Consensual pvp???? Stay a While and Listen Why this is no fun.....

My statement takes this into account. I also take into account that rare resources are actually rare.

Simple, it contradicts the overall gearing schema they have outlined. Case in point:

Which players do you tune your content for? The PvPers in throw away gear or the PvPers in high end rare gear?

The devs are using item affinity to keep you in your gear. Full loot, even if it's a small population that opts into it, breaks this mechanic.

 

As expected, I mention PvP generically and you come in and impose your unrealistic rules on the entire post. Just because YOU will not loot what you do not need does not mean everyone else will be the same. The median defines the norm but the extreme polar must be accounted for. This isn't about your vision on how PvP should be played, this is about how, historically, the human acts in any given situation.

You think can honestly tell me that you will put 2 months (random amount of time for example purposes) of effort into building your PvP set. Then go out into a full loot PvP world, lose and get looted. THEN go back and put 2 more months into getting that gear? No, you will go with what is the best possible gear you can afford.

Gearing for the world is based on what gear you can get your hands on. Once you get your gear, you head out and put yourself in the level of risk vs reward that you can handle. No one expects to go into the dragons lair when they do not have the gear/skill/ability to achieve the reward.

If dragons could randomly attack you when you have zero plans on fighting dragons then players would gear for that. Specially if those dragons could fully loot you.

Your example doesn't match up. Because not all of those "best of the best that wear the best" are looking for dragons they are looking to full loot. If you can't see the problem with this. Then you have not played games like Darkfall and watched it kill itself due to new player retention.

This is a business, pitting the veteran up against the new players is a good thing. Allowing situations where veterans can keep new players from succeeding is a bad thing. This is just as important as not allowing a dragon to do the same.

 

I think people will PvP in whatever gear they're comfortable losing. Don't see why it has to be more complicated than that.

 

If it was simply about PvP then that's all that would matter. It's never just about PvP.

In the controlled environment of arenas and battlegrounds full loot can be normalized and tailored to those that enter. It brings in a different issue though. Why do they PvP when they risk full loot. If replacing that loot take no time then why loot it. If replacing that loot takes too long why PvP. Offer some incentive then there must be balance so not to force people that do not wish to PvP to have to PvP.

Add the open PvP factor and now you overly complicate the picture. Player skill, access to gear, play time, ability/desire to work with others, list can go on and on. This still doesn't factor in all the other aspects of the game, the different types of content, crafting and economy.

Everything is touched by full loot. Containing it to battleground style hexes removes the open world portion. The more it's opened up to the point of full open PvP the more full loot PvP will overrun everything. Just as it did in pre Tram UO.

A durability/death based system, as described by the devs, keeps the control in the devs hands and not in the PvPers hands.

And if that's the underlying reasons to want full loot, PvPers want to control everything, the devs will win that fight, they want the control and they are not going to make the mistake of letting PvP take it away, which was the case in pre Tram UO.

 

Simple, EVE! When you kill someone most of their "eq" are destroyed.

Anyhow, SotA will have durability and at some point your eq will be boying repair. So in the end it won't matter if you are PvE or PvP you will break your eq and need to buy new one and there by contribute to the economy equally.

 

but where would be the fun and the reason to not add loot that the guy who loot it get satisfied and can melt it back to metal

 

In the controlled environment of arenas and battlegrounds full loot can be normalized and tailored to those that enter

who want full loot in the arena, its the only place where player not want to have loot , because they go there to have longer pvp fights and training . open world should be full loot

 

Do you know how hard it is to remove a chainmail from a dead body? I have tried to do that on a analog to a dead body and that is no easy task so why would you be able to remove it?

 

yeah pots weapons and bandages you should be able to loot fast armor take some time so it can be interrupted ,would make sense. but make it unlootable is something i would not like.

i once wrote an idea hit a player ko , you can loot sword pots bandages, resorces. if you execute him you can loot all but get a murdercount

 

Do we have any input from the devs about smelting? I know this is not really a fair question because the devs have not entertained the full loot topic so smelting loot from PvP is not really in context. Smelting is not a PvP mechanic though. The act of smelting is a secondary choice and not required or enforceable.

Would it be any different if you see a loot that is 2-3 items and the rest is broken gear that can be salvaged or smelted?

In case it hasn't been seen or pointed out, it's not that I do not understand you perspective and point. My suggestion on the subject fits very well with everything you are asking as far as the looting of PvP players goes.

Time based loot suggestion.

Exactly, you have created some kind of haven withing the arena where there is no desire for full loot. Why is that? Because the game play the arena players want is a structured battle that they can plan for and around.

PvP is not one play style. There are several styles with many combinations of those styles. Crossing the style is the goal here.

This is the same for PvE. Many styles and many combinations of those styles.

Some style do not mix well. Some players will want to explore and quest. Others could care less about any of that, they just want to get in and fight with anyone and anything. Put the fighter in a position to attack someone exploring and questing and you can either have exciting gameplay for both or very very one sided gameplay. The one sided situation ends up with the attacker getting everything and the attacked ending their day in frustration. Someone just blocked them from doing what they wished to enjoy.

It's not about fear, it's about freedom to play the game. Your freedom to attack anyone is their freedom to not be attacked so they can do what they want.

The solution, optional open PvP.

Why they are not going with full loot is not tied to why they are not going full open PvP. Optional PvP is easy to explain. They will either choose in game or they will choose at purchase.

Full loot spans much much more. Which is why I stand my my time based loot suggestion. It allows the devs to maintain their control on how much loss is tied to death (limiting the number of items looted) At the same time it give the looter the power to take what interest them most. It also adds a strategy element.

The cost of death is very important. The devs can not control full loot cost of death and keep people in their best gear. If people have too much down time from death the pain of death becomes too costly. If death is not costly enough it becomes part of the strategy and that is just as bad, if not worse.

 

There are many people who prefer a game where the reality of the world your in dictates the rules.
Where as many prefer a world based on what people are comfortable with.
I'm not saying that's what Portalarium set out to do but I do look forward towards a sandbox game
based on more realism. It will take an unwavering team to offer an experience like that.
I think that's why survival games have become so popular.

I'm not sure if it has ever been proven that you can compromise yet preserve the full loot experience.
And its not just about full loot. Its about making a fantasy world as realistic as possible where its possible.
The hopes for a game with full loot and more realism is for far more reasons then simply some sinister
desire to take ones loot.

I would look forward to a gaming experience that isn't based around my feelings
and comfort level but based on the reality of the world. I think the more a game goes down this road
the more immersive. I think the design philosophy of SOTA was based on a more realistic world for the
sake of immersion in many ways. No mini maps and so on. A game where you gotta figure stuff out and
don't have an arrow pointing you around or exclamation marks above peoples heads. Perhaps the line
has been drawn when it comes to full loot and that decision is Portalariums to make.

I think there is a potential for many different gaming experience that aren't based on peoples feelings
and comfort level but rather based on the reality of a world. I think the notion that you can compromise
and still offer the same experience is yet to be proven. Compromised games should be in a category of their own.
And the more compromised games become, the less variety of experiences in the gaming world.
The idea that people who enjoy full loot are just unwilling to comprise is interesting because there
are very few games that offer full loot. Yet there is an abundance of compromised games.

That being said, I look forward to SOTA and I think they are breaking the mold in many ways.
And from what I heard Ristra point out, I think there are some interesting ideas floating around
to make a compromised game a better experience for those who prefer an uncompromised experience.

 

Ristra said - "Full loot players will never wear their best gear. They will wear gear they do not care about."

Dont speak for all of us Ristra! I will wear my best gear and if you have cheap gear on, guess what? i will more than likely beat you in a battle because of that! I for one will wear my best and use my best.
Dont put words in anyone elses mouths! I believe you told me that more than once! " Ristra will not wear the best gear is a better statement" That also looks bad, for you. Afraid to lose stuff much afraid of risk?
I think that is the difference, "emotionally distressed" will not wear their best gear and will die a lot more(be grieved because of it), but the best of the best will wear the best and win many more.
Hence the reason i would never want to play with someone afraid to lose their stuff! If all i hear is "omg!, omg! omg! i lost my stuff!" , crying and moaning about it! At that point those players are now grieving me, in my PVP world. SO to all you "emotionally distressed" players out there, who cry and moan because you dont want to lose your stuff or cant accept it, please dont engage with me in game.
The only thing that will happen is you will whine and moan so much, i may have to keep killing you off until, #1. you start dealing with it and understand its just a game, or #2. go play pve! You will only be grieving yourself in PVP!

Im sorry but if your not wearing your best you are showing how scared you are of losing it! Which is just a risk you take in PVP. Just like if in PVE you run into a dragons lair and it wipes you, then you can lose stuff, moan and groan to the Devs/ monsters and grief no one but yourself!

 

how do you generically speak by saying you!? talking to me?

Yes i will honestly put in 2 months or buy a set from one of my vendors! im laughing at this! I havent imposed any rules on anyone! It seems to me Partial PVP, and PVE are trying to tell us PVP, how we should play and imposing rules on us! Just because your afraid of losing your nice gear set you will flaunt around town, but not in the real battle, people like that are a joke to me and i would probably hunt them down, lucky for you and them you have an option to opt out of PVP! Im so sick and tired of people telling us PVPrs how to play that are afraid in the first place to go into pvp in case they lose their bragging gear (which by the way i would take from you, out of spite! because generally speaking when i say you, refers to anyone who brags and flaunts thief stuff) I hope i cleared that up for you! get off the dragon general statement already! Dragons was an example, please re read my last post. Personally i havent seen any dragons yet. i wish you would stop telling me what I will do, tell you what ill do what i want, and again i will be wearing my best! You may not but that will be your loss! I will still support full loot, even though, because of people like you we wont get it! there's a fact i think they also get tired of all the whining as well. Im so used to ristra, you dont even phase me anymore but like you i will also have my say in matters, never to force it on others. If you dont want full loot fine, but i want it and others want it as wellm so you need to deal with that as much as we need to deal with you!

 

Again, you turn everything into all about you and how you PvP. Guess what, you are not the only PvPer and how you PvP is not how everyone will PvP.

You attack my post as if I was talking about YOUR way of PvP. I speak generically and you turn it into a blight on your one perspective. Which is an IMPOSSIBLE perspective to conform an entire game to.

Why do I say impossible? Because I wanna see you try to keep playing when you spend 2 months getting ready for PvP then lose it in the first fight. Then instead of PvPing in cheap gear you wait 2 more months to get the best gear again. I call BS. You will be in that cheap gear.

I in know way tell you how to PvP. If anything I am telling you how others PvP, which you seem to want to ignore as something that should be taking into account when designing the game.

For every one person that is respectful while they are kicking your face in there is a list of others that a taking the rules of the game and exploiting as much as they can for what ever angle they wish.

Your dragon example was straight forward and not complicated. My dragon example was about the high end PvPers being the same as dragons. Let me know when you can see the difference bewteen a NPC Dragon and a high end PvPer.

You PvP how you want. When I am making a post I am talking about PvPers that are going to min/max what ever system and could care less about your way of PvP. ANY post I make on PvP assumes YOU, specifically you, and your way of PvP is left intact.

You RP your PvP do you think there are others out there that could care less about RP? If my post doesn't fit you, then it's not about you. Move on.

But don't expect me to believe that when a death penalty puts you in a choice of sitting out of PvP for an excessive amount of time you will keep playing without PvP. No, you will do what ever it takes to get back in there with what you have available to you. I know this because I have see you post as much.

It's not about how you PvP or anyone telling you how you PvP. Apparently you need to be told that not everyone PvPs like you.

 

Ristra said - "Gearing for the world is based on what gear you can get your hands on. Once you get your gear, you head out and put yourself in the level of risk vs reward that you can handle. No one expects to go into the dragons lair when they do not have the gear/skill/ability to achieve the reward.

If dragons could randomly attack you when you have zero plans on fighting dragons then players would gear for that. Specially if those dragons could fully loot you.

heres the level of risk vs reward for you ristra - if you CHOOSE PVP full loot then that is what youll get, so dont tell me about level of risk vs reward, based on YOUR skill, gear and ability, It is a choice you will make on your own! and then youll have only yourself to blame.

Ristra said - As expected, I mention PvP generically and you come in and impose your unrealistic rules on the entire post. Just because YOU will not loot what you do not need does not mean everyone else will be the same.

2 things here Ristra, what unrealistic rules are you talking about im imposing on entire post? Everything is by choice (if you pick full loot pvp that is on you) everything i mention in this forum is based on having the option to opt out if you dont like it! (please keep that in mind)

Also Keep in mind everything you type is YOUR own opinion! maybe some share your beliefs maybe some do not, so i leave this here for you so you know how all of us PVP full loot people feel,

 

Avoided the most important part I see.

When you lose all your stuff. Do you stop PvP or do you get the first, best, set of gear and get back to it. What if that gear is not even close to the best available. Do you sit out of PvP until you can get the best?

 

If I didn't have the best gear I wouldn't fly solo. There are so many posibilitys just like in the real world for how you can go about things.
You may join a militia or guild. Whatever the problem is you are facing it will take a lot more thought and everything will become more meaningful
if there is something to lose. The first time I ever appreciated rat pelts was in a pvp world where you die and your dead. You really start to appreciate
everything in a world where you have something to lose. Everything becomes more meaningfull from the crafters to those that make sacrifices.

 

oh i definitely wont be wearing the cheap stuff, you see Ristra i am a PVPr, and that is my prerogative so you are talking about someone you cannot even begin to understand. A true PVP player! You are telling me what you have experienced others playing like, i have experienced some of the same but mostly not how you and others paint a pvpr! You make us all sound like the only thing we care about is ganking some poor noob, but you are oh so wrong! Just for the record if someone comes into PVP no matter what type and whines and complains that grieves others! Its not just being ganked over and over, which could possibly be the reason why those others keep getting ganked over and over!
Its hard to believe some of the things you even typed, considering you appear to be clueless to what PVP is all about and what it means to each of us! Really!? on RP, you dont think we RP our PVP players? We do ! My guy wanders the roads and helps the helpless, heals the wounded and reigns fire down on the pkr "Bad guy, evil doer, etc..) that is how i roll play my full loot pvp.
Here this sentence makes me laugh....
(But don't expect me to believe that when a death penalty puts you in a choice of sitting out of PvP for an excessive amount of time you will keep playing without PvP. No, you will do what ever it takes to get back in there with what you have available to you. I know this because I have see you post as much.)
ohh so hard core! I

REAL pvp people have back up armor and weapons all the time! I know, i always did! are you actually gonna sit here and try to school me on PVP?? Wake up and smell the coffee! From what i can gather based on what you have typed over the time here Ristra likes pvp as long as you dont lose anything, dont have to work to get things! and as long as everything is ristras way (partial pvp, ransom, etc.) Does Ristra know that its all optional? Or is that too much to handle? You can stay in your perfect world, but please dont come ruin mine!

if i dont have my good stuff it is because someone took it from my body after they killed me! if i dont have the best gear yes i will wear my second best and go after them, and take all they have on them if i drop them! but in my down time i will try to acquire the same good gear i had before , whether that means i need to RP to an armorer somewhere, or go on a quest somewhere to get it. there you go im RPing and im playing the story!

 

it was coming i had to make sure i didnt have anything that could be Moderated! you go with what you got for the time! but i dont go out there in my cheapest gear unless i have no choice!

 

This kind of grouping does not change the cost of death. Even groups can get killed and looted.

Best gear possible is one cost of death. Best gear available is a very different cost of death. If its too hard to maintain the best possible then it becomes unused because the risk is too high. Well, the exception is blaquerogue will be wearing the best possible all the time. Even if he must sit out of PvP for months to get that gear.

Everyone that chooses to PvP chooses it, got it. How they PvP and how the economy settles around how they PvP is not their choice, it's a product of balance. Path of least resistance - human nature - the devs build PvP around this.