The Combat System....

Hello Majoria! I believe I read that you played Vanguard. If so that's awesome because that makes my answer so much easier lol.

I think a big issue with the combat system as it is now is not even the card system. I believe a lot of it has to do with not all of the skills being active for one which also means a lot of combos are not in game at this moment as well. We still have skills not 'turned on'. Also, the animations I hope are not set in stone and final because they could be improved for better immersion. Combat animation is vital in combat feeling good.

But even if all those skills are turned on and the animations are brought up to par, the card system has to go. The devs, in my eyes, are trying to create a very realistic immersive mmo so what better to ruin that immersion than to have your combat system revolve around this card system and the possibility of having RANDOM abilities. There has never been ONE SINGLE fight in the history of mankind that came down to the combatants using a deck of cards to randomly select their next attack. It's just not realistic.

Second, I love having NUMEROUS roles in an mmo. TANK, HEALER, DPS, PULLER, CROWD CONTROL and whatever else the mind can come up with. So I'd love to see more of that. This may be more difficult than fixing the card system because to implement a 'pulling' role you'd need to have the skills available but also the mobs AI would have to accommodate for the role. Mob's would need pathing patterns, grouping patterns, resistances, etc for a 'puller' to be effective. EQ1 and Vanguard were the only games *I've* played to have use for pulling so it is far in few in between mmo's although I have heard a realm reborn makes use of pulling which is cool if you ask me.

I actually HAVE seen some skills in game that accommodate for crowd control which is awesome but I feel that skill set is limited.

I haven't played much of the game because the combat is just bad right now which goes to show that combat is VERY important to some so much that they won't play the game if it's not fixed. That doesn't mean the dev's vision for the combat system is bad/wrong. It just means there is not enough of the final product in the game atm. I'm sure the animations will be cleaned up. It's obvious more skills and combos will be added (I'm REALLY hoping for a TREMENDOUS amount of combos to be added to the game because they just blow the skill tree WIDE open) to the game. But one thing is for certain, there should be no randomness to combat and just the idea of cards and combat makes me cringe a little.

Lastly, I love having LOTS of abilities! LOTS of hotbars and skillslots! And I know some MMOs are trying to shy away from that these days along with SotA but I'd at least like to see a bigger hotbar. It doesn't have to be EQ status but even Elder Scrolls Online with it's dual 5slot hotbar (total of 10 abilities but you swap from 5 to 5) is limited to me. I like having options!

I know this is a novel but HEY you asked lol

 

I know that sometimes its confusing for some, but in the focus tree you can expand your hand whether you use locked glyphs or not to the size of 10 as well as reduce the focus cost by 25% (for locked decks). The ability to have the cards available is a planned feature for the locked deck and more costly (in terms of points and less total skills available in combat) and the trade off against the random deck with combos because its intended to be harder to play the random deck. There is an trade off for security vs risk.

Edited for clarity. (I just woke up lol)

 

LOL and wow you must have been reading a lot to know I played Vanguard. I loved my desciple, also my Warrior although she was very tough to play and challenged me every second to play. Thank you for voicing your thoughts. I do know animations will be cleaned up, also UI will. Sometimes silence from the team is a good thing. One day we will get answers. What has been done so far in animations has been terrific. I love the sing emote for example no sound atm, but who knows. It is difficult to come from combat you loved as in Vanguard, which sadly has been taken offline, to compare, but I'm sure SOTA will find a way to pull this off. I am one who has confidence in believing that they are listening to us. We have a very talented development team even though it is small.

**edited**

 

The one system suits all doesn't exist at all, saying they can do x instead of y because everyone likes x is kinda ridiculous.

I'm slightly apathetic towards the current system because the actual combat is so clunky, I see the potential and the pitfalls but I can't tell which out weighs which until is more developed, at which point it will be hard to change course.

I hope they stick to their guns, I see no major concerns within my circle about the combat system that can't be eeked out in later iterations.

 

Yeah, I find it weird that probably the biggest change our community has helped make was a complete graphical overhaul of the map, yet graphics are something that can be 'overlooked'. No, never going to agree on that at all. To me, a clunky combat system is something I can overlook, but if my eyes had to put up with a cloth map or my ears have to put up with the poor sound effects in game right now (not music, thats spot on) then that won't be overlooked, my senses are some of the most important things when it comes to enjoying a game, if what I look and see are not enjoyable, then I am sure as hell not going to try and focus on the core game mechanics.
Also using 8 bit as some kind of negative, like oh even 8 bit games are popular, yes, thats because its a graphical style that appeals to the retro/nostalgia, they shouldn't be seen as regressive or in any kind of negative light. In the same vein that wows cartoony graphics are considered superior by many to the ultra realistic mmos like ESO, graphical style is completely different to having good/bad graphics.

 

It's this attitude that I had when the deck system first came online so many moons ago.

We are here almost a year later and I'm sorry, but nothing has changed - the battle system, minus the addition of new skills, plays identically, does it not? Keep in mind I love the founding idea and the activity of deckbuilding itself is awesome, but it's just ... not very fun to play.

We're coming up on alpha and beta pretty soon. There's not very much wiggle room left for a reworking of the combat system. What people (yourself included) seem to be arguing is that in it's current state, combat is ready for release. If you aren't saying this, then you need to help out by giving the devs suggestions as how they can best "eek out" your "not-so-major concerns" before it's too late. [I have major concerns about crafting, as well. At the moment it's image-based spreadsheet management. These will be voiced loudly when crafting events are finally implemented.]

All I'm saying is that in less than a year, with keep in mind less than probably 80 hours played, I'm already so sick of dealing with glyph arrangement and slugs and the poor interface overall that I didn't even bother logging in long enough the last couple releases to get the hats. How are you going to feel come release? How about for episode 2? episode 3? Episode 5? What if your not-major concerns are still not eeked by then?

I've seen a butt-ton of games pre-launch. I know enough from personal experience that if the combat interface isn't cleaned up and made more accessible and easier to control then this game will review mediocre at best and die out long before episode 2 is due.

 

There is absolutely tons of wiggle room.

Whoa, hell no, where did that come from, the UI is horrid, the combat is jarring, clunky and unintuitive with horrible repetitive sounds and a total lack of impact. There isn't a single bit of this game that is ready for release.

Others have put it far more succinctly than I could, most important, sort out the 2001 style UI. I'm not one of these people saying don't give negative feedback, thats probably the most important feedback to give when developing the game.

 

I think he was referring to time available to change it. Considering the game was supposed to launch (for the second time) in August-September, and then again (third time) this November, that doesn't leave a lot of "wiggle room" for changing this system and building out the rest of the game (which is basically empty right now), plus all the town systems and NPC schedules, and still flesh out skills and then balance them all, and balance them with two different UIs that need to be updated and balanced against themselves. That's less than 6 months to go "pre-alpha" to launch with a team the size of Portalarium.

We all know that won't happen, but not because they're gonna' spend months on combat and the UI. What you see now is likely going to be what you have in the game at launch. They simply aren't going to make much money this year to continue indefinitely working on this game, no matter what spin they feed us, like "we're launch when you think we're ready." The hype train's already come and gone.

 

They made $6,000,000 up to 16 March and we're not even finishing April and they have made another $200,000, I'm no financial expert but that doesn't seem like an insignificant amount, I think your analyses is baseless.

 

They're 100% behind schedule with further delays slated. Big backers have come out and said, on these very forums, they won't drop another penny on this game until after launch. The bulk of their money came from the honeymoon period of the Kickstarter and the hype train. If you think this game is going to continue getting big bucks, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in.

 

I believe a focus on combat is comming in this quarter. It would be a good idea for them to have all the skills in before doing any balancing or polishing.

Active Cover is on its way and, i THINK, the rest of the shield skills, and a rework of Archery is stated for either 18 or 19,
And the chaos tree is still virtually untouched but i think it is also planned to be filled out in this quarter.

As far as the combat system goes, I'm enjoying Deck combat over the traditional hotbar combat. My only gripe with it is that it tends to distract me heavily from the fight sometimes, but that seems like its jsut one of the drawbacks of playing with Deck vs Locked.

Locked combat works well if you are planned before a fight and/or filling a very specific role. Where Deck combat is more Fast Paced and alot of real focus is required, but you potentially spend less skill points on actual skills than you do in a beefed up Locked bar, and have the potential to execute attacks much quicker.

 

I'll say my last part on this because its verging OT, being behind schedule is irrelevant when you earnt another 5 million dollars than you were originally looking for and are still earning $200,000 a month, especially as pretty much everyone who wants this game has already got the game, they aren't going to see a ton of people running out to buy copies of the game at release. You're skills in economics are astoundingly poor.

This is where I need a skill bar that I can move/add to, I have an add on in wow that lets me put some spells that have annoying CDs more in my line of sight so I can see them better.

 

As long as the revenue is going to the development of SotA, I wouldn't mind moving to Arizona. ;-)
After all, "The ocean is a desert, with its life underground, And a perfect disguise above"

 

They aren't earning $200,000 a month, that's the thing. This has nothing to do with economics, but with evaluating what this game has to offer (or rather, doesn't) and the gaming market it's releasing into. And, hey, easy on the Kool-Aid, it isn't great for your blood sugar in such large quantities.

 

Oct-March 2015 $1 million dollars raised= an average of 200k/month, march to april 200k raised, you're welcome to do your own maths though.

I'll just put you on the ignore list seeing as you can't discuss things without ad hominem attacks at the end, and your analyses of finances is based on nothing but your evaluating the game from your narrow view and the market and not actually looking at budgets and cost of development and how SoTa is funded, which is not through release day sales but through pre-release investment and continual updates/add ons to the gamestore, this game releasing late doesn't affect their income anywhere near as much as your typical game release.

 

...

So.

You agree the combat interface is horrid and there are a lot of things in the game that need a reworking.
Yet you are arguing against discussion on how to rework things.

You change the discussion from "how can we improve things" to "this is a waste of time, the devs have money, it will be fixed".
This is not constructive.

 

You can move the hotbar in game right now. but for me it just that my fingers can only reach 1-5 on the keyboard so it makes me think i gotta get a speed-pad or a mouse with a bunch of buttons before i can stop clicking and dragging to fight.
Either that or conserve skillpoints by dropping only 1 level into the hotbar skill on the focus tree

 

You mean the general videogame market? If so there are niche games that offer what cookie cutter games dont that thrive off people looking for specific things cookie cutters dont offer.

 

SotA isn't offering anything different that other games don't do better, whether they're indie or large AAA publishers. They're wading into generic fantasy (most saturated gaming genre) MMO territory (most competitive gaming market) with nothing to blow away the competition. They're also wading into generic fantasy (again, most saturated gaming genre) single player (where POTs and "community" doesn't matter) with nothing to blow away the competition. It's going to take more than clicking keywords on quest givers, NPCs that wander towns lighting lamps and community customized street names to overcome 2D tree walls, a controversial card combat system and tiny, instanced maps to "explore" enough to compete in either market. It can be niche, fine, if it does something industry-changing. Look at survivalist games, for example, extremely niche and extremely profitable.

SotA isn't breaking any new ground with any system in the game, though. That doesn't mean it can't be a fun game, but when the mechanics are humdrum, overdone or controversial, you made an archaic niche game one that will only be enjoyed by the loyal few. And the loyal few won't pay for Episode 2 by themselves.

 

Might I recommend a job in politics, because only a politician has the skills to turn this

in to this "Yet you are arguing against discussion on how to rework things."

Bravo, bravo, ifi said my favourite colour was red, you'd argue I said it was blue.

What...like what? I'm not even the one who brought up the finances first, and at no point did I say its a waste of time, are you absolutely kidding me, you must have gone through some serious mental gymnastics to reach these complete and utter misrepresentations of my position, I would actually prefer ad hominem than flat out lies.

Thats twice you've done this now, where you somehow managed to make

in to me saying the combat is ready for release now, just stop, its aggravating when you lie and makes this about me discussing my position and not the topic at hand.

Lets be absolutely clear, the combat system needs work but I like the ideas of the deck system, discuss, give constructive feedback (as I already said) negative or positive. The UI is dated, the tuning is off and the impact feels weightless, carry on.