Consensual pvp???? Stay a While and Listen Why this is no fun.....

I would RP with OME, "hail fine sir i see that that monstrosity of a pkr ganked ye too! Lets team up and go get him!"

 

thanks for understanding how blaquerogue plays!
I wouldnt have to sit out for a month since i have back up gear! if i did it would be to make, buy, or adventure for the best i could get.
Yes blaquerogue would be wearing his best gear he possibly could because he doesn't want to meet the enemy who has the best gear! When he himself does not! (sounds like ancient wisdom there)

 

They want you to wear your best stuff, unless they say they are not putting in item affinity, that is.

If that best stuff is made up of rare resources crafted into fine equipment and you lose it. Then you are back into common equipment. If everyone has backups, and backups for your backups, then it's not that rare at all.

Best gear vs whats available. 2 different worlds of gear. 2 different worlds of PvP. 1 world can and will prey on the other. You might not but some will. If you don't see this as a problem you haven't been listening.

 

what is wrong choosing an option to go full loot pvp and losing your nice stuff, and having to go make it again? I know exactly what i pick if i pick to be fully looted and im willing to accept that! Why get nice weapons and armor that may give you an edge in a fight, if your not going to use it? What if your nice armor and weapons get destroyed in a quest PVE, and no one can repair or make it? or it takes you a month to remake it? pretty much the same, apparently you dont mind losing it in PVE, but to lose it in PVP whats the difference? See personally i dont mind losing it to another player. If they are better than me and i got into that fight, i could have run, i could have not opted for PVP full loot! but i didnt run and i opted for PVP full loot seems like that becomes my own fault, im not going to complain about it! I picked it!

Oh and i think it is wrong for somone to gank some noob! So i would probably go after them and kill them (my rp)

 

"Game of Thrones" is an awesome series! One of the most realistic ones back in medieval days (before all the magic creatures and stuff came in to the movie)
One particular part i liked right at the beginning, when the guy Deserted the "Nights Watch" and came upon the King (Stark) and his men and family, he warned of something coming, and admitted he had broken the one rule of nights watch (deserting) the punishment was death. The young boy that would take the kings place one day looked away when his father was about to behead this dude. The older brother grabbed the kids face and said you have to watch this! King Stark lobbed of the deserters head! He turned to his boy and said " The kingdom has rules, that need to be enforced, and as much as I didnt want to kill him, i had too! "Why asked the kid?", the Kings response was "if i do not enforce the rules there are no reasons to have them, and being a king when rules are stated, i need to be able to follow through with the punishment, so others understand those rules cannot be broken, If i let him go, then I would not be a worthy king, and people would not follow my rules! (something to that effect) it made perfect sense, that is really how it was back in those days. It was brutal! If you haven't seen "Game of Thrones" I highly recommend it! It is probably one of the best medieval movies of all! (fantasy) If you havent seen "Game of Thrones" shame on you! especially if you like games like this (if you read it then your good to go also)

 

Reading the last two pages was honestly painful.

Blaquerogue, I don't think you ever got the point of ristra's comments. To make it blatantly clear, you may PVP one way but others do not. The system failed in UO and would do the same here because people (note, maybe not you but a lot if others) will use the cheapest gear they can get to be competitive....which totally ruins the economy, ie skewing the value of cheap items. Naked mages anyone?

I will tell you what will happen, you will put on your best gear and a crew of guys with not so good gear will swarm you kill you and take your gear. Totally your choice of course, but I think you will be in a minority as to what a person will wear, as history if UO shows.

Regardless, that is all moot if the population isn't high enough to make enough people to even see anyone in game to that extent.

 

See this is what I am talking about, unrealistic rules. You just turned it all into what you do and want, not what will happen.

You and I both know that there would be plenty of highly geared PvPers feeding off of those that are not geared. There would be highly skilled PvPers wearing crap gear feeding off those that are not skill. Proof: pre-Tram UO - it was rampant.

 

The system failed in UO

i think the full loot system worked very well and in other mmos failed.

it was a balance out of self crafted items and magic items you could find. i personally would have liked it more ,if only enchancement stones would have dropped and more rarly weapons .

in ultima everyone wanted to have a nice blue armor or the ranger set even when it was very rare and too sad to use in open world pvp. why ? because there was the server down !!! 20 min to go crazy every day. everyone stormed out with rare pets the best gear and caused a pvp massaker because the last 20 mins didnt got saved.
and that noone used rare stuff and vanq weapons is not true . being a stats lost pk in ultima was very hardcore , it was not allowed to rip with your char ,or you could made a new one. so for sure every red used only the best items possible and not some crap exeptional gear the open pvper used. what you are telling is simply not true

 

All that sounds really bad to be honest.

 

Yes yes, lets design the game around what SOME will do and forget about what SOME will not do. Hey, "I play a PvPer that never dies and no one can defeat me" so lets make PvP death perma death too.

Some will wear their best gear. They will lose it. The cost of death has many many levels.

A durability based death cost is completely under the devs control. Still not getting this are we.

 

permadeath in ultima was a very hard punishment for the pks, but it made them want to wear the best gear. someone who hunted one down got all the best gear his head which brought gold if it was a famous pk and a great feeling because you know he will be pissed like hell.

perfect risk vs reward , maybe a bit hard punishment especially when you could get a con lost one day.

but it balanced ultima online very well. you could never find 100 pks directly out of the town killing all noobs. sometimes you found some in the dungeons or outside.
i never met a person who quit with ultima because of full loot.

most people used there pk rarly and had a chaos order char or faction guy to not get red.

 

People with weak gear farming folks with good gear just doesn't seem like reality to me unless you are running in dangerous areas alone.
In my experience people with weak gear get killed over and over and really it comes down to how much of a difference the gear makes in a fight.
I'm thinking if you are in a group and you die perhaps there should be a timer for when a person can loot. To prevent folks from snatching loot
before they die even when the group wins. I'm sure there are many bright ideas that could
make this all work. If folks put in half the thought into making a full loot world work that they put into keeping full loot out of the world I'm
sure you would find many bright ideas. And people wearing cheap gear to farm good gear seems like an easy fix if its even a problem in the first place.
Ultima Online was the first mmo and it probably wasn't as easy to fix stuff back then. I'm sure they were tied up with just fixing other stuff.
If I was in a world where mobs of cheap gear could farm my good gear I would gladly take the challenge of avoiding those situations and preventing
them from happening. I will say, I don't have the experience with this issue that you guys do so I don't understand the situation as well.
But really it sounds a minor issue that, if needed, could easily be resolved. Especially in this day and age. But yah, perhaps I don't understand the depth of the problem.

 

I guess this contradicts my statement earlier on what to do when you don't have good gear. But finding folks running around without a big enough group wearing good gear
is part of the game. There are so many ways things can play out in a world like this. It would all play out more like the real world. If i lost my good gear over and over it would be my own fault
unless there was a way to exploit. And many times I would lose my good stuff simply because I'm not as good at pvp as others. I might consider taking a different role in the world where I'm more
effective. The everyone should be able to win mentality has made it so all the rp events that unfold in a realistic setting don't happen.

 

Still don't get it I see.

It's not about those PKs. It's about the people those PK's target. How long does it take from someone to get back into the best gear, only for someone to take it again. The harder it is to get the best gear the more punishment this is. Those PK's design their play around attacking those without the best gear, so they don't actually risk losing their best gear.

I know I know, don't die, join a guild, stay in town, learn to play, what ever other rule you put on the system.

What you have just described is a gear grind. Use cheap gear until you get better. Only with full loot, someone takes your work away from you, then you have to grind all over again.

The devs could make the grind very easy but that completely devalues the good gear.

 

"What you have just described is a gear grind. Use cheap gear until you get better. Only with full loot, someone takes your work away from you, then you have to grind all over again."

I don't see the problem with this. There are many ways to get good gear. From crafters, pve and simply defeating someone with a little better gear.
Forming battle plans with guilds or groups and so on. Taking a different role in the world where you are more effective. . Other folks handing you better gear.
So many possibilitys. Everything would play out like it would in any realistic setting. If there was a faction preventing anyone from getting better gear that was
constantly successful I would look forward to the challenge. But I do think there is a lot more to it then I understand and would have to see how everything
plays out to see the problems and ponder solutions. I think all games will have their problems to work out. Whether its full loot or not.
I think the lack of full loot takes a lot away from the game as I've pointed out earlier. And I'm sure full loot has an impact on certain aspects.
So being that both ways have their problems I wouldn't imagine this argument is relevant in terms of full loot vs no loot. I think solutions can be found
for those who want a full loot experience. And I think solutions can be found for those who want no loot.

But upon thinking of what you said it occurred to me there is a lot more to it. And perhaps you are making points that are over my head.
I'm going to keep thinking on all this.

 

If you have it figured out that its not possible to make a good game with full loot without compromise then that is something I haven't figured out yet.
And I look forward to future games which attempt to make it possible and see the ideas they come up with.

 

Whether full loot or not I'm still very excited about Shroud of the Avatar. And the more I hear about what Portalarium is planning the more excited I get.
This games gonna be sweet.

 

well its my personal game play i cant tell you or anyone else how to play your game but i do know how ill play mine

 

Full loot isn't the problem. Full loot, as an option is very possible. As many have said before, they choose that risk.

It's when full loot, optional or not, is set into the open world PvP equation that there is a problem. We all approach open world PvP in our own way. Full loot takes the open world and shifts the mitigation of loss to be about losing loot. If this was a sand box game this would be less of a problem, crafting is still going to be making economical gear mostly.

Since this is a game with content, content being the opposite of sandbox, all sources of death would need to include full loot to balance full loot PvP. Die to a player, they loot you, die to a MOB it loots you. The cost of death becomes normalized. Then the devs would simply need to balance the recovery time to the cost.

Short version: Full loot can not be designed around highly geared players attacking lesser geared players. Open world PvP does this. Adding full loot to open PvP turns these lesser geared players into loot pinatas.

 

I can't remember the thread or who said it. But the idea of full loot being turned on if you loot someone is interesting.
They said that maybe it could be based on virtue like if you loot someone your more evil. I liked nets reply that looting someone isn't
necessarily a bad thing if the person your looting is evil. And that full loot should be turned on if you loot someone and leave the virtues out of it.
I personally would rather virtues stay out of it because I'm verily likely to disagree with what is virtuous in the storyline.
For instance, I was playing Ultima the other day and the gypsy was asking me questions. And the answer I would choose was never available.
But I'm really interested in the idea that if you loot someone full loot gets turned on. And I think it should get straight to the point.
Full loot if you loot someone, not slowly make it so you can be looted more and more. Someone might kill me and take my uber gear then
I can only loot one item off them when I get them back. Straight to the point, if you loot someone full loot is turned on.
That ways if people don't want full loot turned on they won't loot you. Also to prevent full loot being turned on when someone accidentally loots
someone, an "Are you sure?" message pops up the first time. Just seems like a really interesting idea to me.