepared to use in your mind come up, and you can prepare as many moves in your mind as you want -- you don't have to exclude any if you don't want to, but it will be more difficult to use them reflexively. The more skilled you are, the better a focus you are and the more you can think of reflexively, apply more moves to the right situation, and apply them faster. You can change your set of moves, but with a focus cost. (We can hotswap decks).

Hopefully in the future the glyphs will be more adaptive to context, so ranged attacks will come up when we're at a distance while close attacks when we're close in, and healing spells when we're low on health and not when we're perfectly healthy. That will make it a lot better.

 

Thats an interesting take on it. Thanks for sharing.

 

I'm still not convinced... like how can you forget to use a potion ?

I don't mind limitation to actions, but it has to be realistic and roleplay like...

can you drink a potion well with heavy plate gauntlets, a sword in one hand and having to keep your balance with the other because you're running ?

Show me that, not some random fake chaos...

 

You can't forget how to use a potion, but a potion can't be that easy to use in battle.

I mean, this thing in modern MMOs where you have a belt full of available potions and you drink them in a second is just plain stupid.

At least in UO it was a bit more realistic, but still too easy.

 

yup exactly... !

as I'll say thousand times and sometimes I feel like our Lord and Ladies forgot about UO is, it was never finished, never even close, and the genius behind it was living and breathing, we've recently seen the creator of the UO intro video interview Lord Darkstarr, that was very interesting. It shows, even more to me ; because I've had the chance to talk with some UO programmers who had GREAT ideas like we're just talking about but only waited for lag and hackers to go away to implement.

If ONLY those ideas came into being, we would be trying to buy back the game from EA hah thats one funny tought

Lets not brush it off, EA did some things good too, lets not brush things off like madmen looking for grey and dull peace.

WINDMILLS !!!

*runs away*

 

There is already reflexes and humans involved, ie the player. If I am a mage and I have 1-10 skills on my skill bar (or even 20 skills or 30 skills if you use alt and ctrl as well) then I need to know what those skills are and what they do and the less I use them the weaker my reflexes would be. For example fireball is ctrl + 7. Now if I want to cast fireball I need to instantly know which combination is that fire ball. Also I could CHOSE to have a simpler layout with less skills which would mean being able to click it faster because I don't have to remember as many but I have less choices too.

THIS is actually FAR more realistic than this contrived magic the gathering meets guitar hero system

 

"We All Have Many Types of Fun in the Fighting Skills"
Here's a fighting weight class I love to watch where I live, where fun and dominating discipline meet as friends...

"Our True Fun"


For some fun may mean a wide bar across the screen and for others that may take away from the fun and thrills within the game.
I just feel that games seem more industrial with so much on the screen and buttons to push... just seems more mechanical than what life demonstrates to me.
Within the above video, I think it's "the way that the fighters are playing their deck of cards" and what they are getting out of them which can be seen in the way that they are smiling. Learned behavior is something the human mind has a hard time overcoming and we've been taught how and with what to play these styles of video games a very long time. I know that outlook may not fulfill some people's desires for what they want, and how they want it, but new for me is a great change I invite to my combat gaming because all the other games have what I and the rest of the gaming community has been taught to understand is the only way. I like random and another wants more control.
Conversations like this are much the same as people have when watching or talking about a football game, where comments such as "he should have done it this way, or he should have gotten that goal" seem more in tune with the tone I'm reading here, where second guessing the player or coach seems in style and supporting your home team's efforts seem in the flavor of the discussion. I've seen many of my friends discuss a single event that happened on a playing field for hours and even days, yet on the field and history of that moment, "it only took a moment" and the player that was physically involved in that moment only had certain options available to him during that moment. But everyone had so much enjoyment talking about that short moment for a very long time afterward.

For me, I want more colorful and variety for which our game developers have shown to us thus far, because I'll always be drawn to their creative new flavor in gaming and if I want some other game's style of combat, then I'll go play it. No one is being held hostage here. I pledged because I believe in the developer's vision and the innovations they've shown to me in the past. So whether or not the random card combat design is here or needs to be scrapped is not in any of my consideration. The only considerations I have now to offer, is anything I can think of that may further enhance the developer's creativity within the random card combat parameters of design.

I like this game's combat design, another may not enjoy it, but if the game is not for you, then it's more for me and I want to see even more options in spells, melee skills and glyph random combat.

"The Color Coding"
Currently I enjoy the Color Coding of the different skills, because I find that I'm choosing what to use more by it so I don't have to concentrate so much on what's being presented in my random card set. In this way I don't need to closely examine what that skill is, I just need to know if I want to defend, attack or heal (blue, red and green).

But if I later desire a bar with all the skills set up as a "Dallas Style Set", then I can have that too because that is an option here and then program my keyboard to fit it.
We truly have it all here, any way you want it, but if a player wants more reward, then there's much more reward in the use of the random deck.... of which I think we need even more reward for opting for it's more challenging usage.
Trammel & Fel are here in SotA, but many won't notice the risk more than others will....
~Time Lord~

 

2 problems with that first is that if all you are choosing is attack, heal or defend without knowing what the spell is then that is a really stupid system which completely takes away any tactics at all, in fact that is EXACTLY what a button mash is

Second, your exactly right about learned behaviour, this is why this system is so stupid (well one of the reasons). A fighter, a Mage, a solder or a boxer or whatever, you spend years training so these moves ARE instinctive and now the game wants to pretend that you would just forget them when you needed them???

A Mage is not going to forget how to cast, ice blast and randomly cast fireball at a fire elemental anymore than a solder is going to forget how to use his anti tank weapon when he sees a tank and suddenly start shooting with his pistol. It's so stupid and contrived. A newbie might panic, but they are already going to forget which button casts fireball anyway, a veteran will instinctively press it. It's far more realistic

 

"It's a word thing, but a funny one the way you describe it"
Well, you choose the word "forget" and I choose the word "opportunity". So for me, it's not that the Avatar forgot the skill, it's just that the Avatar hasn't been presented the opportunity to use or employ that skill.
It's peas vs carrots, but they both explain food.
What the word "forget" implies, is that the Avatar doesn't remember, which is a funny way of viewing the mind of the Avatar, maybe they are mentally challenged after arriving on the planet But to explain the ways that combat is a bit of luck, which in the real world it does have, I use the explanation as presenting the opportunity. But this is a fantasy land so anything is possible here. Luck may play no part of fantasy if that's where the game is set to... I mean there is no real fireballs coming out of thin air or ice elemental in real life either. So sure, the Avatars could be mentally challenged in a world where luck had no part in combat... I can see that...

But I'm not the creator or manufacturer of this game, so I can't change the game for you
But I do think there are ways to address the game for those that wish for a less challenging fixed combat card system... "It's just a matter of solution for the player who wishes for a less challenging game to play". But in the current system, by spending so many points to overcome the challenges of the random card combat, I think it will take such a player much more time to be competitive in PvP once we do have skill gain because of their need to overcome their desired all fixed deck.
We can all have it our way here in SotA, just not right now with the current number of skill points. But I'm not the creators or any developer, so I can't help you with your objections to it, unless more skills and more skill points are added as a result of the developers finding out that some players would prefer or have no need to PvP very well against players that do use the random deck.

So, I wish I could help you, but that's all the solution I see to alleviate the problems you see in the game
~Time Lord~

 

You aren't as experienced or as good as you think you are. This is what alot of people's opinions boil down to.

The combat system, while obviously needing work, is original, challenging and player skill based. Its removes the latency advantage (thanks GCD) and makes combat tactical. Seeing its alpha I dont get the uppity and people talking like they are an expert. Things are added for reasons. The CD prevent the person with lowest latency getting more attacks in.

There is a much broader picture here then being discussed. Chivalry style combat doesn't work for MMOs. So stop bringing it up. Play chivalry with a 300 to 450 ping n tell me how fair it is.

The deck combo means you are watching your opponent, moving, building combos and planning 3 steps ahead. Its great!

Instead of giving up n crying on forums, next release spend a few hours learning the intricacies. Youre not going to be a superstar without practice. Goes for everything in life.

 

Because insulting people is a great way to get them to listen to your point of view.

 

Im not trying to convert anyone.

Obviously there are exceptions but I seen so many of these posts, then people offering advice and help. The same crew not taking advice, giving up and whinging on the forums.

Builds were posted, meet ups were offered. Yet they stayed here not even trying and they all start with I am experienced and awesome but....

If you spent anytime learning the combat system there would be deeper argument then game a is better coz or game b does it so much better.

Again there are exceptions and I apologise if you took offence, its just a certain attitude i am targeting here.

 

Where do you feel that the player skill comes in when the game decides for you what skills you will have available?

Actually the most common complaint with this system is that you are constantly watching your hotbar instead of your opponent.

That is a whole lot of false assumptions about the majority of people that are talking negatively about the combat system in here.

Perhaps if you took the time to form an argument other than "I like the combat system so quit your whining!!1!" then you could be a part of this deeper argument about the system as a whole?

People providing feedback about the game is a good thing. Not everyone has to blindly love everything the devs do, and if you were to actually read some of the discussions you would see plenty of good points and valid arguments going both ways regarding the combat system. Popping into a discussion and offering nothing but "quit whining" is not at all constructive and is contributing far less than anyone else has so far in this thread.

 

Of course we took offense... and if you're trying to fix attitudes on a forum which means by definition pitting opinions together, good luck !

You guys simply don't get it do you... as if a game could be all math. I assure you I totally won tournaments with my 14.4 modem while others were playing on a T-1 in texas... its intuition, and meditation, and balance, and restraint...

The latency advantage... right, that means the game is too immature in the way it sorts out libs and assignement on VMs. It's crystal clear what the problem is, and we're trying to put bandaid on a gaping wound. UO had the same gaping wound but the fact that it was open-ended through the client and not a cloud it was more apparent because hackers took advantage, now we're going to brush it under the rug ? I know exactly what I'm talking about because I've delivered scripts that were used by EA to fix the HUGE lib architecture failure.

Yea some of us haven't tried hard as you seem to expect us to, we just don't even feel like going out and testing even . I did tons of other stuff... but I'm thinking I'm going to become a crafter now.

Maybe my name could be : The chair smith.

 

"Professor Richard Garriott and the Portalarium Team of Gaming Wizards Game Development Course 101"
One of the things I find most funny around here, is the amount of game programers and developers on our forums all here to take Professor Richard Garriott and his team's classes on game development.
Many universities would love to have such a professor teaching any of their game development classes... and that list of colleges would include every university that offers such a course... "because they couldn't afford to pay this team enough money for them to do that for them".
Yet here in our forums and everywhere Richard is speaking on or off the web, those persons that would love to take his game development course are, and getting the finest education on the subject anyone could ever find anywhere, "at rock bottom pricing".

For as little as a $45 dollar pledge, covers our entire course studies for an entire year.
We can argue and gripe about the curriculum, what the teachers are saying and doing...
and we don't get expelled unless it's for forums bad behavior Now That's a Value!
"How I wish I were young to be able to take advantage of this great class room"
~Time Lord~

 

Are you suggesting that all of us players don't actually know what feels fun for us to play? And further that we should simply shut up and deal with whatever crap mechanics the devs put in place because they know better than us?

 

In fact the truth is the world isn't ready for what we teach them and we take lots of "risk" in exposing our ideas in public, yes the same kind of "risk" portalarium proposes us with the god-mode pvp flag.

I know I'm not the only one that thinks we should restructure from the ground up, and we tought the same 15 years ago, we just didn't understand it well, or at least each of us understood different parts.

When I hear someone say that the IMPLEMENTATION of trammel/fel went bad because he took the time to analyse from his point of view I tend to listen. Then I realise hey here's another person that knows exactly what the problem is with medieval social farmville.

We all have this vision, and being pitted against EA's UO and not RG's vision of UO is to say the least insulting.

We know the game would have gone on if there wasn't tons of hackers and people that deliberately misused game mechanics, and as Lord DarkStarr stated those who hoarded and didn't understand the economy was supposed to balance itself if you actively put ressources back in it.

There is tons of examples like this, and everyday I wake up to see someone on the other side of the earth took the same conclusions.

Yet we are faced with moving a mountain, because the goal is deep, its spiritual, it is a cry of mercy ; asking for the avatar to be freed, which is arguably the end game of our Liege's plan.

But the truth is, with UO... the shroud has been ripped away from us, its a death shroud now and we're happy wandering as ghosts until the curse is lifted.

It's really that simple, we're not going anywhere.

 

We all came here for some reason and I enjoy seeing good development done by good developers. You and I have gifted pledges, so I naturally assume that we both support the game as a whole. You and I seem to differ in support of the combat design. I like it and you seem to need something the game isn't offering without less reward in return.
I do sympathize with your position of objection, yet I don't support your view. It's unlikely that the game will be changing direction in my opinion, yet you support the idea that they will.
I'm certainly no one's judge here Preachyr, but I do stand by my views and offer suggestions how to overcome such things.

(((adding more skills and skill points would provide enough points so that those that desire a Dallas Style Tool Bar "card deck")))
It may not win any PvP Tournaments against random card players but it would provide what you want from our game...

You may be disappointed with SotA's Card Combat System, but you didn't buy the game from me and I'm not likely to change my mind in adapting my play style to the game's style, because I like it
~Time Lord~

 

After all of the discussion pro and con, the final question that has to be asked to all of the players involved is simple: "Is it fun"?

My answer is a strong "ABSOLUTELY NOT" at this point.

1. It's an immersion killer. I spend more time looking down at the bottom of the screen than at the great graphics going on up above. You could completely remove the 3d world and just have some text numbers up there representing my health and my opponent's health and it wouldn't be much different.

2. The Random Number Generator is in control, not the player. No matter how great a deck you think you've created, you're still going to get screwed over by the RNG at some point. The sad part is that the PvE monsters don't seem to be hindered by this at all. They're tossing out their best shots and not staring at slugs apparently!

3. Slugs. (or just bad draws) So there I was, a valiant Knight decked out in my shining plate armor, wielding a long, sharp pointing metal thing that I just apparently cannot remember what it does. Do I swing this thing at the enemy? Poke them with it? Right now I can only seem to remember how to drink a health potion, block with my shield or fire an arrow. What IS this long, sharp, pointy metal sticky thing I have in my hands?!?! Someone PLEASE tell me!

4. No one wants to play the hotkey bar. It's there for players to *assign* actions so that they can use KEYBOARD hot keys to trigger them at the appropriate time. This whack-a-mole card system just doesn't fit as a player interface.


Can you imagine fighting some MOB that has deadly poison, feeling the crush of that poison quickly draining your life away and begging for the group healer to save you, just to hear "I can cast Cure light and Create Food, would that help?" instead?????

 

Or to look at it in real world terms, you take a bullet and scream MEDIC and the medic runs over and sees a sucking chest wound and says "oh I have forgotten what this is and how to treat it" or "ok sucking chest wound, sorry all I can currently treat is cardiac chest pain, how about I give you some GTN instead?" (GTN which will drop the blood pressure killing someone who is suffering shock). Its completely stupid. In my volunteer role I volunteer for an Event Health Service and though I have a certificate 3 and other members have a certificate 2 I have NEVER witnessed anyone treating a patient say "sorry I cant use O2 right now because I don't have a card for it" or "Sorry I can only treat anaphalaxis right now, how about I treat your sprained ankle for that?"

As someone else said before, the only explanation for this which is the LEAST bit "Realistic" is all our avatars are suffering Alzheimer's.

Actually here's an idea, how about we treat this like the bucket challenge, and we all donate $100 to Alzheimer's SA and our avatars get cured from our Alzheimer's and can play like sensible people