[Proposal]Open Loot Compromise In A PvP System

I personally think that's going too far in terms of choices... Sure, we should have the game how we want it with SM, but choosing between open and non open should be enough.

 

For every box you check, the amount of people it's possible to meet/come in contact with shrinks more and more..

 

It's crucial to remember when responding to someone else's PvP choices, they WANT to reduce the number of people they can possibly come in contact with. The only choice the dev's, and through them, the community has, is if they will avoid coming in contact with people by checking the box, using the slider, hitching up their underwear, or whatever other IN GAME system is offered, or avoid those people by avoiding the game they are in.

Neither version benefits all of the PvP players, or conforms to any of our "ideal" views, but one of them DOES benefit the game in general, and for many of the players in question, there isn't a third option.

 

Just because I feel a little unclear about this, and I think defining this will also help all of our understanding of how things may work... (I say may because nothing official in detail has been released.)

The system for OPO mode, as described in Kickstart, says that

So.. am I correct in understanding this to mean that the data connecting players will often connect people directly to eachother instead of servers, and that this will limit the max number of players you can see in an area anyways? Which, if this is the case, since there will already be limits, then I suppose it makes sense that more check boxes means a higher likelyhood that all the players you end up with in your area do the same type of gaming that you do, hence the whole being connected to people "you care the msot about based on what we believe is their relevance to you" bit. Yes?

Or have I completely misunderstood the idea behind direct connections, using peoples computers as 'servers' idea?

 

Depends on whether or not seeing players with different rules is allowed or not. And even then this only comes to play if there is not enough players with the same rules to fill the instance.

I would trim down that list somewhat, though:

- Duels can have an "auto decline" UI toggle without segregating players. Anyone that attempts to duel a player that doesn't want to duel simply gets his request denied, and the other player never even sees the attempt.
- Arena and battleground fights, IMHO, don't need a toggle; they can just be entered through in-game ways.
- I believe it would be better to combine thieves with full loot. To my eyes, at least, they are similar enough that keeping them as independent options doesn't make sense. I might be wrong and biased due to how much I dislike both, though.
- While guild wars and open PvP should have different toggles, I don't think they should segregate players.

 

I think that is what duels should be for - to let people try their hand and PvP without being committed to open PvP. Same with arena matches, PvP quests, and guild wars - all are steps along the path to open PvP, for those who aren't sure if they want open PvP.

 

Full loot. No flag, its a open world. So, if you're out you're on your own.

Its nice to keep in mind that UO was not a item-based game.

 

It has been done with many games throughout history, UO being one of the best.

There is a chasm of games out there that offer some form of alternative - PvP with absolutely no risk, and likewise, no reward. This game strives to re-invent the wheel, I can't see such a common recipe being used in a dish at RG's table.

It made sense then, It still makes sense today, 15 years later.

 

Agreed, I am hoping we dont see more of the same recipese with reguards to PvP and looting as we have seen in many of the "ho-hum, here today gone tomorrow" MMO's. But seems like a lot of people cant think outside the box on that.

UO full loot worked cause it wasnt as Slinker pointed out and item based game. I am assuming RG will not be making an item based game were you need to "grind" to get good gear... you just go to your local blacksmith for that or make it yourself.

 

The last worthwhile game that forced pvp and full loot on everyone, darkfall, didn't do too well.. It did OKAY but not as good as what RG&co are shooting for. It is a bad business move on their part, and that is exactly what they are trying to avoid.

Tim, whether you like it or not, you will not be able to gank new players as it seems that it what you want.. You will HOPEFULLY be able to play in an open pvp world with worthy opponents with players like Owain, myself and many, many others though.

 

Eve online... *cough*

I dont PvP... Im a PvE'er... BUT if someone wants to try and "gank" me I am up for the challenge. You will NOT be able to gank noobs in SotA anyway. LB has made that clear.

 

We still haven't seen how the "come back from death" mechanism will work, or what it's story will be. I'm assuming some form of magick, at which point all bets are off.

If it's Lord British ressurecting you with a spell (just for example) then what's to prevent him from transporting all your gear to the ressurection? If the Avatar's soul climbs back into the ruined body and wakes it up / heals it, then why would the gear be missing?

If on the other hand a NEW body is being made, more like a cloning system, then there is no reason I know of why it WOULD have any equipment, and all gathered goods would be lost out in the field somewhere.

It all really depends on why and how we come back from death.

 

Eve online is not necessarily a RP game.. Call of duty is forced pvp also, if you want to take it that route.

 

And on top of that.. Just like I said, and you just reiterated again..

YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO "GANK NOOBS" BECAUSE OF SELECTIVE MULTIPLAYER, TIM. Therefore, "SELECT" how YOU want to play your "MULTIPLAYER" game and stop trying to convince everyone who could care less about your outspoken opinion that you NEED this.

You get to choose how you want to play.. So you get your "ORP" environment. And on top of that, I will gladly add you to my friends list and hunt you down with a smile on my face. That is part of the ORP experience, am I right?

 

WHAT!!
No way! If I bash some NPC's skull in at anytime I want to freely pick all their loot off of their corpse. I shouldnt have to gm a skill to "maybe" get a chance to pick em clean. NPC's dont care. But I sure do! hehehehehehe. Human NPC slaughtering is something I find fun to do once in awhile when im bored. Like those fighters in the dueling pits in UO. I got so mad when they quit allowing you to loot their armour and stuff! I was able to sell it and make some pretty good gold off them. You used to even be able to steal from the NPC's and make a good income. But they closed all that up wich I hated! That was the end of the "trammel theif" right there! Once that all happened you were first into this hardcore PvP environment if you wanted to slay other "humans" or steal from them or prey upon other humansin any way because.... *gulp* your only victims were actual players! Player characters kick my A**! Dont matter if I have played the game months or years longer than the other player im almost garunteed to die against another player. So I stick to NPC's Mwahahahaha!
Shouldnt be anything wrong with that though. Hell, if I just had a hard challenging day at work, (and my job makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes) last thing I want to do is come home to be challenged when I play the game. Sure I have my moments where I get bored and im willing to head over to the PvP world and im willing to play on the "dangerous side" but it usually involves me stealthing around and scavenging other corpses and stuff and not making much money. Its just exciting because im watching people get murdered and stuff and im hoping to get a little something myself from someone els's death. When I get caught I just like to focus on escaping because trying to fight a player just is too much. Gets me too worked up and stuff.
So basically thats why I enjoy being a villain to NPC's! Its easy(well, not always but it shouldnt be any more challenging then doing PVE as a good guy against monsters), they dont care if you loot them so theres no need to debate too much wether or not I should be able to kill them and pick them clean whenever I want(Maybe a little, it got pretty nasty what they did to trammel theives and human NPC slayers).

Interesting... I love open loot too as a scavenger its pretty great! I myself dont care if what I scavenge is actually a player's loot though. As long as I can double click their corpse to see a box full of goodies and I can pick it clean its pretty fun! Of course I want it to be profitable, and the loot to be good and all. What im saying is, couldnt dead bodies just contain randomly generated loot that isnt actually that player's REAL loot? I mean whats the big deal? You still profit off bashing your enemy's face in. You can still be like "hahaha look at the goodies I got when i looted you" when you see them rez in town or something. The quality of the gold, loot, and resources generated could be based on how high that person's skill level or how old his account is or how many players he has killed maybe.
Would this be satisfying enough for full loot?? I think it might be a pretty good compromise between the people who want full loot and the people who dont want it. For me its perfect! Besides this game is all fun and make beleive right? Cant we pretend/make beleive that we are grabbing all some poor sap's loot after crushing his friggin skull?

 

Oh come on im sure we are all guilty of bashing a newb at some point in our MMO careers. =P Sure, its gonna come to an end with SOTA more than likely. But just like using all the exploits and hacks and stuff that were in the early MMO's were pretty entertaining. You gotta admit you must of had your fair share of yucks and chuckles pwning newbs!

 

I'm not. I didn't pwn noobs. I typically only went to places where new players weren't at. Like, the bottom of Hythloth. Nothing like waiting around in there to stab the crap out of someone when they think it's going to be a nice evening of demon hunting.


Picking on noobs is like fishing with dynamite.

the upside to hiding is I could tell if the person coming was a new guy or not. There were plenty of times I'd end up helping the new guy survive his Indiana Jones-esque fleeing from the depths of Wrong or Deceit because he shouldn't have been down there, but had to see what was there!



One time I'll never forget is when this guy showed up at the fire temple, ran in the doors on the bottom to get away from the crap chasing him, only to get killed by all the stuff IN the temple.

I ended up going down and looting his body and ran to the healer that I knew he'd be running to. I didn't really want to see him repeatedly run in there trying to get his stuff back only to get wacked.


He's like:

"Oh great. You steal my stuff and now you're going to res kill me. *insert swearing* Get a life."

and I dropped his stuff in trade window and said "If I wanted to kill sissies, I'd go kill mongbats."

Then I was nice enough to give him a boat ride back to somewhere that wouldn't get him slaughtered because he ended up there via a gate in the first place and had no magic.

I didn't either, because magic was for sissies too. Axes weren't.


I explained to him the risks of going in gates you didn't open yourself, and told him you generally want to run away from temples with demons on top... not into them.

Walked him all the way to Despise and said "Try this place instead", and left.

 

Darkfall is a moot comparison in my opinion. It offers a particularly rare form of pvp and consequences (by todays standards), but that is ALL it offers. Darkfall falls short in every other aspect, and especially in maintaining balance between new players versus old vets.

The key to SotA, just as UO, in my opinion, is in balance. We need RP'ers, we need murderers, we need Justification enforcers, we need every flavor of player possible and UO (hopefully SotA) will support all of them without bias. Let me tell you I absolutely love pvp, in most games I only participate in PvE as a means to an end. I need better skills and loot to PvP with. I will never sit here and pretend that as a PvPer I don't care about the rest of the game. I need crafters to buy swords to pvp with. I need rp'ers to make my pvp more flavorful (orcs anyone?), I need a freaking fisherman, because I want fish steaks to keep me fed and avoid fizzles. There is a "circle of neccesity" in the game that simply hasn't been recreated by Darkfall or any other game for that matter in the last 15 years.

The thing about UO (and hopefully SotA) is that is offers such a diverse amount of potential actions and reactions resulting in a vast amount of possible roles to fill and things to do.

In conclusion, Darkfall isn't doing so well. You cannot however blame it on a single variable, there are many reasons why the game isn't hugely successful and appears it never will be.

 

How

How fortunate for us all that no one is forcing pvp and full loot on everyone. Open PvP and full loot, if available, will be at the pinnacle of the PvP ladder, with MANY options available below that.

 

Agreed. Trust me dude, I want everyone to be forced into full loot/pvp just as much as the next guy.. But more than that, I want the game to succeed greatly.. So if that means that everyone gets the option for it instead of being forced, and i still get open pvp/loot, that's fine by me.

But I don't agree that there should be more option other than open pvp/full loot and non open. Just the two should be enough